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Nikon D2H Preview


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#21 craig

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 06:19 PM

I'd sure like to see Nikon's claims on dynamic range. I've read people claiming 2 stops improvement but I haven't found any supporting claims from Nikon. All I've seen is "really good noise performance". Any links?
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#22 marriard

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 06:26 PM

What would a press photographer need with more MP anyway?

I can answer this one. 99% of the press photographers I know like to believe that their images will be in some $1,000,000 book or some day on the wall as a mural in some hall - for example every sports photographer I know believes that the image he took yesterday will be in the Baseball Hall of Fame next year.

That is why several years ago they would use color film when they only ever published black and white.

... and you know, one day they may be right. What if you get the call for that 'special' image and all you have is a 4MP image. Ugh... That is their worst nightmare.

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#23 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 12:35 AM

I am surprised that they don't offer a switch over to a electronic shutter for high speed flash synch. Surely that wouldn't be too tough to engineer. If you are using flash at high shutter speeds the mecahnical shutter stays open and you control the light with a slightly less accurate but still good electronic shutter on the chip. In the same way as some/most? digi-compacts?
When the flash isn't on, just use the mechanical shutter as normal?

Interesting camera, but i can't see anyone taking it underwater. D2X and D200 seem more suitable prospects for submerging.

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#24 wetpixel

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 12:43 AM

Yeah. I'm unclear on the advantages/disadvantages (engineering-wise) of mechanical vs. electronic shutter.

For example, the 1D has electronic shutter and the 1Ds has a mechanical one.

Anyone out there know? :unsure:
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#25 wetpixel

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 12:47 AM

... and you know, one day they may be right. What if you get the call for that 'special' image and all you have is a 4MP image. Ugh... That is their worst nightmare.

Well, if the image is special enough, 4MP will be just fine.

I have an example. Well, it's perhaps not of magnitude worthy of mention, but that screaming loggerhead shot I took that made the cover of Dive was less than 4MP after cropping. The original shot was taken as a landscape shot and had to be cropped for a portrait composition. Result? Far less than 4MP. Those familiar with D-SLR output can probably see that it's lacking in resolution compared to a full-"frame" 6MP shot, but it looks fine in A4. ;)

Of course, if I had taken the shot with a 4MP camera, I would have been screwed. :unsure:
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#26 Kasey

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 02:12 AM

... and you know, one day they may be right. What if you get the call for that 'special' image and all you have is a 4MP image. Ugh... That is their worst nightmare.

M

I'm no image manipulation expert, but if the images is noise-free, wouldn't you be able to boost resolution beyond 6MP using interpolation or GF. The software will get better over time, perhaps maintaining the value of our 4MP image.

Speed has to be the priority here, and how fast could you shoot, upload, and manipulate a 10MP image. The technology isn't there, yet. Clearly we have passed the point of diminishing returns with digicams. We will continue to see refinements (and price reduction), but not breakthrough after breakthrough like 2 years ago. The Canon 10D, and now the D2H have demonstrated this.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - the MSRP is $3500. $1000 less than the D1H was!

I think that this is a beautiful camera - I'm excited that nikon has upgraded its focusing hardware. Personally, I don't want a lot more resolution from my D100 - more dynamic range, longer battery life (I know it is already great), less noise, and top notch AF and viewfinder. i think the D200 will bring those things, and if it comes in at 20% less than the D100 started at, I'll buy it.

Lets wait for images from the D1H before we criticize. From what we know about it right now, it is the fastest dSLR ever built. What we don't know is what the image quality is, and how big we can enlarge from it.

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#27 Kasey

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 02:32 AM

... and you know, one day they may be right. What if you get the call for that 'special' image and all you have is a 4MP image. Ugh... That is their worst nightmare.

M

I'm no image manipulation expert, but if the images is noise-free, wouldn't you be able to boost resolution beyond 6MP using interpolation or GF. The software will get better over time, perhaps maintaining the value of our 4MP image.

Speed has to be the priority here, and how fast could you shoot, upload, and manipulate a 10MP image. The technology isn't there, yet. Clearly we have passed the point of diminishing returns with digicams. We will continue to see refinements (and price reduction), but not breakthrough after breakthrough like 2 years ago. The Canon 10D, and now the D2H have demonstrated this.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here - the MSRP is $3500. $1000 less than the D1H was!

I think that this is a beautiful camera - I'm excited that nikon has upgraded its focusing hardware. Personally, I don't want a lot more resolution from my D100 - more dynamic range, longer battery life (I know it is already great), less noise, and top notch AF and viewfinder. i think the D200 will bring those things, and if it comes in at 20% less than the D100 started at, I'll buy it.

Lets wait for images from the D1H before we criticize. From what we know about it right now, it is the fastest dSLR ever built. What we don't know is what the image quality is, and how big we can enlarge from it.

Kasey

Image a 12 MP camera that could shoot 10fps for 40 shots. In 4 seconds you'd fill a 1gb microdrive!!! Then the time consuming task of downloading and evaluating all those images. I'd be afraid to press the shutter!
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#28 tshepherd

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:49 AM

Image a 12 MP camera that could shoot 10fps for 40 shots. In 4 seconds you'd fill a 1gb microdrive!!! Then the time consuming task of downloading and evaluating all those images. I'd be afraid to press the shutter!


Yup, but isn't that just how technology goes? There's always a bottleneck, but it keeps progressing. I guess my point is that as the cameras get faster and create larger image files, the storage capacity goes up on the removable media, and computers get faster with more memory and more storage.

I've got to say that as a Canon user, I'm still excited about this camera, if only so that it drives Canon to respond, and hopefully to lower prices on the 1D / 1Ds. Like most of the Canon people on dpreview.com's forums, I'm hoping to see something from Canon this fall that sort of defines what direction they're going compared to the DX concept from Nikon.

#29 Craig Ruaux

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 04:44 AM

Yeah. I'm unclear on the advantages/disadvantages (engineering-wise) of mechanical vs. electronic shutter.

For example, the 1D has electronic shutter and the 1Ds has a mechanical one.

Anyone out there know? :unsure:

Too much stuff to paraphrase simply in this link, but in essence it appears to hinge on the design of the sensors. CCD's are reasonably easy to do electronic shuttering, CMOS it is much harder. With CMOS you can do a rolling electronic shutter by reseting each row of pixels and then reading back after the exposure period, but this method leads to motion artifacts in fast moving subjects (and that is what the D2H is for), and for a fill flash scenario it would require the flash to burn for the length of time it takes to reset/expose/read the whole imager.

I think your example cameras are CCD and CMOS respectively, aren't they Eric?. And the D2H sensor is obviously from a CMOS lineage, probably the same things apply.
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#30 marriard

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 04:47 AM

I'm no image manipulation expert, but if the images is noise-free, wouldn't you be able to boost resolution beyond 6MP using interpolation or GF. The software will get better over time, perhaps maintaining the value of our 4MP image.

Image a 12 MP camera that could shoot 10fps for 40 shots. In 4 seconds you'd fill a 1gb microdrive!!! Then the time consuming task of downloading and evaluating all those images. I'd be afraid to press the shutter!

Two things here - a 4MP mage is still a 4MP pixel image. There are a variety of things you can do to make it better, but I can do the same things to a 6MP pixel image as well. Depends on usage of course, but for the same reason I liked to shoot 50 ISO Velvia and 100 ISO Provia, I also like to shoot RAW & low ISO settings.

Secondly the 4GB Mircodrive should be out soon which will help. Also film photogs use canisters of 36 shots so if you are doing burst photography, you can go through a roll very, very quickly and get used to it.

M

#31 scorpio_fish

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:53 AM

Also film photogs use canisters of 36 shots so if you are doing burst photography, you can go through a roll very, very quickly and get used to it.



Sure, hand camera to assistant, grab other camera and shoot while assistant reloads. :unsure:

I recall seeing a show about David Doubilet shooting Great Whites for Nat Geo. He was in a shark cage. As soon as he finished a roll, he would hand up the housing and be handed down another while surface support changed out the film.

If I recall correctly, he took about 2000 exposures that day. He only kept about 6 or 7. He must not be very good. ;) :( :D
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#32 bobjarman

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:57 AM

lol :unsure: :( ;)

#33 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 06:36 AM

Seems that David Duvet would save lots of cash if he got in digital! Anyone know if he has dabbled yet? I would be curious to see his digital shots when he tries.

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#34 caminu

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 06:55 AM

Yeah. I was just thinking of putzing around the house during a party or something and snapping away.  I could leave the projector on slideshow and have all of the photos being taken cycled through automatically. ;)

I guess the more exciting announcements have been the new wide-angle lenses.  I'm going to have to get this 1Ds housed to compete! hehehe.

There you go. The UW housing for 1Ds/1D is coming this fall from sea and sea

http://www.seaandsea...x1ds/index.html

#35 tshepherd

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 07:07 AM

Nice. Hopefully now they'll support a few more lenses for Canon, and that'll trickle down to the D60...

#36 Andi Voeltz

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Posted 25 July 2003 - 09:20 AM

There you go. The UW housing for 1Ds/1D is coming this fall from sea and sea

http://www.seaandsea...x1ds/index.html

Whow, means work for me :-) we'll keep on track at:
http://www.digideep....&mID=66&pID=583
find a housing for your digicam! oOo. http://www.digideep.com .oOo.
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