37 replies to this topic

[photovan]

Hey, guys. This was NOT a "production." It is essentially raw footage from the RED put together in a short video to share with their fans.

On a side note, they are watching this thread, and I'm worried that they will never again give us a sneak-preview glimpse of what they are coming back with on these stock trips.

What a great privilege for us, a window into the top end of town!

and that's the danger of sharing what are essentially rushes I guess. Knowing the context of what was posted makes a difference... note for next time ...
Given that it's raw footage ...from RAW files ... it would be interesting to know how much post work is needed to get RED clips ready for initial viewing like this.

...and how Team Hall's workflow and post procedures etc have changed from the pre-RED days...

[TheRealDrew]

Given that it's raw footage ...from RAW files ... it would be interesting to know how much post work is needed to get RED clips ready for initial viewing like this.

If you would like to send me a RED Camera and housing, I will be happy to figure out the work flow on my Mac. I will even pay for my own dive trip myself

Personally I thought the clarity of the shots was amazing, despite being compressed for the web.

[DeanB]

Hey, guys. This was NOT a "production." It is essentially raw footage from the RED put together in a short video to share with their fans.

On a side note, they are watching this thread, and I'm worried that they will never again give us a sneak-preview glimpse of what they are coming back with on these stock trips.

Everyone is, of course, free to express their opinions; that is what makes this forum such a great place. But it's easy to criticize without showing us what you're putting together from a single trip. Remember that it's much harder to shoot and light a large sensor camera. This footage probably looks excellent in full HD and beyond, while the footage from a HDV camera struggles to look even decent at full resolution.

I really don't think any criticism will put off seasoned filmmakers such as the Halls, anyone who puts footage/stills etc online will get, whether intended for critique or not, peoples opinions. I'm sure Howard and Michelle are used to opinions and they will have opinions of others work. It wasn't a public slagging off just opinions.

This industry requires a thick skin for all types of things and peoples opinions should never be suppressed whether its a holiday shooters homemade production or an apex filmmakers masterpiece.

Dive safe

Dean(never showing a film from his 'lower class' camera in public again )B

[waynedocj]

Talk about critics!!!!! Since when did everyone become picky little experts?? I thought it was beautiful. My interpretation was that it was meant for us to sit back & watch what happens on the reef. Let the sealife tell the story in all its wonderful colors and interactions.

[DeanB]

Talk about critics!!!!! Since when did everyone become picky little experts??

Just opinions nothing wrong with that

I thought it was beautiful. My interpretation was that it was meant for us to sit back & watch what happens on the reef. Let the sealife tell the story in all its wonderful colors and interactions.

Like your opinion, your critique, your expertise ???

Jeez anyone would think it was a public hanging the way some of you react to this. ITS A FORUM!!!! Its nice to know that even the apex shooters have wobbly days as well. Did anyone really expect Mr Hall or anyone to be able to stay perfectly still while finning in a swell ...

Dive safe

DeanB

Edited by DeanB, 03 April 2010 - 10:25 AM.

[jonny shaw]

Just opinions nothing wrong with that



Like your opinion, your critique, your expertise ???

Jeez anyone would think it was a public hanging the way some of you react to this. ITS A FORUM!!!! Its nice to know that even the apex shooters have wobbly days as well. Did anyone really expect Mr Hall or anyone to be able to stay perfectly still while finning in a swell ...

Dive safe

DeanB

Exactly right, don't post or put work online unless you are happy for people to critique it.

I'm sure the Halls can deal with the comments here,

[HDVdiver]

I'll be this is all going into stock.

I hope they square it with Vimeo's TOS first.

My understanding of the "fine print" is anything that goes on Vimeo basically transfers the copyright to Vimeo.

Hence a lot of people who'd like to show their best work on Vimeo are reluctant to do so (or so I read on the Canon 5D.com forum).

[Nick Hope]

I hope they square it with Vimeo's TOS first.

My understanding of the "fine print" is anything that goes on Vimeo basically transfers the copyright to Vimeo.

Hence a lot of people who'd like to show their best work on Vimeo are reluctant to do so (or so I read on the Canon 5D.com forum).

Not true any more. Years ago they did have a clause that took over your copyright. Then until about a year ago they still had a clause that allowed them to do anything they liked with your video (effectively sharing your copyright). But now the terms are more reasonable (see their terms of service):

Videos that you upload or otherwise transmit to VIMEO through the Services shall at all times remain your sole and exclusive property. As such, you shall be solely responsible for your videos and the consequences of their posting or publication on or via the Services. Video uploads, like any Submissions (as defined below), are subject to VIMEO's COMMUNITY STANDARDS AND CONDUCT policy below.

By submitting your video(s), you hereby grant VIMEO and its affiliates, successors and assigns a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sub-licensable (through multiple tiers) and transferable license (with a right to create derivative works to the extent necessary to make video content compatible with any Vimeo Services), revocable upon removing the video from Vimeo, to use, copy, transmit or otherwise distribute, perform, modify, incorporate into other works, publicly perform and display your videos or any portion thereof, in or through any medium, whether now known or hereafter created. VIMEO shall also be entitled to use clips of any video that has not been designated "private" for the purpose of promoting the Vimeo Site or Services, without compensation to the submitter; however, Vimeo will not use your videos for any other commercial purposes without obtaining your prior approval.

You also grant each user (or specified users, if a video is designated "private") of the Vimeo Site or Services a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable, personal and non-commercial license to access and view your video through the Vimeo Site or any other access point authorized by you and/or VIMEO. This right to access and view your video shall include, solely to the extent necessary, the right to copy, transmit or otherwise distribute, perform, publicly perform, create derivative works of, and display your video. Unless designated "private," all video uploads will be deemed public information. No video upload shall be subject to any obligation of confidence on the part of VIMEO, and VIMEO shall not be liable for any use or disclosure of any video.

[jonny shaw]

Thanks for that Nick I was about to pull a load of videos off Vimeo.

[SimonSpear]

On a side note, they are watching this thread, and I'm worried that they will never again give us a sneak-preview glimpse of what they are coming back with on these stock trips.

Hi Eric

I'm not sure I really understand the logic here as anyone who puts out content into the public domain is liable for criticism. All of us here on Wetpixel have at some point had our work scrutinised and criticised. Although sometimes it can be hurtful to have your pride and joy ripped to shreds (no matter how constructive), you can nearly always learn from what has been said. Michelle and Howard Hall are legends in underwater imaging. They have nothing to prove, but even they can be helped by this type of discussion and I can't for one second believe that they would not welcome a healthy debate over their work.


Cheers, Simon

Edited by SimonSpear, 04 April 2010 - 08:36 AM.

[willkiml]

I have no personal experience with RED but I understand that the capacity to white-balance in post is superior to other systems. Does anyone know if that capacity was used on this excellent footage or was this a test piece without post-production color adjustment?

[Nick Hope]

Howard, if you're reading, I would love to find out what you're using for lighting with your RED setup, and how you're handling white balance. Cheers

[jonny shaw]

I've used RED on land a fair bit and yes you do have a massive amount of latitude for white balance in post, but it is still really important to exposure red, green and blue equally to be able to give you this latitude.

I actually love that first shot and given a little post work you could get rid of the wobble and clean up the colours to make it look absolutely stunning. I just reckon the Halls chucked a few clips together, did basic correction over there and uploaded to vimeo. That is the good thing about RED if you shoot in 4K you have stacks of latitude to do whatever you want. The focus work is pretty awesome too actually, critical focus is not easy on that camera.

If the Halls are listening I would love to know what glass they were using.

[echeng]

Hello, all. Howard just sent me a general response:

Howard responds to remarks concerning “Maldives in RED.”

I want to thank everyone who took the time to comment on Maldives in RED. I apologize for not responding sooner, but I don’t normally respond on forums. In fact this is the first time I have done so. Forgive me for not making a habit of it.

I very much appreciate the many positive comments I received on the film. I have also received some criticisms. Certainly I enjoy these less than praise. But critiques are totally appropriate in this kind of venue. Those who have made critical comments have done so in good taste and without malice. I suffer far worse when major film some critics publish reviews of my IMAX features.

Some have said that “Maldives in RED” does not represent my best work. I should certainly hope not. Those of you who have seen one of my television films or an IMAX feature have seen the combined efforts of dozens of talented people. I usually spend six months to a year in research and planning followed by over 100 days of filming with a crew of up to twelve. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are then spent in postproduction. If my IMAX and television films have been successful it is not because I did something magical with a camera underwater. The success of these films has been a result of the combined talents of the people on my team. By comparison, “Maldives in RED” had a budget of zero. So there certainly is a difference. And yes, I feel incredibly lucky to have had access to the large budgets used to make my major underwater film productions.

In the last few years a great deal has changed in the art of making underwater films. Frankly, I am totally overwhelmed by the quality and innovation of underwater videography I see published on sites like Wetpixel today. When stripped of a multi-million dollar budget and the support of a talented crew I feel lucky if my camerawork is considered average.

Someone asked what lenses I used for “Maldives in RED.” I used Nikon mount lenses including the Tokina 10-17mm, the Nikon 10-24mm, and the Nikon 16-85mm. My camera was housed in a Gates “Deep RED” housing. It’s simply the best underwater housing I have ever owned. I used a single Light and Motion Sunray LED light. Normally I use two, but one was damaged in shipping.

I made “Maldives in RED” because I love diving, love shooting, and making underwater films is still fun. So thanks for watching and thanks for your comments, good and bad.

Howard Hall

[Mike L]

Thank you for posting the response Eric.

[shawnh]

Howards post was very refreshing...thank you Howard! Such humility from arguably the greatest in underwater filmmaking....we can all learn from that. Strive for perfection, recognize areas for improvement, and always appreciate the contributions of others!
-shawn

[DeanB]

"I very much appreciate the many positive comments I received on the film. I have also received some criticisms. Certainly I enjoy these less than praise. But critiques are totally appropriate in this kind of venue. Those who have made critical comments have done so in good taste and without malice. I suffer far worse when major film some critics publish reviews of my IMAX features."

There you go, no hard feelings as as there was certainly no malice in the comments.

Its nice to know there are serious fans out there who take criticism of their heroes to heart. Its also nice to know that legends like HH know its only opinions and still take note even from 'lower class' camera shooters who, no matter what the camera and budget, still have an opinion. I've mainly found the top shooters to be very gracious and not take themselves to seriously and know they have a very privileged position. Especially the ones who worked hard to get where there are now and HH seems, as i've never met him, to be one of those.

Dive safe

Dean(bring on the next victim )B

Edited by DeanB, 06 April 2010 - 01:52 PM.

[marv800]

Stunning!