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Giving up on FF for Tokina 10-17???


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#1 Photonunosa

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:26 AM

Hi all,

I have been a canded user of the Canon Eos 5D with an Aquatica housing for the last 3 years. I was looking forward to buying a second housing and upgradind to the 5DMKII. However my previous experience with a FF camera is that when it comes to wide angle zooms the results are not satisfing. I either use my 15mm or when I go for the 17-40 corner softness is just unecceptable.

Now I hear all this great stuff about the tokina 10-17 so I am considering: should I drop the idea of buying the new 5DMKII and go for the 7D instead and use the Tokina for wide angle zoom . I really didnīt want to do this but it looks like even using the Aquatica Meggadome and a diopter doesnīt deliver good enough results. I could use the 5D for my 15mm and the 7D for the Tokina but ofcourse the image quality of stills and HDR is not the same.

Of course the truth is many top shoots like photographers from Nat Geo keep delivering great stuff with FF and 16-35 and 17-40 sometimes at low apertures.

I was really dreaming with the 5DMKII....

Any opinions and same situation?

#2 photovan

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:36 AM

16-35II behind a big dome beyond f8 can work, but it is still hard going.

When I went from film to cropped sensor digital, wide-life became so much easier...
Now back to FF, and those pesky corner problems re-appear!

7d might be your answer...

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#3 Photonunosa

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:24 AM

16-35II behind a big dome beyond f8 can work, but it is still hard going.

When I went from film to cropped sensor digital, wide-life became so much easier...
Now back to FF, and those pesky corner problems re-appear!

7d might be your answer...


Thankīs Darren,

Good to hear your opinion, specially because you are using the same camera and housing I am considering. Are you also using the Aquatica Megadome?

Nuno.

#4 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:36 AM

Now I hear all this great stuff about the tokina 10-17 so I am considering: should I drop the idea of buying the new 5DMKII and go for the 7D instead and use the Tokina for wide angle zoom .


I'd choose the 7D over the 5dMk2 for the same reason. Alex

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#5 davichin

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:01 AM

Does the tokina lose a lot of quality and/or focus with a kenko 1.5x teleconverter? You could buy now the tokina and the teleconverter and try it with your present 5D without losing money (if you like it then you would buy a 5DmkII, if not a 7D and you would have an extra TC).
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#6 Photonunosa

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:04 AM

I'd choose the 7D over the 5dMk2 for the same reason. Alex



Thanks Alex.... I was afraid you would say that. Based on your experience do you think the editorial value of pics taken on a more consumer oriented camera such as the 7D will be an issue? I am a professional Wildlife Photographer living in the Azores so my pics are oriented to big animals in the Blue, this is why I really need a WA zoom solution. I mainly work with magazines but also pics for bilboards and so on - so a high quality camera is expected.

Thankīs Nuno.

#7 Stewart L. Sy

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:22 AM

I had the option of housing my 5dmk2 or my 7D, it was the Tokina 10-17 that made up my mind for me. ;)

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#8 Walt Stearns

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 09:36 AM

Been there, done that with Canon's 5D. Went to 1.5 DX largely for the Tokina 10-17mm, been happier with it.
Don't get to hung up on mega pixels if you can't get the image with optics available for it.

#9 Ferg42

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 11:25 AM

I now have both the 5D mark II and the 7D housed. I already had a 5D Mark II in ikelite, but was considering upgrading housing when the 7D came out, then the Nauticam housing was announced and it was too sweet a combo to ignore. The Tok 10-17 was a major factor in the decision. Yet to use the 7D underwater, but am very happy with results in the dry.
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#10 Photonunosa

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 12:56 PM

I now have both the 5D mark II and the 7D housed. I already had a 5D Mark II in ikelite, but was considering upgrading housing when the 7D came out, then the Nauticam housing was announced and it was too sweet a combo to ignore. The Tok 10-17 was a major factor in the decision. Yet to use the 7D underwater, but am very happy with results in the dry.



So you have the 5DMKII with the 17-40 and now the 7D with the Tokina. It would be great to hear a result comparison on overall image quality, but so far it seams there is no question about it - for Wide Angle zoom the 7D beats the 5D due to the Tokina.

#11 MIKE POWELL

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 01:04 PM

You guys aren't helping me one bit as I try to sell my 5D MK II rig!!!!!
Thanks a lot! ;)

7D w/ 10-17 is pretty sweet.....haven't had mine wet yet, but will be taking both (5D MK II and 7D) to the Bahamas on Friday.

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#12 photovan

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:56 PM

Thankīs Darren,

Good to hear your opinion, specially because you are using the same camera and housing I am considering. Are you also using the Aquatica Megadome?

Nuno.


I have a port adaptor to fit my Seacam superdome and appropriate extensions to the Aquatica housing.

For blue water work I am thinking the 7D's lower DR might actual help rather than hinder. Results from small chips always seem to have a bit more contrast than those from FF... so if exposed well they might have a bit more pop without going to the limits of adjustment in RAW converters... What do you think Alex?

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#13 stever

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:42 PM

from this discussion i'm getting that the only advantage of FF is reduced hi ISO noise. from experience i've been sceptical to the benefits of higher resolution sensors UW

#14 Ferg42

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 12:55 AM

So you have the 5DMKII with the 17-40 and now the 7D with the Tokina. It would be great to hear a result comparison on overall image quality, but so far it seams there is no question about it - for Wide Angle zoom the 7D beats the 5D due to the Tokina.


I have used the 5D II with 17-40, with 8" dome and dioptre and it's OK from f8 upwards, but I much more often use it with the 15mm fisheye, or the 15mm with 1.4x TC. My gut feeling is that the 7D with the 10-17 and a large dome will beat the 5DII and 17-40 for corner sharpness, plus it's wider.
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#15 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 01:21 AM

from this discussion i'm getting that the only advantage of FF is reduced hi ISO noise. from experience i've been sceptical to the benefits of higher resolution sensors UW


I think resolution does count. I shoot a 12MP Nikon FF camera and have dived with people with the 24MP FF Nikon D3X - and there is no doubt that the D3X out resolves my camera underwater, even on more distant subject (not just close focus macro). I am sure that the 5DMk2 would have similar advantages.

Alex

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#16 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 01:29 AM

For blue water work I am thinking the 7D's lower DR might actual help rather than hinder. Results from small chips always seem to have a bit more contrast than those from FF... so if exposed well they might have a bit more pop without going to the limits of adjustment in RAW converters... What do you think Alex?


I'm not convinced I'd want less DR, Darren. I have certainly felt that the DR increases in newer cameras have only brought benefits to underwater images. It is easy to add contrast to images, should you want to.

This week I "outputted" an old file from the Nikon D1. It was a RAW file and I processed it in CS4 RAW Converter. The sharpness is fine and the image still completely useable, but I really noticed how unforgiving the image and RAW file were for DR. There is no doubt there had been progress!

I think most important is to have one camera that you shoot a lot, so you know how it reacts to different lighting conditions and you manage the dynamic range of the scene that you are shooting appropriately (though framing). My D700 is certainly not the best camera out there. But i know it well and that allows me to really nail images technically, because I know what it can and can't handle, which allows you to capture the image you are expecting/want.

Getting pretty ;)

Alex

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#17 Photonunosa

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 02:59 AM

I think resolution does count. I shoot a 12MP Nikon FF camera and have dived with people with the 24MP FF Nikon D3X - and there is no doubt that the D3X out resolves my camera underwater, even on more distant subject (not just close focus macro). I am sure that the 5DMk2 would have similar advantages.

Alex



Yes I agree Alex, but the resolution diference between these 2 cameras isnīt that big 21mp of the 5DMKII against 18mp of the 7D. Of course the pixels on the 7D are on a much smaller CMOS sensor but the main difference will once again fall upon how well she handles higher ISOīs.

Do you use the Tokina on your non FF much?

All the best, Nuno.

#18 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 03:08 AM

Do you use the Tokina on your non FF much?


Never have.

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#19 Photonunosa

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 04:26 AM

So, my mind would be made if I could get my hands on Tokina, but it looks like it is back ordered by the manufacterer and I canīt find it anywhere. Cheked B&h and a few European sites (I am in Portugal) it is out of stock everywhere.

Any ideas?

Edited by Photonunosa, 14 April 2010 - 04:27 AM.


#20 Ferg42

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 04:33 AM

Warehouseexpress in the UK say they have them in stock on their website:

http://www.warehouse...on-fit/p1016920

but it might be best to call them to confirm.
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