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Video from the Canon 5DMkII


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#61 wagsy

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 07:26 PM

Wobbly wobbly......man I'm glad I don't have to go to work like those folks on the train every day... ;)
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#62 Drew

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:08 PM

I'm hoping the 17-40 F4/L will help with this problem. With a max aperture of F4 and a more lenient circle of confusion for HD versus a full 21 megapixel image, it may be that you can get pretty significant DOF at 17 to 20 mm.
Pat

Sure. 17 at f4 the hyperfocal is just under 8ft on the 5D. However, since the camera adjusts ISO first, noise is the biggest problem. Limiting ISO expansion to 3200 should lower it but I think with underwater conditions, ISO 400-800 will be the norm at f4. For u/w SWA, I think lenses like the 14mm L II 2.8, 15FE and 12-24 Sigma will be crucial. Using the 5D2 underwater will require a certain discipline to get AF to the right focus point to stay in focus for wide angle. This is especially so since AF interrupts shooting so we need to have a MF gear option. It's not a run and gun camera for sure.
Looking at the handheld clips, the image is very much affected by CMOS rolling shutter. Also at 1/30 (seems to be the default shutter speed), faster moving subjects will be just a blur. I will be trying to get 5D2 clips from my own camera (which is apparently arriving any day now) and post thoughts.

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#63 craig

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:19 PM

How popular is FF fisheye with video? I think that's a specialty "look". How successfully has the 12-24 been housed with FF 35mm? I know 1080p is a step down from still resolution, but optics will continue to be a problem.
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#64 Drew

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 08:32 PM

Craig, I know a few guys using the 12-24 with 5D and I use mine with the 1Ds2. Corners aren't perfect obviously but it's decent past f11. Also with the 5D2, the sensor samples at 16:9 AR in HD, I think that the corners should be decent compared to the 3:2 AR. Obviously the rectilinear lenses will be the most popular.
I'm still looking forward to shooting the Ikonoskop DII for HD. 60fps is always cooler.

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#65 scaper

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Posted 11 November 2008 - 09:42 PM

Drew,

Looking forward to hearing of your experiences with the 5D. Even if it's halfway useable underwater (as a video camera) I would be very interested in getting one.

Pat

Edited by scaper, 11 November 2008 - 10:25 PM.


#66 Drew

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 01:51 AM

Pat, it's not going to be a replacement for a dedicated vid camera. There are certain shots you'll never get with the 5D. Run and gun action shots etc. The faster the response needed, the less useful the 5D is. As a macro camera it'll be awesome. Wide angle is where the limitations really show.

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#67 scaper

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Posted 12 November 2008 - 08:56 PM

Pat, it's not going to be a replacement for a dedicated vid camera. There are certain shots you'll never get with the 5D. Run and gun action shots etc. The faster the response needed, the less useful the 5D is. As a macro camera it'll be awesome. Wide angle is where the limitations really show.



That's why I'm keeping my XH-A1, HC-7, and HV-20. The 5d Mk II, however, is small, lightweight, will take 21 MP stills as well as HD, can use my Canon lenses, and the underwater housings will be cheaper than for the A1. Provided there is not too much motion in a scene, many wide angle shots may turn out well. There are reports that you can lock the camera's aperture in AV mode. If this is not true, it may still be possible to lock the aperture by pushing the DOF preview button, removing the lens, taping the contacts and putting the lens back on the camera. In this case you certainly have set additional restrictions on what kinds of scenes you can shoot, but gained a wide depth of field.

The other thing that I think is important to think about is how the hyperfocal distance and perceived depth of field are calculated. The circle of confusion, one of the variables in the calculation, is based on how many lines per millimeter a subject can see for a given print size and viewing distance. The DOFMaster software doesn't adjust the circle of confusion for a 5D (II) to account for the differences in viewing conditions between print and screen. Viewing a 21 or 12 MP printed image is a lot different than a 2 PM projected image or a 2 MP image on a monitor or TV. There is a an inherent limit to how sharp a 1920 by 1080 image can be. While Vimeo clips are not the best for judging sharpness, a dvinfo poster's clips from an XH-A1 with an SGPRO 35mm adaptor and Canon 17-40 F4 locked at F4 seem to show very substantial depth of field. At any rate, 5D MK II DOF (which is a perceptual phenomenom) may be a bit larger in HD mode than still mode. If you are using the camera in bright tropical waters not far from the surface, the camera may give you smaller apertures anyway.

You're right, it won't replace a dedicated video camera, but it may be a lot of fun for macro and any other kinds of shooting situations that it can handle. I have some stock footage for sale (none of which has yet been bought), but I am really just a serious amateur at this point. Since I don't have to plan my trips for saleable results, answer to clients, shoot under deadlines or worry too much about bringing back great footage, I can afford to concentrate on making less-than-optimal setups work well, and this is something I enjoy doing. Conversely, I can't afford the best video equipment, and so the 5D MKII holds a lot of appeal for me at this point. I'll see what people are saying about the new 5D early next year. If there is a lot of grumbling from the video contingent, maybe I'll head off in another direction.

The first film I ever made was accepted and presented at last year's San Diego Undersea Film Exhibition. I shot it snorkeling with an HC-7 and Gates housing. Health issues, that are no big deal on land may keep me from ever getting certified for diving, although I will pursue this next year. If I could dive now, I'd probably sell off half my gear and simply get a Gates housing for the XH-A1. Since terrestrial videography has to fill the void (I'd rather be doing underater video most of the time) and I don't like hauling 15 pounds of equipment up a mountain, I'm looking at a lot of quirky ways to maximize my options (above and below water) and still shoot good video.

Regards,

Pat

#68 Drew

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:07 AM

Here is another video showing the crushed blacks and clipped highlights... looks stunning for night shots...but the curve is pretty abrupt.
Warning: Large download

http://cmac.smugmug....023_AsXNo-X2-LB

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#69 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 01:39 AM

I've had my 5d mkII for 27 hours now :unsure:

I have to say that my excitement was starting to wain in the days prior to picking it up, as lots of folks were bagging the video capability, which was the attractive thing to me, as I already have 1dsmkIII.

So I've shot some clips of the kids today, and I like them. It was a pleasant surprise! I will shoot some more tomorrow.

I don't have anything to edit with other than imovie HD, not sure how successful that will be, but will investigate so that at least i may be able to post something to show you guys.

And it's been fun.

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#70 Drew

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 04:10 AM

Mine are sitting at home while I'm on the road.
I've edited using FCP and since Quicktime supports H264 and iMovie converts everything to AIC, you shouldn't have too much of an issue, if it's a 2008 iMovie that is.
The 2 things I would test for is the skew/wobble on a big screen and also using the Picture Style Editor to flatten out the image curves.

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#71 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 05:07 AM

.... you shouldn't have too much of an issue, if it's a 2008 iMovie that is....
....The 2 things I would test for is the skew/wobble on a big screen and also using the Picture Style Editor to flatten out the image curves....


well, I opened iMovie for the first time tonight and have put together a little collection of clips... was pretty straight forward...my little clip is uploading to Vimeo right now, will post a link when it's up there.

All the things I shot were from a static camera, mainly as I know nothing about moving pictures, so I guess I will learn about wobble and moving camera positions tomorrow.

The first thing I did when I opened the box was make myself a "User Defined Picture Style" based on the Neutral one, just with the contrast turned down as low as possible. Great minds think alike :unsure: .

Looking forward to tomorrow!

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#72 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 05:33 AM

So I have some questions about the whole moving pictures thing...

Having now spend my first hour making moving pictures, I can see why a rig like this might be desirable in the future...
plus maybe some ND filters, a microphone...

but what about a small (6" maybe?) HD monitor run from the HDMI port on the EOS? I'm thinking that might make focusing a bit easier. Not sure if there is anything like that out there. I guess it would need it's own power source... any suggestions welcome.

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#73 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:09 AM

So i've uploaded "First Clips" onto Vimeo... (any other suggestions for better hosting would be great).
On my connection anyway it doesn't look very smooth, but playing the original using quicktime, it looks very nice.

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#74 loftus

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:15 AM

So i've uploaded "First Clips" onto Vimeo... (any other suggestions for better hosting would be great).
On my connection anyway it doesn't look very smooth, but playing the original using quicktime, it looks very nice.

I tried to view it on vimeo, but do not have permission?
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#75 Ferg42

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:41 AM

Darren,

There are small external HD monitors out there. There have been various discussions about it on cinema5D.com. Unfortunately it seems as though the output switches to a much lower res 640x480 as soon as you hit record. So the monitor could be used for precise focussing only before you start recording.

I have a MkII on order- hoping to get it in before xmas. Can't wait to have a play!

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#76 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:43 AM

I tried to view it on vimeo, but do not have permission?


Learning as I go.... you should be able to view it now. Didn't realise there were privacy settings on Vimeo. all fixed. here's the link again

Edited by photovan, 13 December 2008 - 06:45 AM.

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#77 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 06:51 AM

Darren,

There are small external HD monitors out there. There have been various discussions about it on cinema5D.com. Unfortunately it seems as though the output switches to a much lower res 640x480 as soon as you hit record. So the monitor could be used for precise focussing only before you start recording.

I have a MkII on order- hoping to get it in before xmas. Can't wait to have a play!

Fergus


I haven't had this much fun in ages. You'll enjoy it I'm sure. Just gotta buy more stuff now... I think an external monitor even at 640x480 might be helpful, I can focus using the LCD but it's a struggle. The other thought was to put some kind of magnifier on the rig... I might try the waist level finder off my old Bronica :unsure: and see if I am onto something with that.

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#78 loftus

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:20 AM

Learning as I go.... you should be able to view it now. Didn't realise there were privacy settings on Vimeo. all fixed. here's the link again

Cute kids. Question....the blurring with fast movement, like the arms swinging backwards when he jumps in, is this normal or is just characteristic of the 5D
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#79 Ferg42

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 10:27 AM

I think this depends on what shutter speed you're using. I would guess this is on 1/30th which is the slowest the 5D MkII uses for video. It will go up to 1/125th on video, depending on available light. Although the camera tends to select the shutter speed automatically, various people are finding ways to force desired settings. I've even heard it's possible to force shutter speeds into the thousanths of a second, using various tricks, although this produces quite a jerky look to the video, as each frame is completely sharp. A lot of people prefer the look where moving objects have a little bit of blur. 1/60th seems to be a shutter speed favoured by many.

Edited by Ferg42, 13 December 2008 - 10:35 AM.

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#80 photovan

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Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:22 PM

...Question....the blurring with fast movement, like the arms swinging backwards when he jumps in, is this normal or is just characteristic of the 5D


This posting video process seems a flawed method to use to assessing quality. So many variables I guess... the conversion done on the site itself, server and connection speed ...probably other things.

When I play the 40MB .mov file in Quicktime or the project in iMovie, it appears very smooth, none of the jerkiness or blur either. Maybe someone can suggest a place that I could plonk the .mov and those wanting to can download load it and play it locally.

darren

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