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VDSLR Workflow Question


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#1 Steve Williams

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:22 PM

Okay, so I'm a little slow. I'm missing a piece of the workflow. Let's say you're out on a boat for 10 days. When shooting stills I download the CF card after a day of diving. I use Lightroom to bring the file into my laptop and backup the images to my portable hard drive at the same time. Then I would review them for things to improve the next day and reformat the card when I am sure I have 2 copies saved.

What is the equivalent when using the 7D or 5DMkII for video files. LR doesn't see them, so that's out. If I've followed the other conversations here it's recommended to keep the files seperate anyway. I just tried using the Canon software to play back videos on my PC laptop and it's not smooth. I just want to view the file for focus, exposure etc. I'm not trying to do any big time editing on the boat. Do you guys have a recommendation for workflow? Premiere Pro or FCP seems like overkill. Do you use esata drives to bring the treasure home?

Really appreciate any advise,
Steve

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#2 Drew

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 09:35 PM

You'll find some ingestion information here:

http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=35185

Canon's own MCU will download the .mov files with .thm into the computer. However if your laptop can't play the files smoothly, try VLC. If that still doesn't work then you need to upgrade your laptop.
I use Nextodi Extreme to download the CF card as backup, then mirror it with another drive as 2nd backup.

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#3 AndreSmith

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:25 PM

Steve, for simply playing back the .mov files on my PC I use KMPlayer ( free dowload at http://kmplayer.en.softonic.com/) . It plays back smoother than VLC or Quicktime on my PC laptop

#4 Steve Williams

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 10:39 PM

Thanks Drew
Yes I've been following that thread and I'm very proud to say that after six months of nightly study and a Mary Lynn Final Cut Pro class I actually understood more than half of it. Well OK, almost half of it. Thanks for the heads up on VLC. I found a download site here

The Nextodi Extreme looks interesting. A device like that makes sense. Have to admit though that you got me with MCU. Where I work that's a Mission Control Unit. Google didn't help either. Guessing you didn't mean Modern Churchpeople's Union or Moisture Cure Urethane.
:)
Seriously, what is it with video people and acronyms? (Not you, those other guys :P ) There are going to be a whole lot more folks like me (who are a couple of clowns short of a circus) trying to figure out how to use their new cameras. If the industry as a whole can't find a way to simply explain it and software to do it they will be missing out on sales, big time. It really fascinating to me that five of the smartest folks I know in media, video, and web content have to have a discussion about how to get the video out of a camera and into a computer. Mind boggling really.

Sorry, where were we? Oh yeah, so do you save the original files as captured on the card and then transcode at home or on the boat or both?

Thanks,
Steve

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#5 scorpio_fish

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:07 AM

I use Photo Mechanic to transfer the card and it handles both still and video files.
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#6 TheRealDrew

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 01:46 AM

I have been using a Colorspace 0 and/or a Colorspace UDMA to copy the card. Then at that point copy the newest folder(s) to hard drive(s) to start working from there.

I will do some transcoding when travelling (set up bulk conversions for when I am away from the computer to Pro Res) if I feel like editing on the road, but also have just dropped the clips into a timeline in Final Cut to look through the clips quickly.

#7 jeremypayne

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 05:32 AM

... LR doesn't see them, so that's out ...

One thing to note ... there is a Lightroom plugin from Jeffrey Friedl ... here ... http://regex.info/bl...es/video-assets ....

... that helps you manage video assets with your Lightroom library ... doesn't let you do much more than import them, but I find that useful ... let's you keep track of them at least.

He's got lots of great little Lightroom plugins.
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#8 Drew

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 08:53 AM

The Nextodi Extreme looks interesting. A device like that makes sense. Have to admit though that you got me with MCU. Where I work that's a Mission Control Unit. Google didn't help either. Guessing you didn't mean Modern Churchpeople's Union or Moisture Cure Urethane.

MCU is part of Canon's Image Browser package. It's Memory Card Utility.

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#9 Steve Williams

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 09:49 AM

Thanks guys, good info, I appreciate it.

Drew thanks, after a little digging I see that Canon has a new version of the Zoombrowser software available. release date 4-13-2010, but it's on the website. (back to the future) That may help the playback on my PC, seems to have improved video support. I'll have to try it out.

Mr Wohl, thats cool, fucky website though, I can't find where it says it supports Movie files. I'm not sure of the mechanics of how I'd use it to back up to multiple drives . I'm assuming that one of the versions would support a PC?

Guys, Photo Mechanic definitely deserves some study and the Lightroom plugin is very cool Jeremy, maybe all I need to make sense of the work flow. Wonder if LR3 will support video files when it's finally released?

Cheers,
Steve

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#10 TheRealDrew

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:24 AM

Thanks guys, good info, I appreciate it.

Drew thanks, after a little digging I see that Canon has a new version of the Zoombrowser software available. release date 4-13-2010, but it's on the website. (back to the future) That may help the playback on my PC, seems to have improved video support. I'll have to try it out.

Mr Wohl, thats cool, fucky website though, I can't find where it says it supports Movie files. I'm not sure of the mechanics of how I'd use it to back up to multiple drives . I'm assuming that one of the versions would support a PC?

Guys, Photo Mechanic definitely deserves some study and the Lightroom plugin is very cool Jeremy, maybe all I need to make sense of the work flow. Wonder if LR3 will support video files when it's finally released?

Cheers,
Steve



The website got switched up a bit, but supported Raw Formats are here and User Manual is here Note that it is basically copying things and I think it relates more to previewing than anything (as opposed to not copying). I have used the units with the Canon 5D Mark II files and all images can be read and viewed, the movies get copied but are not viewable on the unit. If you want to send me your 7D, I would be happy to test it out to see if everything copies okay. :)

As to the format, it will work with Mac and PCs - put a hard drive in, format the hard drive via the Colorspace Menu and you are ready to go. The UDMA is extremely quick in copying and has nice features like verfication, data recovery etc. I am sure other units do the same thing, but these were recommended to me around here awhile ago and I have been happy with them. I buy the empty ones and put my own drives in. Quick and easy. Still getting used to the UDMA version (different general controls), but it is very very fast to download off of cards, though it only can be attached to a computer via USB, but even then it is not too bad. Just ran a quick test and copied 6.5 gigs from the unit to my tower, took under 4 minutes. One thing I need to play with some more is just using it to copy files by itself, but you can do that. In other words, you can move files from the unit back out to a compact flash or SD card.

As to LR3, I would hope the support video files to some degree (even just to organize things), but who knows.. On the Mac side of things, Aperture and iPhoto both support movies a bit, though to view them they open in other windows. Just in case you ever go to the Mac :)

Edited by TheRealDrew, 21 March 2010 - 10:30 AM.


#11 jeremypayne

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:17 AM

Wonder if LR3 will support video files when it's finally released?


Good chance it will ... there was an accidental page posted on dpreview this morning announcing an updated Beta that supported new cameras, video file management and turned on the disabled NR slider ...

It was pulled quickly ... but there's clearly something there ...

There's a link to a screenshot of the accidental announcement on this thread on the Adobe LR forum ... http://forums.adobe....601039?tstart=0
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#12 Steve Williams

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:49 AM

Thanks for the heads up Jeremy,
I think the guy who commented "stay tuned" got it right. I bet the offices are humming at Adobe today.

Cheers,
Steve

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#13 TheRealDrew

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:56 AM

I bet the offices are humming at Adobe today.



You would think with all the computers and databases they have they would be able to look up the words.

(Slinks off to the corner to hide after that line)

#14 Drew

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 07:03 AM

You have to remember while the LR and Apertures and whatever else will download the files, you still have to edit them. I know Apple use to transcode to AIC for AVCHD for iMovie. Now if you are happy with iMovie (I'm assuming you are on a mac as well since you took a FCS course), then you should be good to go, except I'm not even sure iMovie handles H.264 in the timeline without transcodes if it can't handle AVCHD. However, if you want to get more advanced then you will have to pay. On a Mac below $300, Final Cut seems to have the best workflow for H.264 clips but obviously there's varying opinions on which is best. On Windoze, for the cheap NLE, Edius Canopus then Vegas 9.
If online output is your final goal, then the basic FCE or Edius will do fine.

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#15 Steve Williams

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 08:21 AM

You have to remember while the LR and Apertures and whatever else will download the files, you still have to edit them. I know Apple use to transcode to AIC for AVCHD for iMovie. Now if you are happy with iMovie (I'm assuming you are on a mac as well since you took a FCS course), then you should be good to go, except I'm not even sure iMovie handles H.264 in the timeline without transcodes if it can't handle AVCHD. However, if you want to get more advanced then you will have to pay. On a Mac below $300, Final Cut seems to have the best workflow for H.264 clips but obviously there's varying opinions on which is best. On Windoze, for the cheap NLE, Edius Canopus then Vegas 9.
If online output is your final goal, then the basic FCE or Edius will do fine.


Thanks Drew, I took the FCS class from Mary Lynn to try and get a sense of the options. It was a huge help. It also helped me get a broad (shallow) understanding of the video process. I'm going to stay with my PC for now and I've got a copy of Premiere Pro on the way. (Don't tell Mary Lynn :) ) My goal is to have a video up on the screen for the San Diego Film festival in 2011. (and be able to put together shorts to show the Fin Foundation kids) I have the prelim script and shot list all put together. Now I just need to go diving and see what I really get. And oh yeah, figure out a work flow I can trust. It's the mechanics on the boat I'm not clear on. I'll get there.

Appreciate the help,
Steve

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#16 Mary Lynn

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 11:42 AM

I saw that!

Steve, you are a great student of this wild world of digital formats and editing! Persevere!

As for which program you choose, the most important thing is to get out there and shoot and make cool videos and multimedia productions with what you shoot.

And my experience is that the more I learn about all the different systems and approaches, the more fun I have and the better I understand some of this wild digital world.

The first few times I read about formats and workflows new to me, it's definitely *reaching* but little by little it comes more into focus... :)

Looking forward to seeing more of your work in the future!!

- Mary Lynn

#17 Steve Williams

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:12 PM

I saw that!


Thanks Mary Lynn.

The as yet unreleased LR 3 Beta2 is up on the video learning site. Whoops! http://tv.adobe.com/watch/creative-suite-p...eta-2-whats-new
Edit. They removed it too. But it was fun to watch.

Good news is it supports the video files for downloading and sorting, etc. The demo showed that if you double click on the thumbnail in LR it opens the video up in the video viewer of your choice. They demo'd opening it up in Premeire Pro.


Steve

Edited by Steve Williams, 22 March 2010 - 07:36 PM.

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#18 Steve Douglas

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 03:47 PM

Steve,
If there is any way you can stall getting Premier Pro do so. The new CS 5 version is only a few months away from release.
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#19 jeremypayne

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 03:56 PM

The new CS 5 version is only a few months away from release.

It could come out next month ... or in December ... you really have no idea when it will come out ...
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#20 gbrandon

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 05:07 PM

It could come out next month ... or in December ... you really have no idea when it will come out ...



I have no idea when CS5 will come out, but I can tell you that its (or was) almost a given that LR3 will (or was to) become final at Photoshop world in florida this weekend. I spoke with someone at adobe that told me that (but not in those exact words, NDA stuff of course). He's been with the company since its inception..so I trust his info.

Now that the latest LR3 beta just came out, that may not happen. Im curious if the adobe guys decided to add movie support after they saw Aperture 3 or they already had plans for it, or if they were just sitting on the fence to see if they should include it or not.

Edited by gbrandon, 22 March 2010 - 05:08 PM.