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Canon EOS 5D Mark II


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#61 Drew

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 05:11 AM

I wasn't aware that Canon was being criticized for the 1Ds3. I thought it was only the 1D3 that got the complaints.

The general poor QC of the 1Ds3 for some bodies have been noted. Crooked viewfinder/prism assemblies was a big culprit. Matt had this issue.

You can definitely see the effects of NR in the high ISO shots on dpreview. I think they look pretty good but some people are bashing them. I also see evidence of shooter error in some of the images.

Craig, I think this quote from the D3 review says it all :)

...and anyone even close to considering a D3 will be more than capable of making an informed decision without a technical review such as this ...


Think I'll be able to convert my D200 housing? ;)

Oh I have so many quips about Q with Alex Mustard and Eric but I'll resist. :)

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#62 scubarobot

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 08:16 AM

Looks awesome! 21 megapixels heck yes. everyones worried about focus but I have a 5d and it is just as fast as my eos 3(45 focus points). Some weather sealing is better than none. I use my old 5d for topside shooting with no probs. The focus speed is super fast with the 16-35l ii. For the price being $2700 for an awesome still camera then hd video capability...there is nothing that can compare. I would rather have this camera than a 1ds mark iii. I have used both and let me tell you it's not the camera its the photographer. Or hd videographer Now ;)

#63 bmyates

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 10:05 AM

Hmmm...lots of good discussion. My perception (admittedly limited to what I've read - I haven't actually seen the camera yet) is that the 5D2 is going to take the serious uw photog market by storm. The size and ability to shoot high quality video are BIG advantages, and should/will attract a lot of users from three major groups:
1. Canon X0D users, who will finally see a real justification for "moving up";
2. Some Canon 1D and 1Ds users, who will see advantages in size, cost and access to video;
3. Non-Canon users, many of whom might have been thinking they just might switch to Canon and needed a final "nudge."

As I see it, there are still reasons many serious photographers will still prefer 1DX models, the main two being:
1. Speed: a 1D MkII or MkIII, and even the 1Ds Mk III, offer a significant advantage in terms of fps, which - for moving nature (e.g., sharks) and sports photography - is more important than just mp or many other features.
2. Weather sealing: those who use their gear topside in harsh conditions will still prefer the better protected models.

However, those considerations are really only a major issue for the minority of "serious" uw photographers (which includes a lot of dedicated amateurs like me, not just pros). For most of them/us, the attraction of this 5D2 is undeniable -- as this thread makes clear by the caliber of people who are intrigued by it.

If I didn't already have many years' budget already plowed into new Mark III gear, I would be first in line to order a 5D2! In fact, FWIW, if I had known the 5D2 would have video capabilities (why don't you guys "in the know" warn us?!), I would have just kept my 1D Mark II (and housing) for times when I need high fps and/or weather-sealing, and I'd be buying this 5D2 as my primary uw--and topside--camera.

Edited by bmyates, 21 September 2008 - 10:05 AM.

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#64 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 12:06 PM

I think that one thing that everyone misses in the hype about specs is that high resolution FX sensors will be hard to use. They will punish poor technique. The 5DMk2, Sony A900 and future Nikon high megapixel camera will all be like this. I know that Eric has said that the 1DsMk3 requires perfect technique to realise its full potential.

To make a film analogy, I think that the 10-15MP APS-C cameras will be like the old 35mm slides and the 20+ MP cameras will be like medium format on film - amazing when you nail it. Very unforgiving of sloppy technique.

Some of the 5D-2 images that have been doing the rounds in the UK, show just this. Shot at Canon UK - they are being criticised for not being very helpful because you can't judge anything about the sensor because of poor technique. They look fine at web rez - but not at 100%. But the fact that you can't judge the sensor from these shots is exactly the point. Poor technique will be exposed, good technique will be rewarded with 21 MP of goodness.

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#65 Paul Kay

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 01:28 PM

I think that one thing that everyone misses in the hype about specs is that high resolution FX sensors will be hard to use. They will punish poor technique. The 5DMk2, Sony A900 and future Nikon high megapixel camera will all be like this. I know that Eric has said that the 1DsMk3 requires perfect technique to realise its full potential.

To make a film analogy, I think that the 10-15MP APS-C cameras will be like the old 35mm slides and the 20+ MP cameras will be like medium format on film - amazing when you nail it. Very unforgiving of sloppy technique.

Alex


Larger formats have always required a higher degree of technical precision to utilise the their full potential. Focus is absolutely critical and an understanding of depth of field confines is more essential for decent sized reproduction on FF cameras. Sloppy technique might well be translated as 'lack of critical understanding' too. But beware of internet hype - these cameras may well recieve criticism because they are harder to use to their full potential....
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#66 bmyates

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 03:10 PM

I think that one thing that everyone misses in the hype about specs is that high resolution FX sensors will be hard to use. They will punish poor technique. . .Poor technique will be exposed, good technique will be rewarded with 21 MP of goodness.


That's an important point...and probably far more significant for uw applications than whatever Canon sacrificed in color filter capability to gain better light sensitivity in the 5D2. Since most of us shooting these high-end cameras are shooting RAW (allowing easy tweaking of WB/color), and exact/
"correct" colors of subjects underwater are nebulous anyway, the ability of this new camera to produce "better" uw photographs will -- as was always the case with previous top-end equipment -- ultimately depend most on the brain behind the eyeball behind the viewfinder...

BTW, I love the phrase, "21 MP of goodness". Sounds downright yummy, doesn't it?! ;)

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"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damned fool about it." WC Fields


#67 Drew

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 04:36 PM

For those who want the camera for it's amazing video, you may want to check this thread out:

http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=26569

As ever, there's never a free lunch ;)

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#68 scubarobot

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 05:19 PM

free lunch? I bought my 5d for $3100 when it first came out. And I am still happy with the images I can capture with it. Now a professional dslr comes out and has any type of video. HD video mind you. Probably better vid than any consumer video cam and your still not happy? I don't have to buy a video housing for my consumer video camera. I don't know how many lunches that buys you but considering an ikelite consumer vid housing runs around $800. I'm guessing you can get nice and fat. I can dive with one apparatus to capture video and stills. Then you throw in 21 mp in a compact full frame body. For $2699 that's a steal!

#69 scubarobot

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 05:23 PM

come on team wetpixel... where's the review and the specs to tell us weather or not us 5d owners can use our existing housings?

#70 Drew

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 06:28 PM

(why don't you guys "in the know" warn us?!).

Simple Bruce. NDAs ;). I'm playing with one today before I fly but I'm not allowed to use a CF card or show pics from or of it. Which is fair seeing how it's still a prototype and not the final product. Still I will have to sign a NDA. Any leaked info is taken VERY personally by manufacturers.

free lunch? I bought my 5d for $3100 when it first came out. And I am still happy with the images I can capture with it. Now a professional dslr comes out and has any type of video. HD video mind you. Probably better vid than any consumer video cam and your still not happy?

Well, you read the thread, you will see why I said that. It's great you are happy with the 5DMkII, but some people are more discerning about the quality of the video than others.

come on team wetpixel... where's the review and the specs to tell us weather or not us 5d owners can use our existing housings?

If you read Viz'art's post in this thread, you already have the answer regarding housings. FYI, Canon has not released the camera yet.

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#71 scubarobot

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 06:49 PM

drew

look I am fully aware that the camera has not been released yet. I happen to remember wetpixel having access to other new equipment for the purpose of a preview. I was simply asking them expedite the preview for us wetpixel members.
The primary function of this camera is a camera. I'm sure as a video expert you were not counting on buying 5d2 then throwing your video camera into the ocean . I am a pro-photographer. Would I expect a video camera to produce a 21 megapixel image? No.

With repect to viz'arts post that was for an aquatica housing but it may fit differently in say an ikelite housing.

Instead of debating a bunch of forum posts I was hoping to see an official hands on preview by wetpixel. This is where wetpixel can use it's influence as a special interest group to get a production sample.

Edited by scubarobot, 21 September 2008 - 07:22 PM.


#72 Drew

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 04:19 AM

For those who dared to hope against hope, the 5Dmk2 WILL NOT FIT into your old housings. As Jean (Viz'Art) has already stated, the dimensions while similar do not account for the layout. Laying them out side by side, the prism area of the 5D2 is bigger and more bulbous, the viewfinder is actually lower and the buttons moved sideways by a few mm. On/Off switch has moved way right and the control dial is smaller.
The top LCD panel is brand new and buttons have moved also. The shutter and top control dial seems to be at the same place as are the * and AF point adjust buttons.
It's not just changing of the back controls but also the top controls. IF the housing can fit the bigger prism head and you can live with looking at partial VF (maybe 2mm off), top and back LCD monitors , you still have to find someone to modify the controls. Oh you also have to lower the mount plate because the entire right side is higher by 3-5mm. :D Have I quashed all hopes yet? :)
Of course, all this could've been extrapolated from the press pictures from links in this thread, so most of you already know that,judging by how many rigs suddenly just popped up in the classifieds. :)

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#73 segal3

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:29 AM

Here is the discussion about the video functions with some video samples:

http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=26569
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#74 Viz'art

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 11:10 AM

Just back from Canon Canada and had the opportunity to play with the MK II, like Drew I got to play with it put couldn't load it up but I did get enough dimensional info to tell you its not going into a 5D housing, at least not without a fight and some bruises. there is just too much difference. I did however put a 50D in our 40D housing and well, lets put it this way Aquatica is proud to say it has being shipping it Canon 50D for a long while :) the camera is identical for housing purposes, but thats another thread!
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#75 Jolly

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 06:52 AM

Just a quick overlap of both cameras rear controls is enough to tell me this baby is a totally different size layout. way too much for a conversion such as the D200/D300, Our Camera is ordered already and we are going to get to it the moment its in. I can tell you it will be machined from solid and have a port lock mechanism (all our new housing will feature that). Good timing for once, we are basically all done with the D700 design and just about ready to go in production. its a luxury to be able to concentrate on one design these days.


I guess youíve overlapped the viewfinders?

I did some overlays but used the lens (mount) as reference Ďcause it simply has to stay centred for optics and zoom/focus gear. And yes, it seems no good for conversion.

Posted Image

Posted Image

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At least for video tryout I hope I can stuff it into the MkI housing with the set knob working to start shooting.
Oh, I guess we need to worry about manual focus gear again with the MkII :-)

Welcome back Jolly! Did it take the replacement of the 5D to get you back here :-)


Thanks James. Well, not just the MkII :P

Jolly, aren't you a little disappointed that auto ISO doesn't work in manual? I know I am.


Thanks for pointing out. I hadnít noticed. Auto ISO in manual would have been a good thing. But I guess I would preferably use it in Av / Tv with filters.

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#76 dhaas

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 11:39 AM

Amigos,

Check this pre-production report out:

http://www.luminous-...I-preview.shtml

Almost 80% through the video Micheal Reichmann shows some clips...........Pretty amazing!

It'll keep coming, meaning HD video and amazing digital still capability in one unit.........

Exciting times........

dhaas

[merged in from another thread -editor]
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#77 shchae

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 02:07 PM

come on team wetpixel... where's the review and the specs to tell us weather or not us 5d owners can use our existing housings?

Hi,
I do not shoot Canon but, have enough 5d housings around me and I will try to put
new camera into 5d housings as soon as new camera avilable in the market & report
here.

Sam
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and Nauticam D-7000 with Insect-eye lens.

#78 Jez_Tryner

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 11:55 PM

Hi,
I do not shoot Canon but, have enough 5d housings around me and I will try to put
new camera into 5d housings as soon as new camera avilable in the market & report
here.

Sam


if you could let us know the manufacturer of the housing when you try it, well if it works, i suppose if it doesn't it won't mastter, good luck,
Jez
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#79 james

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Posted 29 September 2008 - 04:06 AM

Thanks Sam - that would be very helpful!

Cheers
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#80 Drew

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Posted 06 October 2008 - 01:53 AM

James, keep on dreaming! :)

Btw for those who still care about weather resistance... the real stat is 10mm/hour at 3 minutes, which really means light rain, which goes right back to half-assed implementation of weather sealing. But at $2700 and a compact body, it's hardly unexpected that Canon cuts corners somewhere. I suppose real weather sealing would cut too much into the 1D sales.

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