Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Orphan Works bill in the UK


  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#41 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:33 AM

Actually I suspect that the real problem will be international. Using an 'orphan' image whose owner then turns up and is not a UK national may mean that using the image (especially if its use on a world wide basis) is simply a breach of copyright in another country. I can't see a way around this and the result may be that UK users of 'orphan' works simply find themselves in trouble outside the UK. Overseas photographers take note, your images may be unsafe within the UK!


Orphans are everywhere. One country is indeed going it alone......

All those images posted without identifying "my picture, my property, not yours" will be considered fair game once the law passes. Its great to show and share but for some the web is just one big, fat bucket of commercial resource that can be raided with minimal risk of penalty. It is called infringement, but that's about to change. Orphan works will legitimize this activity and the monies go to our government.

As a UK tax payer, facing a lifelong burden of bank bailout induced national debt, I should be grateful for every orphan that is found, licensed, used for whatever purpose and the money unclaimed. Unclaimed cash will go towards paying off the mountain of money the government gave to failed banks. But I just can't do it. Commercial exploitation of another photographers' creative endeavors is fine when the person holding the camera is rewarded, but orphan works rewards the uninvolved, the disconnected and undeserving and I just cannot endorse it. What our government is proposing is morally wrong.

Two things:-

1. Mark every image you ever post anywhere my picture, my property, not yours and embed your contact details in the metadata. Do it and do it now.
2. Write to your MP. Keep up the pressure. If you have had a reply, the chances are the reasoning is full of holes, lies and technically impossible ideas. Write back and point out the failings of their arguments.

An election is coming. There is a very undemocratic process called "Washup" were a few MPs get together and quickly rubber stamp legislation. If you want to legitimize orphan works, then sit back and do nothing. The MPs think there is no problem......if you disagree take action.

There is plenty of material here Why orphan works legislation is so wrong
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#42 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 18 March 2010 - 11:34 PM

There is a nice illustration pointing out just one possible outcome of orphan works:-

Posted Image

And there is a nice shot of our Dear Leader, Gordon Brown, here:-

Posted Image

Two examples of how an image could be used if orphan works pass into law.

If you want to take action, please visit Stop 43 for more info
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#43 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 20 March 2010 - 05:39 AM

Here's another example of how an orphan work could find itself being used.....

Posted Image

Objectionable? Yes. Want to stop orphan works? Go to Stop 43
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#44 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 25 March 2010 - 11:22 AM

I met with my MP today. I had put together an "orphan" of my own. I won't divulge the content or nature of my orphan, but it left my MP in no doubt the implications of allowing orphan works into the market place.

There is a central site now, a focus of dissent - Stop43 - and there is a link to a Facebook group.

There are cracks appearing, but now is not the time to let up, loosen the thumbscrews and let Mandelson & Co off the hook. Contact your MP, raise your concerns and keep the pressure up.
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#45 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 25 March 2010 - 11:52 PM

Getty, the international stock library representing many fine photographers, has thrown its collective weight against Clause 43 and orphan works.

More here Getty wades in.....

Edited by decosnapper, 25 March 2010 - 11:52 PM.

Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#46 Paul Kay

Paul Kay

    Giant Squid

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1723 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Wales, UK

Posted 26 March 2010 - 10:02 AM

Number 10 petition her (UK Nationals only may sign):

http://petitions.num...opyrightreform/
Paul Kay, Canon EOS5D/5DII, SEACAM/S45, 15, 24L, 60/2.8 (+Ext12II) & 100/2.8 Macros - UK/Ireland Seacam Sales underseacameras & marinewildlife & paulkayphotography & welshmarinefish

#47 Tjsnapper

Tjsnapper

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampshire, England

Posted 26 March 2010 - 10:28 AM

Number 10 petition her (UK Nationals only may sign):

http://petitions.num...opyrightreform/


Signed !!
No diving for 3 weeks-- work work work.
Web:www.tristanjonesphotography.com
Email:info@tristanjonesphotography.com
Blog:Visit My Blog

#48 Tjsnapper

Tjsnapper

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hampshire, England

Posted 28 March 2010 - 05:53 AM

It was good to see plenty of support for the stop 43 campaign at LIDS the "shark in a tin" label was used to great effect on virtually al the photo stands there.
No diving for 3 weeks-- work work work.
Web:www.tristanjonesphotography.com
Email:info@tristanjonesphotography.com
Blog:Visit My Blog

#49 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:33 AM

It was good to see plenty of support for the stop 43 campaign at LIDS the "shark in a tin" label was used to great effect on virtually al the photo stands there.


I had 400 printed up for the very purpose........The Shark Trust stand took a few, BSOUP had the majority and the rest were distributed on the surrounding stands. It might have just been the best 50 I ever spent......

It was indeed good to see people engage with Stop43. Thanks for spotting it Tjsnapper.

Edited by decosnapper, 28 March 2010 - 06:34 AM.

Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#50 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:31 PM

There has been another "orphan" released, this time featuring Peter Mandelson (unelected sponsor of Clause 43 - orphan works) and David Cameron, leader of the Conservative opposition party.

Dave is advertising skin care cream and Mandelson, with his love for russian oligarch super yachts, is advertising russian vodka. In both cases the slogans translate as "When only the very best is good enough".

Posted Image

In either case, the scenario is the advertising company did not know who the subject was in the photo, but it suited their brand needs and requirements so the licensed the image use (after a "diligent" search, or just removing the metadata and claiming "diligent") from our government.

Unintended consequences indeed.
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#51 Paul Kay

Paul Kay

    Giant Squid

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1723 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Wales, UK

Posted 01 April 2010 - 12:33 AM

There has been another "orphan" released, this time featuring Peter Mandelson (unelected sponsor of Clause 43 - orphan works) and David Cameron, leader of the Conservative opposition party.

Dave is advertising skin care cream and Mandelson, with his love for russian oligarch super yachts, is advertising russian vodka. In both cases the slogans translate as "When only the very best is good enough".

In either case, the scenario is the advertising company did not know who the subject was in the photo, but it suited their brand needs and requirements so the licensed the image use (after a "diligent" search, or just removing the metadata and claiming "diligent") from our government.

Unintended consequences indeed.

Not so sure on this one. I've a sneaking suspicion that it might give them both ideas rather than highlight the orphan works bill :) !
Paul Kay, Canon EOS5D/5DII, SEACAM/S45, 15, 24L, 60/2.8 (+Ext12II) & 100/2.8 Macros - UK/Ireland Seacam Sales underseacameras & marinewildlife & paulkayphotography & welshmarinefish

#52 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 01 April 2010 - 01:06 AM

Not so sure on this one. I've a sneaking suspicion that it might give them both ideas rather than highlight the orphan works bill :) !


I have a sneaking suspicion that Mandy will be on the phone this morning to the Intellectual Property Office, tearing David Lammy a new a***hole out of his backside when he sees the ad.

Having said that, either or both of the subjects portrayed might be looking for a new job once the election is decided. When I shared a printed copy with the Lib Democrats and Tories it certainly raised a chuckle.
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#53 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 04 April 2010 - 12:04 AM

The Stop43 campaign has a new poster child:-

Posted Image
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#54 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 06 April 2010 - 02:22 AM

Well our PM has called an election and the date is set for the 6th of May.

The Digital Economy Bill and it's obnoxious Clause 43 dealing with orphan works will now be dealt with in a matter of hours or days.

Watch this space......
Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#55 Paul Kay

Paul Kay

    Giant Squid

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1723 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Wales, UK

Posted 08 April 2010 - 12:19 AM

The government backed down on Clause 43 :goodpost: !!!

http://www.guardian....s-third-reading

http://www.stop43.or...aa2dbbbb-62.php

Rather to my surprise some degree of common sense seems to have prevailed.
Paul Kay, Canon EOS5D/5DII, SEACAM/S45, 15, 24L, 60/2.8 (+Ext12II) & 100/2.8 Macros - UK/Ireland Seacam Sales underseacameras & marinewildlife & paulkayphotography & welshmarinefish

#56 wizbowes

wizbowes

    Moray Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 April 2010 - 03:10 AM

The government backed down on Clause 43 :goodpost: !!!

http://www.guardian....s-third-reading

http://www.stop43.or...aa2dbbbb-62.php

Rather to my surprise some degree of common sense seems to have prevailed.


Bloody hell - who'd have thought it? Plenty still to hate about his bill but it does seem that sense has prevailed in this case.

Simon - thanks for work on this - you've had a positive affect on the laws in this country.

#57 John Bantin

John Bantin

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1857 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Teddington/Twickenham UK
  • Interests:former Technical Editor of
    Diver Magazine (UK) and www.divernet.com
    occasional contributor
    SportDiver (Aus)
    Undercurrent
    Author of Amazing Diving Stories (Wiley Nautical)

Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:03 AM

Phewwwwww!

I buy my own photographic kit. Diving equipment manufacturers and diving services suppliers get even-handed treatment from me whether they choose to advertise in the publications I write for or not. All the equipment I get on loan is returned as soon as it is finished with. Did you know you can now get Diver Mag as an iPad/Android app?

 

#58 TheRealDrew

TheRealDrew

    Humpback Whale

  • Moderator
  • 2854 posts

Posted 08 April 2010 - 05:41 AM

The government backed down on Clause 43 :D !!!

Rather to my surprise some degree of common sense seems to have prevailed.


Wow. :beer: Great job to all who worked to bring this to people's attention (I know Simon, and others, put alot of work in on it)

Well done all....

#59 decosnapper

decosnapper

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 419 posts

Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:13 AM

Stop43 has indeed been a success way beyond my wildest dreams. A lot of people - everyone from those who wrote to their MPs to Paul Ellis who ran the website and updated hourly - worked on this and this is truly a collaborative win. The bombardment of letters and tweets ensured that direct lobbying was not painless, but the arguments and reason really hit home. Everyone will have seen the viral fake orphans, but there was another, far more obnoxious variant that was shared face-to-face with MPs. It killed the argument around commercial exploitation in a single blow. This orphan went through my shredder last night. It's work was done and I was glad to see the back of it.

Around midday yesterday I was on the phone again to the Liberal Democrats, lining myself up for a "why your amendments are so wrong" conversation when the researcher congratulated stop43 and said it was over......it took a bit of patient explaining on his behalf but the government-backed amendment removing Clause 43 was pretty much a done deal. It will be a moment to savor for years to come.

A team effort. Now I can get back to creating images.

Edited by decosnapper, 08 April 2010 - 08:16 AM.

Simon Brown

www.simonbrownimages.com

#60 Simon Rogerson

Simon Rogerson

    Wolf Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 134 posts

Posted 09 April 2010 - 12:17 PM

Amazing, and great news. Well done and a doff of the cap to Simon and all the others who campaigned on this.