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WING BCD VS REGULAR BCD


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#21 Aqua_soul

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 09:26 PM

I second that Wings in a balanced setup most certainly don't push me face down in the water. And keeping my head high enough out of the water in choppy conditions, haven't even though of this as it never been a problem.

#22 John Bantin

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 02:20 AM

I have actually used nearly every wing and regular BC on the market (no kidding!)

An oversized wing is a pain in the arse to get all the gas out of during an ascent if you use it with a single tank.
A properly fitting conventional BC is ideal for most underwater photographers. Note I said properly fitting.

All my opinions about this stuff can be found on www.divernet.com under the Diving Gear Button (if you are REALLY interested).

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#23 Andy Morrison

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:21 AM

I use a wing for both doubles and single tank diving. I love both setups. My single rig packs small and light and requires little additional weight when diving a 3mil suit. Both of my rigs are minimalist in design and trim well.

I don't notice the pitching forward problem on the surface that some mention.

I think, especially as photographers, its more important that you are comfortable with whatever you dive and decrease task loading as much as possible so we can focus on making pictures.

#24 Deep6

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 08:22 AM

I have actually used nearly every wing and regular BC on the market (no kidding!)

An oversized wing is a pain in the arse to get all the gas out of during an ascent if you use it with a single tank.
A properly fitting conventional BC is ideal for most underwater photographers. Note I said properly fitting.

All my opinions about this stuff can be found on www.divernet.com under the Diving Gear Button (if you are REALLY interested).

Well, I am Mr. Bantin.
I checked out the divenet articles wherein the aforementioned bares all. I recently tried on several BC including some hybrid types. One that I liked weighed 9 lbs! My old Oceanic back wing BC weighs a little over 6 lbs. I think Ill patch it up for another season. I returned to full fins last season (per you advice) and I am very pleased with the weight reduction and the performance of the fins and less stress on my ankles.

Some of the reviews are dated. May be you will consider reviewing more current gear for functionality and travel weight.
Bob

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#25 John Bantin

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 09:51 AM

Well, I am Mr. Bantin.
I checked out the divenet articles wherein the aforementioned bares all. I recently tried on several BC including some hybrid types. One that I liked weighed 9 lbs! My old Oceanic back wing BC weighs a little over 6 lbs. I think Ill patch it up for another season. I returned to full fins last season (per you advice) and I am very pleased with the weight reduction and the performance of the fins and less stress on my ankles.

Some of the reviews are dated. May be you will consider reviewing more current gear for functionality and travel weight.
Bob



Did you follow this link?

http://www.divernet....3000/1/0/25/BC/

I buy my own photographic kit. Diving equipment manufacturers and diving services suppliers get even-handed treatment from me whether they choose to advertise in the publications I write for or not. All the equipment I get on loan is returned as soon as it is finished with. Did you know you can now get Diver Mag as an iPad/Android app?

 

#26 scorpio_fish

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 01:13 PM

If I clip my very negative camera rig to a d-ring near my a**, I will float upright after losing consciousness. :lol:

I like back inflate. I prefer the comfort underwater over the comfort at the surface. One can float on one's back if you take enough air out of the wing, although the camera rig itself can be a hindrance. The smaller the wing, the better.

Significant time on the surface in rough seas is not typical of the diving I do. If it were, I might have a different preference.

My goal for 2010 is to piece together a back inflate system with weight integration and proper d-rings and lift that weighs in at 2.2 kgs or less dry.
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#27 Deep6

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 02:19 PM

My goal for 2010 is to piece together a back inflate system with weight integration and proper d-rings and lift that weighs in at 2.2 kgs or less dry.

Mares Pegasus?
Bob

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#28 MIKE POWELL

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 03:52 PM

I recently purchased a ScubaPro Classic Plus after using a jacket type BC for years and then switching to a rear inflate BC when I got into photography. I'm sure I could have become accustomed to the rear inflate or wing type if I dove more often, but my experience with shore dives and poor navigation skills caused me to do more surface swims with the rear inflate than I like to admit which seemed to give me major calve cramps. Anyway the Classic Plus is suppose to be the best of both worlds....we'll see if it does the trick or not.

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#29 scorpio_fish

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 08:52 AM

Mares Pegasus?
Bob


Mares Pegasus = 7.7lbs. with 44lbs. of lift.
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#30 eyu

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 01:08 PM

I just changed to a regular BCD and picked up a Cressi travelight that weighs 5.7 lbs.

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#31 ce4jesus

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 08:49 AM

I've used both and as a preference I prefer the jacket style. I have a Mares Dragon which I like a lot. It is one of the supposed hybrid styles but I find it more like a jacket. I had a back inflation but found it uncomfortable at the surface even at the start of the dive it was difficult to stay upright. This was even with the heaviest of my weight in the rear pockets. Additionally a photographer in the water usually isn't streamlined but has no problem keeping a prone diving position due to the additional weight of the camera.
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#32 Deep6

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 02:44 PM

My goal for 2010 is to piece together a back inflate system with weight integration and proper d-rings and lift that weighs in at 2.2 kgs or less dry.

Please post if you find such a critter.
Bob

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#33 Drew

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 11:45 PM

The Aqualung Zuma is 4.2 lbs (I weighed it myself) for a M/L. It's backinflation with no backplate. Flimsy plastic D rings but man is it light! I will buy one once one of my rigs get stolen or broken (but I've been say that for years and they won't go anywhere!) :) It does fit my carry everything you need as hand luggage packability criteria. But I haven't gone to those sort of places for a while.
Now for proper D ringed, I also tried the Seacsub icaro. Really liked it, especially the design. First time my gf called a BC sexy! Weighs in at 2.7kg for a M/L. I'd just add a thin Dive Rite Crotch strap (and cut off that scooter ring).

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#34 stewsmith

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 12:31 AM

Scubapro Knighthawk for me. Very light compared to my older T52. Very well made. Fitted with Air2. Nice and streamlined, great for finning in currents as drag is next to nothing. Whatever you buy, make sure it fits !!!!!

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#35 offthegrid

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:20 AM

I know this is an old one, but **** this argument annoys me!

You're unconscious on the surface. Do you want to be floating face up or face down? Wings - face down, jacket style - face up. Just something to consider.

Spoken like a true diver who's never even dove one.

As other have noted the argument that is often used against backplates is the theory that they push you face down in the water. To be honest I never noticed a difference in surface stability/position from backplates to jacket styles. I think this is an unsubstantiated rumour that has become gospel through repetition.

Couldn't agree more. And mostly through repetition on message board by people who never even used one or best, maybe tried it on one dive. Just about everyone in the NE dives a wing, and I've not heard anyone complain about floating face down.

Sometimes, rumors begin from truths too. It's plain physics. If you have no rear weight balance, and all the weight is on your waist and inflation is behind you, you will tip forward. That's why quite a few people use them, to stay more horizontal, face forward. That's why there are trim weight pockets to fine tune the balance.

Internet physics has nothing on real world testing by thousands of divers.

For those of you who have actually used one and experienced the face down thing, I think your rig needed tuning. You were either over weighted, needed your weights distributed better, tank moved, or something else. Since I've made the switch, I've dove 3 different wings, with both AL and SS plates, singles, doubles, and rebreather for a short while, and never been face down...even with my camera rig clipped to a D ring. If I inflate the wing all the way (even a 40# doubles wing, with a single AL tank) I can lean back and almost lay on it like a small raft. Yet once below the surface, I'm horizontal, and can get in just about any position I want.

Edited by grunzster, 12 November 2010 - 07:21 AM.


#36 ChrigelKarrer

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 09:56 AM

I only made the OWD course and then switched to a ss backplate 40lbs bladder wing.
I also own a Zeagle Ranger and a Scubapro Knighthawk wing bcd and i use them for giving diving lessons as using a wing with beginners is not really recommened.
I belive that a 40lbs bladder with a steel tank and a SS backplate provide enough "back"lift to avoid to tip over but this depend also on wet/drysuit and weightdistibution.
I also belive that a normal jacket style bcd will lead also to drowning because the head of a uncosious person will turn left or right and so he may inhale water as well.
If a jacket style bcd is not fully inflated the diver may flip over and drown as well.
The only BCD's i know who keep a unconscious diver in a "safe" position are Adjustable Buoyancy Life Jackets, ABLJs, or Horsecollar BC.
In the manual of almost all jackets - wings included - style bcd's is written that the are not a flotation device and that the don't keep divers ead out of the water.

I prefer my ss backplate wing as it provides me with the - for me - right weight distribution.
The weight of a short 12liter steel tank and the ss backplate give ma a I___o position with the fins high up to avoid touching something and stir up sediments.

Chris

Edited by ChrigelKarrer, 12 November 2010 - 09:57 AM.

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#37 MIKE POWELL

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 11:48 AM

Who said this was an argument?

CHILL and dive with whatever BC works best for YOU!

NE divers...'git outa here wid dat'!??

quote name='grunzster' date='Nov 12 2010, 09:20 AM' post='265869']
I know this is an old one, but **** this argument annoys me!

Spoken like a true diver who's never even dove one.

Couldn't agree more. And mostly through repetition on message board by people who never even used one or best, maybe tried it on one dive. Just about everyone in the NE dives a wing, and I've not heard anyone complain about floating face down.

Internet physics has nothing on real world testing by thousands of divers.

For those of you who have actually used one and experienced the face down thing, I think your rig needed tuning. You were either over weighted, needed your weights distributed better, tank moved, or something else. Since I've made the switch, I've dove 3 different wings, with both AL and SS plates, singles, doubles, and rebreather for a short while, and never been face down...even with my camera rig clipped to a D ring. If I inflate the wing all the way (even a 40# doubles wing, with a single AL tank) I can lean back and almost lay on it like a small raft. Yet once below the surface, I'm horizontal, and can get in just about any position I want.
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#38 offthegrid

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 04:22 PM

Who said this was an argument?

CHILL and dive with whatever BC works best for YOU!

NE divers...'git outa here wid dat'!??

It's only an argument in the sense that people continue to post the same BS over and over again that simply isn't based in any fact. Otherwise, I agree 100%. Dive whatever works the best for you. I'm personally going through a transition with my own gear right now.

I didn't mean that as "us big tough macho NE divers" or however it was you took that. I was simply trying to make the point, that "A LOT" of divers from where I'm from dive them, and not once have I heard some one complain about the mystery face down in the water thing.

#39 tangler

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:20 AM

My single tank setup is:

SS backplate
weighted single tank adapter
30lb Oxycheq Mach V wing (love this baby)
basic hog harness

Before switching to above I used a Scubapro stab jacket BCD for many years following by a Zeagle Ranger. The latter was OK, but overkill: too much lift, too much bulk, too many "bits". I'd never go back now. I find the BP/wing so comfortable, secure feeling, uncluttered, and streamlined. For travel I can ditch the STA and swap out the SS plate for an ultra-lightweight one. The whole rig weights next to nothing and packs down small. I've also never had a problem with being pushed forward at the surface. I think this stems from too much air in the bladder. If you only inflate enough to raise the head out of the water there's no issue. I also don't miss BC pockets at all. I always found them in an awkward place and a bit of a fumble to use. Thigh pockets at the right level are the only way to go.

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#40 wizbowes

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:39 PM

Never really understood this argument from either point of view. I dive in a BCD but never put any air in it unless I have a wait on the surface. If I'm putting air in my bcd whilst diving then I'm overweighted (single tank set-up). Therefore my position in the water is determined only by the position of my trim weights. Am I missing something?