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INON UFL-MR130 EFS60 Underwater Micro Semi-Fisheye Relay Lens in Action!


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#21 nathanm

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 07:20 AM

I am very interested in this lens! Here are some questions for those of you who have one.

1. What are the prospects of getting adatpers for housings other than Inon? I use Seacam.

2. I use Canon EOS 1D Mark III and 1DS Mark III. The Inon lens appears to be made only for the Canon APS-C sensor camears with the 60mm macro lens. I don't have an APS-C camera, and of course even if I did get a 50D etc then it wouldn't fit my housing. I don't know if the Canon 60mm macro lens would physically mount on the EOS cameras - if it did, then presumably I could use it - although with some vignetting. Does anybody know if you can put the required lens on a EOS 1-series camera? If I have to buy an APS-C sensor camera, AND a new housing, this will be a pretty expensive set up. At that point I might as well get the Inon housing and forget about the adapter.

3. Some of the postings say that you focus manually, other say that autofocus (presumably on the 60mm lens, not on the Inon lens) works well.

4. Will it focus in air? Seems like an odd question, I know, but I have a topside photo project where this would be very cool, and this would help justify getting it.

5. Any idea what delivery time is? Are they shipping now, or is this early production period? I have a dive trips in January...

Nathan

#22 bvanant

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 05:10 PM

I am very interested in this lens! Here are some questions for those of you who have one.

1. What are the prospects of getting adatpers for housings other than Inon? I use Seacam.

2. I use Canon EOS 1D Mark III and 1DS Mark III. The Inon lens appears to be made only for the Canon APS-C sensor camears with the 60mm macro lens. I don't have an APS-C camera, and of course even if I did get a 50D etc then it wouldn't fit my housing. I don't know if the Canon 60mm macro lens would physically mount on the EOS cameras - if it did, then presumably I could use it - although with some vignetting. Does anybody know if you can put the required lens on a EOS 1-series camera? If I have to buy an APS-C sensor camera, AND a new housing, this will be a pretty expensive set up. At that point I might as well get the Inon housing and forget about the adapter.

3. Some of the postings say that you focus manually, other say that autofocus (presumably on the 60mm lens, not on the Inon lens) works well.

4. Will it focus in air? Seems like an odd question, I know, but I have a topside photo project where this would be very cool, and this would help justify getting it.

5. Any idea what delivery time is? Are they shipping now, or is this early production period? I have a dive trips in January...

Nathan

The lens as far as I know is optimized for the 60 mm macro lens only and that lens will not physically fit on the non-EFS Canon cameras. It also only mounts AFAIK to the Inon lens port that holds the 60 mm so I am thinking you are not going to be able to run it with your setup. Eric Cheng has Seacam 5D mark IIs and it seems like he bought the Inon housing and a 50D just to use this setup and if could have worked with the Seacam I am guessing he would have run it that way. I have an adapter for Subal housings that lets me use the Inon port and you probably could get an adapter made that let you stick the Inon 60 mm port on your seacam but I am still not sure it would ever focus. Apparently, Reef has them available but I don't know the lead time. For land use you could buy a real endoscope and mount it to your camera pretty easily I think but not so cheap.

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#23 cho

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:24 AM

Test of INON UFL-MR130 vs Tokina 10-17mm


2 weeks ago I took a picture by using inon semi fisheye lens and tokina 10-17 in anilao . I prepare Pinocchio lens with canon 50D in Inon housing and tokina plus 1.4 teleconverter with Fuji S 5 pro in Nexus. I recognized inon setting have some advantages and some disadvantages in comparison with tokina.

1. Positive aspect Of Inon

1) You can take a picture of very tiny stuffs- you can get higher magnification ratio..

2) Easy to approach to critter.

2. Negative aspect of Inon

1) Very critical focusing. After several dives and field pin test, I recognize true focusing point is a little bit behind than exact point where view finder shown.---I will ask to inon distributor,

2) You can not use auto focusing and precise TTL.

3) Complete inon setting made me feel heavier than my nexus Nikon setting in underwater.

]

The other interesting point is depth of field. I can not be convinced of the evidence that new inon Pinocchio setting have deeper depth of field in background of picture.


Upper 2 are done by Inon Pinocchio semifisheye setting,and lower 2 are Tokina plus 1.4 teleconverter with Fuji S 5 pro.
5__1_of_1_.jpg Inon 1/250 s f 22 Iso 200



IMG_0986.jpg Inon 1/ 80 s f 16 ISO
7__1_of_1_.jpg Tokina 1/ 125s f 22 ISO 200

4__1_of_1_.jpg Tokina 1/60s f 14 ISO 200

Edited by cho, 09 January 2010 - 06:53 AM.


#24 Steve Williams

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 10:47 AM

Great stuff Cho, Love the Tokina shots. Thanks for adding the camera settings.

Cheers,
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Edited by Steve Williams, 08 January 2010 - 10:34 PM.

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#25 james

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 11:50 AM

This is an excellent comparison. Thanks Cho.

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#26 cho

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:12 PM

Great stuff Cho, Love the Tokina shots. Were the camera settings the same? shutter speed, etc.

Cheers,
Steve

Thank you

I wil put the data. All those are a littlle bit different in meta data. So , it was not absolute comparision. Next week , I will try absolute compare with same stuffs and shutter speed , f stop ect...

#27 wackydiver

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:13 PM

[size="4"][size="3"]OH! this is great subject. I'm want to expand my lens stock and want a wide angle or slightly fisheye type lens. Thought maybe the Tonika 11x16 and want some other suggestions. Shooting a D200 in a Sea and Sea housing with one strobe right now. I have loved my shots with 60 and 105 lenses and have added a 2X screw on the lens diopter. Now just want to be more artsy and do some more wide angle macro. Looks like your 10X17 is doing a good job. Any more hints? Marilyn

#28 stever

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:19 PM

these are great shots. maybe it's the focusing, but i like the 10-17 better

motivates me to try a 1.4x on the 11-16

#29 stever

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:54 PM

what, if anything did you do about a zoom gear when adding the 1.4x? or did you choose a focal length, what focal length are these shots?

what kind of dome with the 10-17?

#30 cho

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 01:35 AM

what, if anything did you do about a zoom gear when adding the 1.4x? or did you choose a focal length, what focal length are these shots?

what kind of dome with the 10-17?



Thankyou

I used nexus dome port , exclusive use for 10-17 plus extension ring and, also have zoom gear for this setting, and focal lenth was 17 mm, thank you

Edited by cho, 09 January 2010 - 02:33 AM.


#31 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:11 AM

Great stuff, Cho. I think we should merge this with the other thread on the INON lens - so that all the info is in one place for future reference.

I imagine many people will be buying and trying this lens during 2010, so it would be good to have one authoritative thread - all the info in one place.

Alex

p.s. I will try and merge it - but I am not very good with the merge controls.

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#32 Drew

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 06:33 AM

If the pinocchio works with the EFS60mm only then a full frame camera like the 5D2 can use a 12mm extension tube on the 60mm. Now the issue of it working on other ports is getting adapters made for it. I'm actually wondering why Canon was chosen . Is it because of the 1.6 crop?

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#33 loftus

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 07:35 AM

If the problem with the Nikon is vignetting, can the image not be cropped? Would it work with the Nikon 35mm Macro DX?
Sharpness with this setup seems to be limited, from the images posted, particularly for large prints.

Edited by loftus, 09 January 2010 - 07:42 AM.

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#34 nathanm

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 09:26 AM

If the pinocchio is works with the EFS60mm only then a full frame camera like the 5D2 can use a 12mm extension tube on the 60mm. Now the issue of it working on other ports is getting adapters made for it. I'm actually wondering why Canon was chosen . Is it because of the 1.6 crop?

This sort of relay lens creates an "aerial image" which is then captured on the sensor using a conventional lens on the camera body. The aerial image appears to the lens on the camera body like it was an object within the focus distance. This is similar to what happens with dome ports - the dome is a lens that creates an aerial image that the wide angle lens on the camera then images. You sometimes need close up diopters because the aerial image from the dome can be closer than the lens normally focuses.

Inon had to chose some host camera/lens configuration to optimize this for and pretty much make it dedicated. Since Inon only makes housings for Canon 40D/50D and Olympus, they had a pretty restricted set of choices. Between the two, Canon is probably has higher sales and the 60mm EF-S lens may be a better base than the Olympus equivalent.

Presumably it will work on other housings with the same Canon 60mm EF-S lens if there is a port adapter that keeps the relay lens in the exact position relative to the camera lens as on the Inon housing.

I doubt that it will work if you use an extention tube to mate the 60mm lens onto a full-frame Canon camera. The relay lens puts the aerial image in a particular location and with a 12mm extension tube the focusing of the 60mm lens will be shifted.

If there was an adapter to use small sensor Canon lenses on full frame Canon bodies, which focussed at infinity, then that could work, but it would not cover the full sensor. That would be OK with me, but I have not found such an adapter. Surprisingly, you can get adapters to mount many other lenses on Canon cameras - including Nikon, Pentax and Leica SLR. There is very little reason to do this in most cases but people have the made the adapters anyway. Unfortunately they don't have an adapter to mount a Canon EF-S lens on a EOS body.

There are two reasons for this. The first is that an EF-S lens will vignettte on a full frame sensor. The second is that the rear part of the lens might hit the mirror. The EF-S lenses assume a smaller mirror, and there could be a physical collision. A crazy approach is to modify the 60mm EF-S lens. There are people who do this, as a sort of camera hacking - here is a thread thos shows somebody doing it. Whether this works with the 60mm is unclear, and trying it could well damage both the lens and the camera.

Using it with a different lens than the Canon 60mm EF-S is likely to mess things up. It probably will work to some degree with a different macro lenses but image quality is likely to suffer. Presumably some enterprising wetpixelers will do some experiments.

One thing to keep in mind is that a "60mm" lens from Canon or Nikon does not necessarily have a true 60mm focal length - they round the number up or down for marketing purposes. A "60mm" lens might be anywhere from 57mm to 63mm in terms of the actual focal length. This does not matter for most purposes but even small differences may cause problems with using a similar Nikon macro lens that has a different focal length and different field of view because the sensor size is also likely be slightly different. Vignetting is one risk, but that is not the end of the world. Inon may well have adapted the design to match the 60mm EF-S lens quite closely, and if so then you might see more abberations. The only way to find out will be to try it.

The quality of the Inon lens is not outstanding to begin with - although to be fair, most wide angle lenses have poor corner sharpness when used in a dome port. The dome itself is a kind of a relay lens too. Anytime we take pictures underwater we are compromising the quality compared to topside. When you start doing things like adding a teleconverter to a wide angle fisheye in a dome port (one alternative to the Inon) you're doing a lot of violence to the optical train, and you can't expect perfect quality there either, especially at the edge of the frame.

Depth of field is always an issue with macro, but when you have a narrow angle of view it doesn't come up so much. With this lens DOF will be an issue, and most of the photos seem to be taken at f/16 to f/22. At those apertures the main thing limiting the quality will be diffraction. Your fancy N megapixel sensor will actually be resolving more like a 1.5 megapixel sensor at f/22, 3 megapixels at f/16 and 6 megapixels at f/11. That is just the physics of light, and it is equally true for the the Inon, or any other lens. When we stop way to down to get maximum depth of field it hurts the resolution. That's usually the right thing to do if you need the whole subject sharp.

Anyway, I have just ordered the Inon lens, to pair with Canon 7D in Nauticam housing. Which means I need to get a 7D just for using this lens, since I normally use 1Ds Mark III and 1D Mark III. Reef is putting it together for me, and they say they have a port adapter. If this works, it should be a great set up. I'll post about it once I get it, but I am told that won't be until some point in february,

#35 serge

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 11:07 PM

hi nathanm,

you say Reef has an adapter to use the INON port with Nauticam? Because i asked nauticam and could not get an answer.
Because i am getting the INON UFL MR130 for my INON Housing ... but i also want to get a 7D ... and i am worried about not being able anymore to use the INON Fisheye and all my MRS Ports properly?

Are you sure about that Port Adaptor?

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#36 Drew

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 12:05 AM

I doubt that it will work if you use an extention tube to mate the 60mm lens onto a full-frame Canon camera. The relay lens puts the aerial image in a particular location and with a 12mm extension tube the focusing of the 60mm lens will be shifted.

I guess we can bug Ryan to try it on 60mm with extension tube for FF so some of us don't have to go out and buy a new rig just to fit this lens. The aerial or virtual image if it is within the focus range of the 60 with extension tube (on a FF it's about 2.5ft max focus distance) may work.

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#37 cho

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 05:09 AM

Great stuff, Cho. I think we should merge this with the other thread on the INON lens - so that all the info is in one place for future reference.

I imagine many people will be buying and trying this lens during 2010, so it would be good to have one authoritative thread - all the info in one place.

Alex

p.s. I will try and merge it - but I am not very good with the merge controls.



Hi , Alex,
Absolutely I gree it,.Next week I have plan to go to anilao again, and will try to compare more by same meta data, stuffs.

#38 nathanm

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:48 AM

hi nathanm,

you say Reef has an adapter to use the INON port with Nauticam? Because i asked nauticam and could not get an answer.
Because i am getting the INON UFL MR130 for my INON Housing ... but i also want to get a 7D ... and i am worried about not being able anymore to use the INON Fisheye and all my MRS Ports properly?

Are you sure about that Port Adaptor?

Greets, Serge

I have an order in with Reef that is based on the existence of this port. Ryans says they will have it.

#39 nathanm

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:53 AM

I guess we can bug Ryan to try it on 60mm with extension tube for FF so some of us don't have to go out and buy a new rig just to fit this lens. The aerial or virtual image if it is within the focus range of the 60 with extension tube (on a FF it's about 2.5ft max focus distance) may work.

I think it is quite likely that something like this can work. It will take some experimentation to find the right combination of lens and distance from the lens. The issue will be how big can you make the aerial image, and can you focus on it. I would bet that means making a custom port.

It is certainly worth trying (first in air) to see. I have Canon and Nikon FF cameras and lense so I will certainly give it a shot myself when the lens comes.

#40 Tom_Kline

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 09:15 AM

This sort of relay lens creates an "aerial image" which is then captured on the sensor using a conventional lens on the camera body. The aerial image appears to the lens on the camera body like it was an object within the focus distance.



If this is so it should be possible to do other adaptations. The main issue might be that the Inon lens needs to be closer to the host lens than what is physically possible due to the space used up by the port and adapter. One should not give up just based on what is current; also attempt adapting with discontinued lenses should the new ones not be feasible. There is a host of older lenses, Nikkors as well as after-market models.

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