21 replies to this topic

[Cal]

Hey team,

I currently shoot my models with a nikon d80. I feel that my shots are quite cartoony - i.e. They just dont feel as crisp as I think they should. Now I wonder whether this is just classic 'gear envy' and maybe i'm imagining it. I have the option of using a Canon 5d that a friend has for my business. Should I invest in a new housing, single wide angle lens and one dome port ? or would it be ineffective on a basic COST TO BENEFIT RATIO?

I know there are many of this threads but this is a big choice for me so (being dirt poor) so I was after a bit of one on one advice.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Cal

[Steve Williams]

Hey Cal,
How about borrowing a 5D housing from one of our friends down there? Throw one of your ladies in the pool and try it out for a day. You may be dreaming about the cartoons. Process the 5D shots the way you always do and see what you think. Just a thought.

Steve

[JackConnick]

I think I'd put my money into lenses, they are the single most important aspect to quality, and strobes are a close second. The D80 is a great body for it's cost.

Jack

[MikeVeitch]

I would wait for the next generation Nikon, that way you don't have to sell and buy new lenses as well.

5D is rather old now as well.. (can't believe i just said that)

What housing do you use? you may be able to stuff a d90 in it?

[Cal]

Thanks guys,

I use an Ikelite housing so would a d90 fit in it?

Steve- I dont know anyone with a 5d but thats a great suggestion! It may very well be my post processing.

Mike - I am not a tech guy so excuse my ignorance. I am worried that the next generation will be full frame and as such, my lens wouldnt be suitable? Additionally, I would only need one lens for the new camera so it may not be that much of an additional cost ( as opposed to wildlife work where you need many lens i.e. macro, supermacro, wide angle etc)

Its been ages since i've even thought about gear and upgrading!

Cheers

Cal

[JimSwims]

FYI- from Pandas blog D90 in Ikelite D80

Jim

[james]

Interesting question Cal. You're basically asking two questions: Should I go FF and Should I switch lens mounts?

Addressing the first one: for underwater shooting in the pool, you'll want a lens of 16-35 range. The Canon 17-40L is great but costs about US $575 used or 700 new. The Sigma or Tamron equivalent isn't bad but it's not good either :-( So you're looking at a lens cost. But the payoff is huge - as a lot of the pool shooting involves high DR with light and shadows being VERY important.

Now should you switch camps...hmm. If you're used to Nikon why not stick with it? Their flash system is better so that's a big draw. On the other hand, you can get a 12 megapixel 5D (comparable to the D700 in the pool - whatever they may say) for a very low cost.

Cheers
James

[MikeVeitch]

nah, i doubt Nikon will do away with the crop sensor just yet.

I also imagine image quality is better on d90 than 5d? but not sure about that, i will let the techies chat about that.. i keep away from those arguments

[Drew]

Cartoony results could be your lens, post process or your unrealistic expectations pixel peeping. Going from 10 to 12 mp isn't going to make that much of a difference, and full frame brings in additional problems with dome ports and corners in wide angle. If Zena and Todd don't have issues with cropped sensors, I doubt you will too. Now if you want more resolution, I'd save your pennies now and wait for a used Canon 1DsMkII to drop (like it is right now!). At 17mp, it has the resolution to outshine all 12mp cameras. Sure it doesn't have 14bit processing or 102800 ISO but if you need all that, then you wouldn't be looking at the D90/5D either.
Otherwise I'd suggest you post 100% crops of your cartoons in postprocessing sub forum and see if it's your pp or lens.

[loftus]

Cal,
What lens(es) do you shoot in the pool?
Unless you just feel your images lack resolution, enough detail, I don't think changing cameras or increasing resolution will make a difference in 'the look' you are getting. The only thing a 5D will give you is very slightly better resolution over what you have and better noise performance, which is not an issue in the pool.

[Otara]

Cal the only reason I can think of for you upgrading is if you're missing out on 'jobs' because they say the file is too small, or dont like the output.

As long as they're happy, why rush?

As you know, Im the king of buying 'in between' things and regretting it. If you are going to go full frame, wait till you can get something more modern is my advice, and dont change brands unless you think theres no other option.

Otara

[Cal]

Thanks for the brilliant replies guys,

Great to know theres such a strong community out there :-)

I've got a lot to think about - and a lot of reading to do.

my current lens is the tokina 10-17mm.

Cheers

Cal

[loftus]

Thanks for the brilliant replies guys,

Great to know theres such a strong community out there :-)

I've got a lot to think about - and a lot of reading to do.

my current lens is the tokina 10-17mm.

Cheers

Cal

If you already shoot the 10-17, I would say that you should add another lens like the 12-24 or 17-35 to your arsenal. Not to use it all the time, but particularly some of your close up portraits you will find less 'cartoony'. Remember, if you go with the 5D you will lose the use of the 10-17 unless you buy a Canon version, add a TC etc. Before I used my D700 I used the D200 which is the same sensor as the D200, and changing cameras did not make a significant difference in image quality in the pool.
So I think you need more flexibility in lenses first.

Edited by loftus, 01 December 2009 - 05:02 AM.

[Cal]

Thanks Loftus,

"Before I used my D700 I used the D200 which is the same sensor as the D200" - Great to hear.

So many options.................

Cal

[loftus]

Thanks Loftus,

"Before I used my D700 I used the D200 which is the same sensor as the D200" - Great to hear.

So many options.................

Cal

He, he, meant D80 ....little typo, pity spellcheck does not pick up brain farts.

Edited by loftus, 03 December 2009 - 03:48 AM.

[james]

Someone was selling a full Subal 5D setup on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It didn't sell so maybe you should take a shot at it Cal :-) This housing can also be upgraded for the 5DII ;-)

Cheers
James

[Cal]

That ebay item has a postage of over $1000. Whats with that?

Cal

[loftus]

Cal,
I personally think you'd be crazy to change to a 5D. I hardly think you could hardly call it a true upgrade; the technology is I believe already 5-6 years old - ancient in digital technology terms. Sure it's a camera with a great full frame sensor, but has 'issues' in other ways, including relatively inferior focusing system, slower frame rate, no built in flash etc. Most importantly, as others and myself have mentioned before, it's more likely that the 'cartoony' problems that are prompting you to do this are much more likely to be perspective and lens related than camera related.
At least from what I've seen of your work, there are no issues that I can see that are related to pixel count or full frame vs dx, in fact I think the quality of your images is great, and I would bet that using an equivalent lens setup on a 5D, we'd be hard pressed to see a difference on anything you post online - prints I agree would be better, but the cartoony effect you worry about would not change.
If I were you, save your pennies, if you truly want to upgrade, look for a used D300 or D700, but more importantly invest in the glass!

[davichin]

Hello Cal,

First of all, I don´t find your pics cartoony at all.

I would recommend the sigma 10-20 over other rectilinear zoom wide lenses because its close focus abilities make it more resistant to the problems in the corners etc... I would also recommend you to try to postprocess the raw files with Capture NX, as I can never get the same colours etc... with either PS or Lightroom (I am very poor skilled with any program but I found the NX to be very good and easy)... And, before going to a 5D, I would try a D90 or a D300.

Good luck!

[Alex_Mustard]

Hey Cal,

You're welcome to try my D700 when we're down in Melbourne in Feb.

Alex