175 replies to this topic

[brycegroark]

[quote name='DeanB' date='Jun 10 2008, 11:57 PM' post='173353']
Well I don't know if it was my screen but they both looked terrible..


Dean - I disagree and think the point Gates was trying to make with that sample was simply showcasing the improved low light capabilities of the EX1 compared to the previous HDV cameras produced. I think it was very nice looking for those waters and overcast conditions - and great to see the reds come out - almost similar to how the PD170 acts at depth.

Thanks for posting that link to the Gates page -

[HDVdiver]

It's an interesting game we are in...always some great new gear coming out. The hard part is to know when to buy into it.

Sony are probably finalizing their next version of the EX1...half the size, better performance...bla, bla...

In my humble opinion HDV/tape is a wonderful high def format. If used carefully and edited at m2t level (not that hard to do) with minimal re-rendering it holds its image quality right through the workflow to Blu-ray authoring with breathtaking results on a 52 inch HD Bravia or whatever good monitor.

As far as crappy HD TV transmission is concerned (even Pal here in Australia) ...why go to the expense and effort shooting with super expensive, heavy to travel with gear when the end result is going to be broadcast in minimal bandwidth?

Of course high end gear has its place, but only if the end justifies the means...In the mean while I just love to put my Gates, ports, two HC1's and two HID 50s and 20 tapes into the overhead compartment in a single Lowepro ...and relax and enjoy the flight...

Cheers

[JohnE]

Hi all,

Bryce is correct -- this was a test focusing on low light capability. As noted in the report the camera struggled for detail in the dark overcast, green and murky conditions that day. But WB and low light performance were excellent. Note also these shots are with ambient light only with no gain or filter.

I strongly suspect in brighter conditions the EX1 will produce excellent detail. It sure does on land.

And while I didn't say so, I was the lacky behind the housing.

Cheers,

J-

[wagsy]

John I was wondering why the footage was so wobbly....

Yes the cost of carting a full size underwater rig around is huge.
These smaller units do near on the same job but make life much easier.
Also you can get more interesting shots with these smaller units that a full size rig.
Most of us here are not shooting for TV.

We have sold 1000 Naturally Ningaloo DVDS's since we made them last year that was shot with the FX1 HDV and here is Kelly walking out the door to deliver another $1700 (profit) of the second batch we just got in. Yep more money in HDV video than taking stills....

I'm not looking forward to tapeless camera's as it's going to be a pain in the bum in the field and time consuming archiving the raw footage, but I am looking forward to updating to the XDCAM 35mbps format.

[brycegroark]

"We have sold 1000 Naturally Ningaloo DVDS's since we made them last year that was shot with the FX1 HDV and here is Kelly walking out the door to deliver another $1700 (profit) of the second batch we just got in. Yep more money in HDV video than taking stills.... "
-----


You talk a big game over there, Wagsy - if you're rolling in all that dough, how come I still haven't seen my copy yet - over here as promised (months ago)? I sent you ours - where's yours?

Thanks for posting the footage, John.

Edited by brycegroark, 11 June 2008 - 07:30 PM.

[pmooney]

Wags is a real estate mogul ( he has cornered the market on red dirt ) - that how he gets to play at video.

[DeanB]

My word how many times does this discussion come up: Unique shot vs Network Acceptance

I think that everyone is on the same page, if you get a killer whale dancing and juggling if it was shot on iphone I'm sure you could sell it!
Its is interesting what cameras people are shooting with for various programes etc, just heard that the feature film Crank 2 has been using Canon XHA1 surface and also for all underwater scenes. HDV can't be that bad....

I think the footage from the EX1 is pretty hard to judge due to the conditions, also it was the first outing with the camera etc.

The point i'm trying to get across is not just the selling of a sequence or of a clip etc.. its a whole programme.. say a 45-50 min doccy style piece... If you wanted a commission or funding..(anyone out there PM me ) then they would look at your HDV gear and laugh at you, throwing you from a 5 floor window.. If you went to them with a finished product, something good, that included some rare if not unseen behaviour (Mike Veitch or Simon Buxton buying a round of drinks) then it would be or should be accepted...

Was watching a BBC prog last night and they were using A1's okay it was only for a short sequence but they were using them..

Dive safe

DeanB

[wagsy]

Bryce has not that DVD turned up yet I'll pop it the mail to you in the morning...sorry..

Dean when can we see some footage from your EX1 and have you plans to get a housing for it.
Anyhow it was indeed cool to see some underwater footage shot with one...Thanks My GATES.

Yes we have some property here for sale if anyone is interested

[scorpio_fish]

The point i'm trying to get across is not just the selling of a sequence or of a clip etc.. its a whole programme.. say a 45-50 min doccy style piece... If you wanted a commission or funding..(anyone out there PM me ) then they would look at your HDV gear and laugh at you, throwing you from a 5 floor window.. If you went to them with a finished product, something good, that included some rare if not unseen behaviour (Mike Veitch or Simon Buxton buying a round of drinks) then it would be or should be accepted...

Was watching a BBC prog last night and they were using A1's okay it was only for a short sequence but they were using them..

Dive safe

DeanB

I just came back from a four day intense training session for video journalism sponsored by the Travel Channel. What you just said, Dean, is right on the money. (well, maybe with exception of buying drinks, which I have no knowledge) Times have changed. No one gives a crap about your camera, only the quality of the result. They can work around the quality of gear, they can't work around content that is crap or rhat no one wants to see. We did the class with HC5's or whatever you brought with you.

Edited by scorpio_fish, 12 June 2008 - 08:28 AM.

[DeanB]

Dean when can we see some footage from your EX1 and have you plans to get a housing for it.
Anyhow it was indeed cool to see some underwater footage shot with one...Thanks My GATES.

Hi Wags..

I'm waiting to see what housing Sealux come up with before making a final decision ... The Gates does look like an awesome piece of kit and I was impressed with Simon Spears housing for his V1... But its soooooo bleeding expensive... If they would make a lens that was a good wide angle 100-110 degree with full zoom then cool.. But to get near that you need the Monster Fathom.. So i'm waiting..

Oh if any of the housing companies do deals I 'maybe' doing a series soon and thats alot of advertising.. if you know what I mean ????

I think the Ex3 will be awesome.. but the housing will be collossal... Good topside cam though.. Was looking at lenses but for anything half decent you'd be paying the same as the actual cam itself !!!

Dive safe

DeanB

What you just said, Dean, is right on the money.

Yep I've never heard of Mike or Simon buying a bloody drink either !!!

Dive safe

DeanB

[marksm]

Has anyone had a gates housing modified to accept comm from OTS systems? What does it take? I forsee this as necessary in the near future.

Anyone looking into feeding the surface with a video signal from the EX1 housing? Any thoughts on this? What would need to be done to the housing? Do you think I would have any luck "splitting" the monitor signal (on the outside of the housing) to send a component signal topside? I'm not sure if component signals can be successfully split.

Mark

[Mike L]

Has anyone had a gates housing modified to accept comm from OTS systems? What does it take? I forsee this as necessary in the near future.

Anyone looking into feeding the surface with a video signal from the EX1 housing? Any thoughts on this? What would need to be done to the housing? Do you think I would have any luck "splitting" the monitor signal (on the outside of the housing) to send a component signal topside? I'm not sure if component signals can be successfully split.

Mark

Hi Mark, what we would do is send the housing down to gates, or if ordering a new housing, we can have it sent from the factory with the proper connector. Its a standard thing to do. Do you already have the OTS system? If so, what system do you have? We work with the guys from OTS and Gates very closely.

To have the video feed sent to the surface from the EX1 is possible. There are two options. First if you are looking to have it HD resolution, then Gates would order a custom cable from their supplier to match your requested length. We would need to know what you are sending the video signal too (i.e. Gates monitor or a third party monitor?)

As far as splitting the signal, I can get back to you tomorrow on that, I would need to double check it.

Let me know if you have any other specifics.

Best always,

Mike

[Perroneford]

If you were going to send a signal topside, wouldn't it make the most sense to pull from the SDI? That's what it's made for.

[marksm]

If you were going to send a signal topside, wouldn't it make the most sense to pull from the SDI? That's what it's made for.

I spoke with John at Gates about the video signal. He also mentioned the SDI which cannot be a wet connector but is doable with custom engineering work from Gates. Or they can make me a long cable to use the monitor component send but then I would have to use the viewfinder for framing since the component can't be split and has a limited cable length of around 100 feet.

I'm pouring through my Sony manual now to find out if the component out (for the monitor) and the SDI can be active at the same time. For some reason, my brain is telling me they cannot. Anyone know?


As a side note...remember when we would say "I'm filming that" and someone would correct us and say "you arent using film so it isnt filming!" ? OK OK so then we would say TAPING instead to make them happy. Do we have to say "I'm digitizing that or I'm flashing that" now that I'm not using tape with the EX1?

[spaceflight]

I'm pouring through my Sony manual now to find out if the component out (for the monitor) and the SDI can be active at the same time. For some reason, my brain is telling me they cannot. Anyone know?

I just looked through my manual and it looks like you can use both connections at the same time.
Look on pages 102 and 109 of the manual.

I am going to hook mine up to a Gates monitor and another monitor with HD-SDI inputs in the morning to verify this.

[DeanB]

As a side note...remember when we would say "I'm filming that" and someone would correct us and say "you arent using film so it isnt filming!" ? OK OK so then we would say TAPING instead to make them happy. Do we have to say "I'm digitizing that or I'm flashing that" now that I'm not using tape with the EX1?

I tend to say "i'm shooting that"... But that can get some very odd look as well...

Dive safe

DeanB

[wolfeeldiver]

As a side note...remember when we would say "I'm filming that" and someone would correct us and say "you arent using film so it isnt filming!" ? OK OK so then we would say TAPING instead to make them happy. Do we have to say "I'm digitizing that or I'm flashing that" now that I'm not using tape with the EX1?

I think some folks in the Hollywood-ish production world.. when shooting digital direct to storage devices... now use the terms "I am capturing that..." or "shooting the initial capture"... to mean filming or taping of the subject. Me thinks..
How about this one "I went on a dive today, and acquired an initial capture of a whale shark..." try to explain that one to the land lubbers...

Edited by wolfeeldiver, 10 July 2008 - 11:21 AM.

[marksm]

Well finally got the housing in today. Everything looks beautiful. Joe at Marine Visions has been a big help. Thanks Joe. The housing will take its dip this weekend in Belize for a four day shake out. Request for shots are welcome for posting comparisons etc.

A bummer to report and if someone knows a work-a-round, speak up! Zebra and Peaking info are not available on the external monitor. I normally shoot all manual and not having that zebra is gonna mean some blown out accidents. Big drag especially the peaking for the critical focus. Both are visible through the rear viewfinder but moving the camera to look through the viewfinder even a little changes the critical focus on closeups. Also the peaking resets when you shut the camera off. So if you turn it on (if you remember) before you insert the camera (since there is no access to the button and it isnt assignable), then you lose it on power cycle. I know this isn't Gates fault but it drives me bonkers that no one mentioned it in the literature, online, or in conversations. If I missed a mention of it then someone correct me.

Most controls are precise and smooth. Considering how curved the body is, things like ND filters, and the gain and white balance toggles are a little tricky. If you happen to catch the ND switch on the top instead of the side and press, you can put some strain on the switch. Gates placed a warning about this on the switch and Joe also gave me a heads up about it. Since the monitor gives info on this, it isnt a guessing game like my old housing.

The new tray is nice. No guessing there. Precise stops...well done

If you read this John, please give us 1-3 inches more on the monitor cable on the inside of the housing. It would be nice to plug it in before inserting the tray rather than trying to squeeze in there once the tray is started. I had to remove the plastic cover door (as per your recommendation in the manual) but more cable and I could have kept it on.

The ports have a really nice feel to them as they are removed and replaced. The diopter is a very nice addition. Thank you.

I might make a suggestion that with so many switches and with some needed to be in on/off positions before others are turned on or engaged, that there be a on/off marking system on the housings instead of just an identifying label. Maybe just a dot that shows switch in this position = on. I'll do this with a paint pen in the mean while.

A lot of pickyness here I know but I'm just pointing out observations.

Edited by marksm, 22 July 2008 - 09:09 PM.

[TheRealDrew]

If you read this John, please give us 1-3 inches more on the monitor cable on the inside of the housing. It would be nice to plug it in before inserting the tray rather than trying to squeeze in there once the tray is started. I had to remove the plastic cover door (as per your recommendation in the manual) but more cable and I could have kept it on.

A lot of pickyness here I know but I'm just pointing out observations.

Congrats on the new set-up. Something you may also want to consider is dropping Gates a note about the issue. I have seen John around here before, but they are also responsive to emails. (I really like Gates myself and the next housing when I switch systems will be a Gates again.)

[marksm]

Peaking and zebra seem to be part of an internal display that doesn't come out of the video out (either HDMI or component). Unless that changes in the Sony design, I doubt those features will ever be available on external monitors.
Also made this the official thread for the Gates housing for this camera.

I stand corrected...digging around, I found this from Drew way back in Feb.

Edited by marksm, 23 July 2008 - 04:18 AM.