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Panasonic introduces world's first 3xCMOS sensor 1080/50/60p camcorders, HDC-HS700/TM700


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#21 HDVdiver

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 02:42 AM

I understand your explanation that actually is the same as in many sites and we can see examples of TM700 shots on vimeo but keep in mind that all these shots are above the water.
What I understand form many discussions on italian uw video forums, it's like the color balance settings of the camere are somehow screwed up while underwater.

Would be nice to see some uw shot without correction.

Bye


If this is so widely discussed, I'd be interested to see a link and/or photographic example.

I'm more inclined to think that it's not the camera that's responsible for what you are describing...

The laws of physics are the same underwater or on land...color temperature is color temperature. The same with a camera's color gamut...if it's OK on land, it'll be OK underwater.

However, dealing with the spectral properties of the water (ie its color cast) is a totally different thing (to WB) and can vary greatly... temporally and spatially.

Correcting for this is something different to acquiring the correct ambient Kelvin setting. It's not something that the camera can do on it's own. It requires appropriate in-situ filtration and/ or color grading in post (note...color grading, not correcting white balance)...or fill lighting.

Sorry if I sound sceptical...30 years as a career research scientist has made me wary of unsubstantiated generalizations...

Edited by HDVdiver, 12 May 2010 - 02:50 AM.


#22 Long John Silver

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:15 AM

If this is so widely discussed, I'd be interested to see a link and/or photographic example.

Sorry if I sound sceptical...30 years as a career research scientist has made me wary of unsubstantiated generalizations...


I could be a Panasonic engineer who post incognito but anyway my/your curricula doesn't give a different weight to our post. This is the beautiful of internet.

Could you give me a link with an underwater shot of the TM700 proving the opposite?

Anyway:

http://www.videosubi...p?TOPIC_ID=1555

The thread starts with the TM300 (which has the same problem) and it ends speaking of TM700.
A user posted on vimeo a shot made with the TM700 showing the effect. Then, after a couple of weeks he removed the video because was shoot for his private use.
The other two user experiencing the problem are two of most known italian uw video makers.
One of them is Daniele Iop:

http://www.videosubi...LV/thepier.html

They did not post the video because they are editing it for a video competition.

Google translator will help you.

Bye

#23 HDVdiver

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 03:34 AM

I could be a Panasonic engineer who post incognito but anyway my/your curricula doesn't give a different weight to our post.

Bye



...of course not.

It just makes me wary of unsubstantiated generalizations!


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#24 Nick Hope

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Posted 20 May 2010 - 07:47 PM

If any of them is a "rip off" it's the Canon 7D...what a total disappointment! I've never had a new camera for so little time before getting rid of it. Even tried two others in case I somehow got a dud. All were just as bad in terms of video image resolution...

I was surprised by these commments, and in my limited research, this is pretty much the first bad commentary on the 7D that I've read. Have others found the same drawbacks as HDVdiver has? I'd be interested in links to any other negative reviews on this camera as I am seriously considering buying one.

#25 HDVdiver

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 03:17 AM

I was surprised by these commments, and in my limited research, this is pretty much the first bad commentary on the 7D that I've read. Have others found the same drawbacks as HDVdiver has? I'd be interested in links to any other negative reviews on this camera as I am seriously considering buying one.


I would not normally have referred to the term "rip-off"...it was in response to someone else's unwarranted reference to the Pana TM700 in that manner.

Perhaps I had too high hopes for the 7D based on my overall satisfaction with the Canon 5D2. Obviously, a lot of people are happy with it...and if you're not into A vs B "pixel peeping" it may well still be a good camera for a given person's requirements. As a stills camera, it is very good...it was only the video resolution that didn't quite make it for me.

At least I base my views/opinions on carefull real world evaluation. It would be a dull world indeed if everyone else agreed with me...:D


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#26 Ferg42

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:27 AM

Just throwing in what I've heard on the 7D/5D mark II video quality debate (slightly off the original topic!). I have both. I have also heard talk on several forums that the resolution of the 7D video is not as good as the 5D. I think I saw this quantified somewhere, but can't remember where. Also, several people have said they noticed the difference when filming with same subject with the two cameras, so I think it is a real phenomenon. Having said all this, in the real world, I'm very happy with the results from both cameras underwater, and I love the fact I can use the Tokina 10-17mm on the 7D.

Incindentally, the Panasonic looks like a great little cam. Really looking forward to seeing some UW samples from it!
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#27 SimonSpear

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:06 AM

Side by side I can definitely see differences in the video produced by the 5DMkII and the 7D, but I wouldn't say that one was worse than the other - just different with different benefits and drawbacks. Some prefer the 7D, some prefer the 5D so nothing new there! :D

Cheers, Simon

Edited by SimonSpear, 21 May 2010 - 06:08 AM.


#28 HDVdiver

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 04:40 PM

Just throwing in what I've heard on the 7D/5D mark II video quality debate (slightly off the original topic!). I have both. I have also heard talk on several forums that the resolution of the 7D video is not as good as the 5D. I think I saw this quantified somewhere, but can't remember where. Also, several people have said they noticed the difference when filming with same subject with the two cameras, so I think it is a real phenomenon. Having said all this, in the real world, I'm very happy with the results from both cameras underwater, and I love the fact I can use the Tokina 10-17mm on the 7D.

Incindentally, the Panasonic looks like a great little cam. Really looking forward to seeing some UW samples from it!



There's a lot of discussion about this out there...but not much in the way of a careful side by side comparison, using the same lenses, settings, etc.

One interesting thread is:

http://forums.dprevi...essage=33898944

"7D Video Disappointing - First impressions"


"I got my 7D yesterday and have of course been playing with it all day.

First off its a super cool camera and for still images it is very impressive compared to my 500D. The auto focus works very good as far as I can see.

My first impression of the video is big disappointment. My first feeling is that the quality is so low that I can barely use it for hd videos. Im working with nature movies in 1080p. It's great to be able to switch lenses and use filters etc. I don't mind the hassles with always using a tripod and focusing manually. However I do expect the image quality to be really good, and this is where I'm having issues. "

Edited by HDVdiver, 21 May 2010 - 04:45 PM.


#29 DeanB

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:48 PM

Side by side I can definitely see differences in the video produced by the 5DMkII and the 7D, but I wouldn't say that one was worse than the other - just different with different benefits and drawbacks. Some prefer the 7D, some prefer the 5D so nothing new there! :D

Cheers, Simon


Which one do you have mate :D

IMHO It's all down to the shooter not the equipment if you can't shoot video then you just can't shoot video ...

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#30 SimonSpear

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:14 PM

My first impression of the video is big disappointment. My first feeling is that the quality is so low that I can barely use it for hd videos. Im working with nature movies in 1080p. It's great to be able to switch lenses and use filters etc. I don't mind the hassles with always using a tripod and focusing manually. However I do expect the image quality to be really good, and this is where I'm having issues. "


There must have been something wrong with his 7D, or he just didn't know how to use it. Honestly there is no other option because for all the faults of the HDSLR's in general (there are plenty) and the 7D in particular (plenty there also) to say that the quality is so low that you can't use it for HD video is quite frankly stupid/crazy/just idiotic. Well at least it made me giggle :D

Cheers, Simon

#31 ronscuba

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:34 PM

He must of had a bad 7d because he said he likes the video on his 5d but not the 7d and returned the 7d.

#32 Ferg42

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 01:28 PM

Off topic I know, but continuing the 5D Mark II/7D debate- here's a side by side comparison on vimeo:

7D 5D mark II side by side

To my eye the 5D looks slightly sharper (look at the numbers on the balls).- that is assuming he focussed correctly . But as I said before, in the underwater footage I have shot on the 7D I really have no complaints, and it's a world better than the 3 chip standard def material I shot just a few years ago.

Edited by Ferg42, 24 May 2010 - 01:32 PM.

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#33 ronscuba

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 01:45 PM

In that comparison video, the cameras are using 2 different lenses.

The 5d has a prime 50mm 1.8 with aperture set to f4. The 7d has a 24-105mm f4 with aperture at f4.

#34 jonny shaw

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 02:09 PM

Shooting with the 24-105mm f4 at f4 isn't going to be ideal, the lens will definitely not be at it's sharpest anyway, then comparing it against a 50 mm prime at an more appropriate aperture.... not a particularly good test

You only want to vary the cam not the lens / aperture / blah / blah

I have shot 7D and 5D and yes they look slightly different (and I mean really slightly) but as Simon says I don't think that one is better or worse than the other.

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#35 DeanB

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 10:07 PM

Shooting with the 24-105mm f4 at f4 isn't going to be ideal, the lens will definitely not be at it's sharpest anyway, then comparing it against a 50 mm prime at an more appropriate aperture.... not a particularly good test

You only want to vary the cam not the lens / aperture / blah / blah

I have shot 7D and 5D and yes they look slightly different (and I mean really slightly) but as Simon says I don't think that one is better or worse than the other.


I'm sure both camera's will shoot pretty good video (for a stills camera). Their still 1st generation VidSLR's I bet the new ones will be out real soon with much better performance. Then its get your wallets (purses for wags :) ) out again.

At the moment I'm quite happy to hire or be supplied by the production company for the shoot :)

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#36 Long John Silver

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 03:04 AM

Guys this thread was dead and now is dead and :)

Coming back to the title, is there a hope to see some uw clips from this camcorder?

#37 SimonSpear

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 10:57 AM

It's not dead till its dead!! You'd be amazed how long we can talk crap for....

#38 DeanB

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:35 AM

It's not dead till its dead!! You'd be amazed how long we can talk crap for....


I'll vouch for Simons comment he can talk some real crap :) :)

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#39 jonny shaw

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 01:43 PM

I can't even remember what it was about.... oh yeah some little panny cam that looks pretty cool.

Gotta love a ramble!

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#40 edmond320

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 10:46 PM

From Sealux housing for Panasonic HDC-HS700/TM700
Posted ImagePosted Image