
Sony HDR-SR12E VS Sony HDR-HC9E
#1
Posted 21 April 2008 - 12:56 AM
i am about to buy a video camera for my underwater videography, i am so confused witch cam i buy, i guess the HDR-SR12E is more featured but its a hard disk and im not sure its gonna give me the same quality as the tape camera, besides im afraid the hard disk to crash!
http://www.sony-mea....site=hp_en_ME_i
http://www.sony-mea....site=hp_en_ME_i
so what do you think and witch camera i should go for?
thank you
#2
Posted 21 April 2008 - 03:59 AM
Go for a normal HDV 25mbps mpeg2 1440/1080 tape camera if you can.
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos | www.flykam.com.au
#3
Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:11 AM
Not so fast...The AVCHD codec is even more compressed than 25mbps HDV.
Go for a normal HDV 25mbps mpeg2 1440/1080 tape camera if you can.
Although the SR12 runs the AVCHD codec at 16 Mbps, it's a higher-efficiency codec than HDV. The SR12 is one of a few new cameras that bring AVCHD up to par with (or better than!) HDV in terms of visual quality. Furthermore, the SR12 uses a new sensor with far better noise reduction characteristics in low light.
The camcorderinfo.com review of the SR12 actually puts it on a pedestal above the HC9. Specifically, they say:
"[The SR12] is undoubtedly the sensor/processor package to own if you’re a Sony fan. The low light performance is excellent – far superior in noise reduction to the Sony HDR-HC9, its HDV cousin."
I tend to trust their reviews, so it would seem that the SR12 is definitely worth considering.
Kris
#4
Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:17 AM
With AVCHD, there is still a need to convert to a 3rd codec to edit because of the MPEG4 compression. HDV needs to be done that way too for best results.
Further to hard disk crashes is backing up. Tape acts as a natural archive whereas AVCHD will always be dependent on drives. Something else to consider.
Drew
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#5
Posted 21 April 2008 - 08:10 AM
This is a common complaint and may be a serious consideration. However, I've yet to see direct comparison footage of the same scene with both codecs. Do you know of any such sample footage? Have you observed the difference yourself? I wonder at what level of movement the artifacting begins to manifest itself compared to HDV. And what does it look like compared to HDV artifacting.Well AVCHD at 16mbps is more efficient but the encoding suffers when motion is high, like on a busy reef scene or surface sea shots where even HDV breaks down.
Unless the codec compresses each frame individually (like DV), this problem will always exist to some extent. Down with long-GOP compression!!
Hmm...It was my understanding that Vegas Pro 8.0 will edit AVCHD (and even output back to camera) natively. Could be wrong.With AVCHD, there is still a need to convert to a 3rd codec to edit because of the MPEG4 compression. HDV needs to be done that way too for best results.
That said, like HDV there are good reasons you might still want to use an intermediate codec.
A hard disk crash is no different from a tape transport system malfunction/defect. Both leave the camera useless. Actually, one question I have for Sony is whether in the event of HD failure you can still record video to the flash card. If so, that's a huge benefit.Further to hard disk crashes is backing up. Tape acts as a natural archive whereas AVCHD will always be dependent on drives. Something else to consider.
Backups are definitely a concern. I would have said it was a deal-breaker a year ago, but I just set up two 250GB 2.5" external drives for $110 each and always travel with my laptop, so backing up (redundantly, no less) is no longer such a problem. Come to think of it, having multiple copies of the footage across different bags would give me much more peace of mind than a precious box of original tapes.

Certainly lots to consider...
Kris
#6
Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:26 AM



hope to get more reply here about this 2 camcorder....
cheers!!
#7
Posted 21 April 2008 - 10:44 AM
I would think the housing manufacturers would find this a relief compared to multiple buttons and knobs, or worse having to fiddle with touch-screen controls as on the HC series.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the L&M Bluefin for the SR12 handles the controls.
Kris
#8
Posted 21 April 2008 - 01:17 PM
Hi all!! actually am about to buy da SR12 too... (my first camcorder
), n hv been doing lots of "research" around.... according to camcorderinfo.com, it looks like a pretty good camcorder for beginner...
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but what i worried its the limitation in control of WB using ikelite housing.....
hope to get more reply here about this 2 camcorder....
The Ikelite does have access to white balance, via the LCD screen. From Ikelite specs..."Controls for the LCD Screen Touch Pad provide full access to setting white balance and white balance shift."
The roller gives you Focus, Exposure, AE Shift and White Balance ShiftI would think the housing manufacturers would find this a relief compared to multiple buttons and knobs, or worse having to fiddle with touch-screen controls as on the HC series.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the L&M Bluefin for the SR12 handles the controls.
I imagine the Bluefin SR12 will access the white balance control, as well as others, via the LCD screen also. This is how the current HC7 and HC9 models are.
#9
Posted 21 April 2008 - 01:24 PM
I kind of suspect that too. It would be a shame, though, since that means having to keep the LCD open continuously. The batteries on these cams are wimpy enough as it is. I'd much rather have a simple knob on the control dial than the LCD interface...after all, that was primarily a kludge to deal with the HC's which only allow access to WB from the LCD.I imagine the Bluefin SR12 will access the white balance control, as well as others, via the LCD screen also. This is how the current HC7 and HC9 models are.
We shall see pretty soon how they are doing it.
Kris
EDIT: Darn, I just saw the word "SHIFT" in "White Balance Shift"...shoot, I thought you could do a full WB with the control dial. Alas, Sony has made another bonehead design mistake.
Edited by reefnet, 21 April 2008 - 01:29 PM.
#10
Posted 21 April 2008 - 05:18 PM
#11
Posted 21 April 2008 - 07:43 PM


Gamehunter, great to hear you are getting the housing from L&M with their video lights, do post some video here when your rig is ready to go U/W.... happy shooting!!!


cheers!!
Edited by soon_cougar, 22 April 2008 - 06:59 AM.
#12
Posted 23 April 2008 - 03:47 AM
#13
Posted 19 May 2008 - 08:24 PM
Hal