39 replies to this topic

[CADiver]

The part that had me confused was why were you trying to change the exposures. A properly working TTL system with the optical sync should show pretty much the same exposure at all reasonable f stops.
Bill

That part had me confused too :-) My memory recall . Optical connected.
I was photoing nudi branch about 18in away ( ~f11 to 14, 1/200sec, Nikon flash default TTL), 240 @ sttl and EV at B. Overly exposed result. Then I dial the EV to 6 oclock (f11), better. Then switch to sttl-low, EV still at 6 oclock, under expose, move it up to f4.5 (3 oclock), better. So I became confuse ...

This was in sttl-low and EV at 3 oclock (f4.5) - http://www.flickr.co...ver/3872257784/

This was manual and EV at 5 oclock electronic sync - http://www.flickr.co...ver/3936602620/

I need to try some more this coming Sat to sort out my confusion ...

Edited by CADiver, 28 September 2009 - 01:19 PM.

[Edward Lai]

When I used my D90 with 2 Inon Z240s connected by optical fiber, I set the pop-up flash to [TTL] mode (which is default of D90); and the Z240s to STTL. I first point the EV Controller to B position, and tried to verify whether the TTL was working.

I did find the pictures over-exposed consistantly in the beginning. Believing that the TTL should be working, I concluded that the Inon flashes had different output characteristic compared to the pop-up flash, which the camera TTL calculation based on. I then tried to set a negative exposure compensation in the camera, and the exposure became much better. I eventually settled with a -2.3 EV in the camera, and the TTL worked nicely for me over 30+ dives until now.

I always take pictures (on land) with different colors and at different distances to verify the accuracy of the TTL capability of the combo, and find them work well within a reasonable range of apertures and distances. Setting to STTL-Low sometimes help when shooting very close; and the EV Controller (A-B-C) also helps at times when I wanted to tune the exposure up or down a bit, without having to change the -2.3 EV I set in the camera.

Do remember to leave the ACC button (right lower with the 1>2 sign) at the 'up' position when using STTL.

Last thing I want to add is that the TTL does not work so good with wideangle shots. Full manual control can still be achieved by optical connection. Just turn the power dial to [M-0.5>-6] or [Full] to select your output options. When using the Z240 in manual, be sure: 1) set the D90 pop-up flash output to [Manual] and [1/128] output; and 2) set the ACC button to 'Down" position.

Edward

[Aqua_soul]

This has been a great thread for me and i think i am slowly learning how to properly use my strobes:)

A few questions:

Is TTL (command mode) also standard for the D300?

So if i shoot macro and want to use STTL, i must set my strobes to sTTL (top left dial), Set the top right dial to "B" position and leave the bottom right push button in the up position, right?
In this setting should i have my camera flash set to rear mirror or not?
Also with these setting, will changing the strength with which the camera's flash fires affect the strength by which the Strobes fire?
Same question as above, but play with different manual settings for the flash output of the camera....will it affect the strength of the strobe or just safe battery power for the camera?

For wide angle, its better to go manual, right?
Then i switch the top let dial to manual.
The top right dial to the f-stop matching the one on the camera.
Push the bottom right button in/down.
To which should the camera flash be set - rear curtain sync or not?
What effect will changes to the manual settings of the camera's flash have with the wide angle setup as well as changes to the camera's flash strength?

Thanks!

[CADiver]

When I used my D90 with 2 Inon Z240s connected by optical fiber, I set the pop-up flash to [TTL] mode (which is default of D90); and the Z240s to STTL. I first point the EV Controller to B position, and tried to verify whether the TTL was working.

I did find the pictures over-exposed consistantly in the beginning. Believing that the TTL should be working, I concluded that the Inon flashes had different output characteristic compared to the pop-up flash, which the camera TTL calculation based on. I then tried to set a negative exposure compensation in the camera, and the exposure became much better. I eventually settled with a -2.3 EV in the camera, and the TTL worked nicely for me over 30+ dives until now.

I always take pictures (on land) with different colors and at different distances to verify the accuracy of the TTL capability of the combo, and find them work well within a reasonable range of apertures and distances. Setting to STTL-Low sometimes help when shooting very close; and the EV Controller (A-B-C) also helps at times when I wanted to tune the exposure up or down a bit, without having to change the -2.3 EV I set in the camera.

Do remember to leave the ACC button (right lower with the 1>2 sign) at the 'up' position when using STTL.

Last thing I want to add is that the TTL does not work so good with wideangle shots. Full manual control can still be achieved by optical connection. Just turn the power dial to [M-0.5>-6] or [Full] to select your output options. When using the Z240 in manual, be sure: 1) set the D90 pop-up flash output to [Manual] and [1/128] output; and 2) set the ACC button to 'Down" position.

Edward

Thank you Ed. That's what I am looking for, real life usage & experience and share ...

[Edward Lai]

This has been a great thread for me and i think i am slowly learning how to properly use my strobes:)

A few questions:

Is TTL (command mode) also standard for the D300?

So if i shoot macro and want to use STTL, i must set my strobes to sTTL (top left dial), Set the top right dial to "B" position and leave the bottom right push button in the up position, right?
In this setting should i have my camera flash set to rear mirror or not?
Also with these setting, will changing the strength with which the camera's flash fires affect the strength by which the Strobes fire?
Same question as above, but play with different manual settings for the flash output of the camera....will it affect the strength of the strobe or just safe battery power for the camera?

For wide angle, its better to go manual, right?
Then i switch the top let dial to manual.
The top right dial to the f-stop matching the one on the camera.
Push the bottom right button in/down.
To which should the camera flash be set - rear curtain sync or not?
What effect will changes to the manual settings of the camera's flash have with the wide angle setup as well as changes to the camera's flash strength?

Thanks!

Hi,

Nikon cameras including D70, D80, D90, D200, D300/s, D700 all have commander mode for their pop-up flashes to use with iTTL compatible flashes such as SB-R200, SB-600, SB-800, SB-900. Under Custom Setting Menu-Bracketing/flash-Flash cntrl for built-in flash there are 4 options: TTL, Manual, Repeating flash and Commander mode.

However, when connected via optical fiber to Z240s, the Commander mode is NOT the correct choice. You should set the camera pop-up flash to [TTL]. The camera still thinks it is using its own flash for exposing the picture, while the Z240 reads the pre-flash and flash and mimics them (while inside a metal housing the camera flash can't go through except via the optical bulkheads). That's why we have to utilize the TTL function of the camera to control the exposure which indirectly controls the duration of the Z240 strobes.

Settings on Z240 for STTL is: Power Knob at STTL or STTL-low (output is slightly less); EV Controller at B for normal strength, A for more light and C for less light; ACC button (lower right one) at UP position.

Setting exposure compensation in the camera (either flash compensation or main compensation) does change the in-camera TTL level hence can indirectly change the Z240 output as well. (Do remember that for my D90 + 2X Z240s I have to set the exposure compensation to -2.3 EV to match the D90 and Z240s)

A very different setting for manual strobe control (e.g. shooting WA). Set the camera (anyone from D70....to...D700 with the pop-up flash) flash to [Manual] to eliminate the pre-flash of the camera. In this case the ACC button of the Z240 should be in the DOWN position. Now we only need a momentary flash signal from the camera to trigger the Z240, hence the output level of the camera can be set to 1/128 or 1/100 (using less energe from the battery).

There are two position in the Power Knob for manual operation of the Z240: M-0.5>-6 means controlling the output of the strobe light between -0.5 EV step to -6 EV steps (refer to the white letters in the EV Control dail, nothing to do with the f-numbers); or FULL meaning each time the strobe will be firing full power. In manual operation you have to judge the exposure by looking at the picture from the LCD, and more accurately from the histogram.

Above settings remain same with normal or rear curtain sync.

Hope everything is clear now.

Edward Lai

Edited by Edward Lai, 07 October 2009 - 10:01 PM.

[JimSwims]

I'm loving the advice on this thread too as I'll be taking my rig for it's maiden voyage in about 24 hrs. This would be a great thread to have pinned



Cheers,
Jim.

[Aqua_soul]

Thanks Eward it sure is becoming clear now. It even gave me more understanding why people would setup custom banks (think thats the term) on their cameras.

I found the command setting, just to earn now it was not needed:))

I still have a question or two and in a day might have another:)

When your setup if for sTTL is you camera flash strength then set to 0.0 (the setting one gets to by pressing the botton below the flash pop up button)?

How did you determine to which value to adjust your exposure compensation? I guess since this setup is for macro it does not have a negative impact on exposing the background and the reason why a different setup is being used for WA?

So is sTTL not at all suitable for WA?

Now we only need a momentary flash signal from the camera to trigger the Z240, hence the output level of the camera can be set to 1/128 or 1/100 (using less energe from the battery).
Will adjusting the camera flash strength (via the botton be low the flash pop up) to say -3 further safe battery power? Or is there a reason for not adjusting this setting?

Once again, Thanks all for this great thread. I agree, it should be pinned.

[Edward Lai]

Thanks Eward it sure is becoming clear now. It even gave me more understanding why people would setup custom banks (think thats the term) on their cameras.

I found the command setting, just to earn now it was not needed:))

I still have a question or two and in a day might have another:)

When your setup if for sTTL is you camera flash strength then set to 0.0 (the setting one gets to by pressing the botton below the flash pop up button)?

How did you determine to which value to adjust your exposure compensation? I guess since this setup is for macro it does not have a negative impact on exposing the background and the reason why a different setup is being used for WA?

So is sTTL not at all suitable for WA?

Now we only need a momentary flash signal from the camera to trigger the Z240, hence the output level of the camera can be set to 1/128 or 1/100 (using less energe from the battery).
Will adjusting the camera flash strength (via the botton be low the flash pop up) to say -3 further safe battery power? Or is there a reason for not adjusting this setting?

Once again, Thanks all for this great thread. I agree, it should be pinned.

Hi,

When I use my D90 with 2X Z240s I set the camera flash exposure compensation to around -2.3 EV (setting the main exposure compensation at M can also control the exposure of TTL flash but it will affect exposure when switched to other modes e.g. A, S, P, Auto etc).

I think the -2.3 EV was needed due to the different characteristic (such as response lag, output curve, cut-off speed etc) between the in-camera pop-up flash and the Inons. As I said, the camera still thinks that it is using its own flash and does not know the existence of the Inons. The Inons fire their pre-flash and main-flash following the flash signal they pick up from the optical connection. The accuracy of the Inons hence rely on the accuracy of the in-camera TTL calculation and this compensation value.

The -2.3 EV I used was based upon the visual result I see from the image review playback and histogram after the shots. Different cameras may need a different value.

The problems oftenly assoicated with inaccurate exposure using TTL for WA are reuslt of the camera TTL, and not of the STTL of the Inons. As explained above, it was the camera which meter the exposure. One of the scenario for example always lead to over-exposure is when you shoot a few fishes with nothing in the background - the small amount of light reflecting from the fishes during metering tend to fool the camera to fire too much flash. And sometimes some fishes are so shinny that even the exposure is correct it still looks too bright.

I do have successful shots using TTL with WA e.g. when shooting a big school of fish (at close distance); or shooting creatures with something in the background; or something big enough to fill a substancial area of the frame.

As for the manual flash setting, the camera will fire the flash according to the output percentage selected, and will not refer to the compensation value, as this value is only used with TTL.

Edward

[tdpriest]

... while inside a metal housing the camera flash can't go through except via the optical bulkheads...

Sadly, this isn't true: light can come around the lens and reflect off the port, particularly a large dome. spoiling the image. Some sort of baffle is needed (I have cut out some plastic rings that fit snugly around the body of the lens).

Tim

[CADiver]

Sadly, this isn't true: light can come around the lens and reflect off the port, particularly a large dome. spoiling the image. Some sort of baffle is needed (I have cut out some plastic rings that fit snugly around the body of the lens).

Tim

Specific for the Nexus D90 housing and ports. The macro port does leak onboard flash light thru the port but the baby dome for Tokina 10-17 doesn't. The zoom ring snug fit the back and side of the dome, so actually it's seal & no light I can see thru the front of the dome. This dome is awsome my friend. The flat port doesn't seal the lens to the port so to speak.

I went out today, one Z240 set at sTTL and another at sTTL-low and shooting 105VR w/ Kenko 1.4. Camera flash set to TTL, all my shot were less then 6 inches to subject and strobe is fairly close to port and I didn't have much over exposure today. Visit my flickrs for a couple photos from today.

Cheers !
Dominic

[tdpriest]

This dome is awsome my friend.

That sounds good, but I've still seen some reflections (using the 10-17mm, the 10.5mm custom Nexus dome and an extension ring) from within the D200 housing.

Tim

[diver dave1]

That sounds good, but I've still seen some reflections (using the 10-17mm, the 10.5mm custom Nexus dome and an extension ring) from within the D200 housing.

Tim

The ZP1017 custom dome for the 10-17 is a very close fit around the lens, about as tight as the zoom ring. I would not expect reflections around it but I have only had it for 2 days of diving so I am far from an expert with it.

[CADiver]

The ZP1017 custom dome for the 10-17 is a very close fit around the lens, about as tight as the zoom ring. I would not expect reflections around it but I have only had it for 2 days of diving so I am far from an expert with it.

Congratulation ! How do you like it's weight and balance ?

[Bubbleshot]

I am sure this is probably not a new subject, so please feel free to redirect me to any old threads.

I am new to the Inon Z240 strobe (type 4). Started diving w/ it and looking for tips.
I set my Nikon to Flash TTL. On a few dives I connected it with optical (& pop up the Nikon flash) and on a few others I connected it with S&S electronic sync cord. Regardless what connection method, I found every switch on the Inon, I can fire. Sttl, stttl-low, Auto, Manual, Full, everyone, it fire. On every switch (may be not Full), I can dial the EV and get fine adjustment. So while that sounds good, it looks like I have no 'sure exposure' in ttl, isn't it ? If I am shooting TTL-low on macro and I can adjust the EV from max to lowest to get the right exposure, then to me it's not TTL anymore ?!
In the last trip, I was shooting 60mm w/ both Z240 situated to the left & right of the port about 6 inches away from the port, connected electornically, I set the Inon on ttl-low with the fine EV dial down to 11. That seems to generate the least amount of output if I set it at TTL, I got over expose result.

Am I mis-using the product ? How do you typically use yours ?

Thanks!
Dominic

Hi Dominic,

I am using about the same configuration as yours: D90 with Hugyfot housing with two Z240 type 3 connected using sea&sea sync cords.
For correct use in TTL mode it does make a difference selecting STTL or STTL-LOW. (Using TTL with electical connection I am not able to "tune"the strobes output! Of cause make shure to supress the pre-flashes!
But while using this set I am facing a problem with the use of TTL. Normally I use manual exposre setting at the D90 with 1/200 shutter speed, stobes in TTL mode and exposure tuned with +/- control at the camera. In theory TTL should garantee correct exposure independant of the chosen aperture. But when I increase apperture setting (from 1/22 --> 1/2.8) each aperture step my exposure will be little lighter! It seems that the strobes don't get correct information from my camera. With the use of eg. -3EV exposure correction (with the +/- button at the D90) I can still get nice exposures at 1/5.6! My strobes can generate low enough output power...
Maybe you are facing the same problem here.

Regards, marco

[Edward Lai]

Hi Dominic,

I am using about the same configuration as yours: D90 with Hugyfot housing with two Z240 type 3 connected using sea&sea sync cords.
For correct use in TTL mode it does make a difference selecting STTL or STTL-LOW. (Using TTL with electical connection I am not able to "tune"the strobes output! Of cause make shure to supress the pre-flashes!
But while using this set I am facing a problem with the use of TTL. Normally I use manual exposre setting at the D90 with 1/200 shutter speed, stobes in TTL mode and exposure tuned with +/- control at the camera. In theory TTL should garantee correct exposure independant of the chosen aperture. But when I increase apperture setting (from 1/22 --> 1/2.8) each aperture step my exposure will be little lighter! It seems that the strobes don't get correct information from my camera. With the use of eg. -3EV exposure correction (with the +/- button at the D90) I can still get nice exposures at 1/5.6! My strobes can generate low enough output power...
Maybe you are facing the same problem here.

Regards, marco

Hi Marco,

I'm afraid the electrical connection doesn't offer you true TTL when used with a DSLR. As described here: http://reefphoto.com...on=kb&article=7, this is for 'old' or 'traditional' film Nikon SLRs, which had very different TTL protocol.

Please read my earlier post #22, #25, #28 about my experience using D90 with Z240 via optical connection.

Edward

[Scubysnaps]

After a relatively good trawl thru this thread, I dont think I have found anyone who has experienced electrical connection and no TTL.
I am still a little confused as to what the bottom right button should be set to?
I've found the flash works ok in Manual and Auto, yet, after trying to decypher the instruction manual again, I am still trying to understand the difference?
Can anyone shed some "light" on these questions?
Cheers
Woody

[diver dave1]

After a relatively good trawl thru this thread, I dont think I have found anyone who has experienced electrical connection and no TTL.
I am still a little confused as to what the bottom right button should be set to?
I've found the flash works ok in Manual and Auto, yet, after trying to decypher the instruction manual again, I am still trying to understand the difference?
Can anyone shed some "light" on these questions?
Cheers
Woody

I think you are referring to the button related to Pre-flash. Some camera's use a pre-flash to measure light, for calculating digital TTL.
The picture next to the button tells the postion to account for pre-flash. I recheck them when I get u/w and notice sometimes one button is out of position, likely due to being pressed getting the rig from setup to u/w. Then I am at the bottom and wondering...now which position was correct again?
Its fairly easy to determine which position they need to be in when diving. Set them both one way, use a small f-stop and quick shutter with camera in MANUAL, take a pic of something with little natural light...if its too dark, move the buttons to the other position, try another pic. Always seems to get me going again when I am diving and brain goes blank.

CADiver, missed your question earlier. LOVED the rig with the little dome. Easy to handle. Just wishing I could fit a Sigma 17-70 into that dome for a variation..and to see how it looked. The 10-17 fit is so tight, I doubt the 17-70 would fit and I do not own a 17-70 to try it.

[Scubysnaps]

Thanks Dave

[Deep6]

Just wishing I could fit a Sigma 17-70 into that dome for a variation..and to see how it looked. The 10-17 fit is so tight, I doubt the 17-70 would fit and I do not own a 17-70 to try it.

Hi Dave,
It's not gonna happen. I use the Siggy 17-70 HSM in the 170 mm port with a 40 mm PE. The lens extends 40 mm from 17 to 70 mm and is rectilinear not FE. You might get it to work in a narrow range with a port extension. Also, within a limited range, the lens will work in the Nexus flat port for the 60 mm Nikkor. With the multiport and the FP, I think it starts vignetting at 20 mm or so. There has been a lot of jabber about using the Tonk 10-17 with and without a Kenko 1.4 TE. That's the next set up I am looking at.
Bob

[CADiver]

Hi Dave,
It's not gonna happen. I use the Siggy 17-70 HSM in the 170 mm port with a 40 mm PE. The lens extends 40 mm from 17 to 70 mm and is rectilinear not FE. You might get it to work in a narrow range with a port extension. Also, within a limited range, the lens will work in the Nexus flat port for the 60 mm Nikkor. With the multiport and the FP, I think it starts vignetting at 20 mm or so. There has been a lot of jabber about using the Tonk 10-17 with and without a Kenko 1.4 TE. That's the next set up I am looking at.
Bob

Part of the reason I like this set up is exactly the ability to just use the 10-17 & add the 1.4. This is really sufficient for my amount of diving and photography. I use to carry 10-17 and 12-24 and 17-50mm and now I just need to add extension ring instead. The baby dome is lot nicer then my periously 8" giant ! In Monterey California, I really don't get to shoot the 10-17 that often, every year I keep telling myself to shoot more WA but by Dec, I look at my logs, still ended up mostly w/ the 60 or 105VR. Oh well, some days when I hit the lottery I will move to somewhere with 72+F water & 75+ft visz.

Have a great up coming thanks giving holiday folks !

Dom

Edited by CADiver, 17 November 2009 - 10:47 PM.