Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Some bubbeling and pitting on housing


  • Please log in to reply
33 replies to this topic

#21 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10595 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 11 August 2010 - 09:07 AM

Aqua Soul, your dealer was probably not suppose to show you the email from Japan, which I assume is not written by a native writer of english.

Unfortunately, the process of elimination from a manufacturer's POV is to assume that their product is sound and it's the user. It's not always the best way to deal with things but that's the way it usually is. There will be a bit of ping pong because they have to identify cause from that POV. So you will have to explain to them whether you do use a brass or other kinds of metal attachments. Then when they eliminate that, they'll work on other stuff. You may have to send the housing back to Japan for evaluation in the end. Not much point of getting angry yet because they are trying to eliminate causes.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#22 Deep6

Deep6

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Broomfield, CO

Posted 11 August 2010 - 10:58 AM

Not much point of getting angry yet because they are trying to eliminate causes.

Hmm, don't get mad, just get even. Drew has a point; it sometimes takes persistence to get results in a dispute. Hang in there and reply to their request. Good luck or should I say, make your own luck.
Bob

OBTW: Inon's GF1 housing has

■ Corrosion Suppression Unit

Optional replacement unit when pre-installed unit gets worn. The unit suppresses housing corrosion by oxidizing before the X-2 housing body gets rusted

Carpe carp - Seize the carp


#23 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:58 PM

Hi Drew, what is the reason why the dealer can't forward me what was discussed between him and the manufacturer?
From further mails between me and the dealer, it was mentioned that in fact what I received was an interpretation of the reply from the manufacturer to the dealer.

Okay from the your and Deep6 reply, it would seem I have misinterpreted the e-mail. My understanding was that the manufacturer was advicing me to have a brass holder made. If in fact they were trying to determine if I was attaching brass to the housing, as per your insite, them I am feeling better.

Thanks for the support/insite.

Geo

#24 Paul Kay

Paul Kay

    Giant Squid

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1723 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:North Wales, UK

Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:48 AM

If in fact they were trying to determine if I was attaching brass to the housing, as per your insite, them I am feeling better.

My interpretation of the information that you posted is that the manufacturer thinks that you have attached something made of metal to the housing and that this is the cause of the problem. They clearly consider brass to be the most likely culprit, hence why they ask that anything fitted which is made of brass should be removed. If you haven't fitted anything made of metal to the housing then you should tell them this straight away and see what their response is, because it is clear that they think that you have 'electrical erosion' (which I would consider should be referred to as electolytic corrosion, although this may also be an inaccurate label as others have commented) and that they think that the cause is the use/addition of an incorrect metal somewhere.

FYI odd things can happen, for example I have come across metal flash socket plug caps which caused similar problems, not to the flash socket but to the surrounding area of the housing - this was dealt with by simply fitting plastic plug caps - so make sure that there is nothing on the housing which has not been supplied by the manufacturer, and if there is remove it and check with the manufacturer whether this could be the cause. I am sure that if you have used anything not supplied by the manufacturer then they will want to know so that they can advise against its use in future.
Paul Kay, Canon EOS5D/5DII, SEACAM/S45, 15, 24L, 60/2.8 (+Ext12II) & 100/2.8 Macros - UK/Ireland Seacam Sales underseacameras & marinewildlife & paulkayphotography & welshmarinefish

#25 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 26 February 2011 - 02:54 AM

Itís been a while, but I can now provide some feedback. My aim with this post is not to name and shame and I really wish the report could have been completely positive. However, all in all the exercise was not a positive experience and I do think itís important to share this experience with the market. For most people, an underwater housing is an expensive item to buy and in IMHO one would expect top notch back-up service when required.

Another reasons for my post is, as this is my first aluminium housing and only has had exposure to one manufacturer, namely Seatool, I would greatly appreciate to receive feedback as to if my expectations/standards are too high or if I have good reason to feel negative about the service received.
To aid this I have included a number of post repair photos.

I did informed Fisheye and Seatool that I will be placing a review of my experience on public forums and I will be forwarding them the link, so they will be able to respond if so desired.
In August last year I returned the housing to the dealer. (Joe from Fun-in Taiwan) He in return forwarded the housing to Seatool. After a substantial delay and a couple of e-mails, the feedback came that Seatool would repair the housing and what the cost would be. It was state that the dealer will cover 50% of the cost and the manufacturer the other 50%. (Later I learned that this 50% was covered by Fisheye which is not the manufacturer) It was state that the reason for the delay was because this was the first time Seatool have seen a housing which deteriorated like mine and that they needed time to figure out what to do.

Once I got the mail that they will repair the housing, I immediately replied requesting to know exactly what and how they will be doing this. I simply received a reply that they will be doing a professional job and it will look just like a new housing.

Not my fight to fought, but I also asked the dealer why he had to cover 50% of the repair cost. To me the problems experienced with the housing are directly related to a manufacturing default. The response was that itís not worth the effort for him to fight with Seatool and he will simply pay the 50%.

I also asked that Seatool must take photos of the repaired housing before shipping it back to the dealer, so I could obviously see what the repairs look like and either agree or disagree with what has been done. This never materialized and I was once again reassured that Seatool will be doing a professional job and it will look as good as new.

The period before the housing was received back by the dealer also took a substantial time. I foolishly interpreted this to be due to a thorough and professional job being done. I imagined the housing being stripped completely, removing the existing finishing layer, inspecting and testing the raw aluminium for defects, check that all screws used are of the required specification to be use in underwater housings, that sufficient screw compound has been used with all screws, repairing the defects to the claimed just as new condition, apply new finishing layer and reassemble.
The reason why I think the detail process described above should have been used is because itís clear that something out of the ordinary caused the defects...after all, even the manufacturer reported that this was a first for them. (Itís important to remember that the deterioration didnít happen because the protective layer was compromised, but that it happened below the protective layer and then bubble the finishing layer)

Once the housing was back at the dealer, I was informed that it will be ship back to me the following day. Again I requested to first see photos of the housing. I was told that the housing looks like new and that Seatool have done a great job.

I strongly disagreed with this once I received the housing back and could view it myself. (Looking at the photographic evidence, I think it would be hard to argue that the housing was in a state as good as new.) I e-mailed Joe as soon as possible with the photos why I am not happy. He promised me he forward my mail to Seatool. Some days past without any reply. I follow up, still no luck and so it went on for a while until Joe advice me to e-mail Seatool directly.

After my mail to Seatool, there again was a long wait and finally Mr. Kaz Okada (International Sales Fisheye) replied to my mail. After that a few mails were exchanged between the two of us. One of the things he did during our communication was to explain to me the Fisheye/Seatool relationship. Basically Fisheye introduced Seatool (now known as Recsea) to the international market. So they act as spoke person, the reason why Mr. Kaz Okada replied to my mail, but AND itís a big but, Fisheye has no authority over Seatool/Recsea. This sadly is a recipe for public relationship disaster because the customer can find himself in a horrible passing the bucket scenario in the blink of an eye. (Thinking about it now, it does not make sense to me why Fisheye paid the other 50% of the repair cost if they have no say in Seatool.)

I felt that Mr. Okada tried to help me and I do think, should the housing been manufacturer by Fisheye or if Fisheye had a say in Seatool, the situation would have been resolved by now.
But Fisheye has no say in Seatool and after a while Mr Okada adviced me to e-mail Seatool directly. (I think they were actually ignoring his request as well) That I did, but yet have to receive a single piece of communication from Seatool. So the bottom line is, I am still at square one and the manufacturer and only entity who can resolve the issue is completely ignoring me. I think itís completely unacceptable that a company completely ignore a person who has bought one of their products. Just think about it, if you buy something as simple as a packed of sweets and the sweets are off, you can return it to the manufacturer and be sure they will resolve the issue, how much more should this not be relevant for an expensive item such as a housing?
From the photos attached I think most will agree with me that the level of workmanship related to the repairs fall far short from what one would expect from a professional operation. Man I have seen backyard mechanics take rust out of vehicles much neater than this! Why it took them almost two months to ďrepairĒ the housing is beyond me. The job they did could not have taken more than two days!

Further the housing returned with quite a few scratches to it which it didnít have prior to sending it off.

The cherry on top for me was the finger prints left in the polycarbonate viewing panels. Yes you read correctly, left in, because a person who has handled the housing during the repairs had some chemical on his/her fingers and their finger prints are actually burned into the viewing panels. I mean really, if they had any self respect, Seatool would have waist no time to get back to me to short out this horrible mistake by one of their employees out. (Just had a look on their website and the display in big Ė MADE IN JAPAN Ė its so sad even a company utilize a notion like that and then donít do it justices!!!)

To summarize:

Will I make use of Fun-in in the future?

Yes they will remain on my short list in spite of clearly different understandings of the phrase ďas good as newĒ. In future I would demand photos of the actually product and if that canít be supplied then there would be no deal.

My opinion of Fisheye:

I truly feel that if the housing was manufactured by Fisheye the out come would have been completely different. Mr. Okada came across sincere in his effort to try and resolve this issue, but in the end it was of no use as Fisheye has no authority over Seatool.

I do think itís a sad state and would recommend to other buyers to establish who has what power when you look at buying housing. Mail the manufacturer directly and see if you get any response. If they fail you, then most likely they fail you when you need them! Itís one thing to introduce a company internationally, but if the company introduced has no intention to provide proper back-up service to these new markets, then its senseless to buy from them.

My opinion of Seatool:

Well I guess itís not hard to imagine that I donít have a good word for them. Its mind blowing to me, how a company can simply choose to ignore a customer when they so clearly have been in the wrong. In spite of having bought the Seatool housing for specifics features, I will most certainly not look at that brand for my next housing if the current situation remains the same. Luckily other manufacturers now offer housings with similar features as what made me choose the Seatool housing. So I wonít be losing out on those features and can only think that the level of back-up service will be light years ahead. I would most certainly not consider recommending Seatool as an option to any buyer. I do hope that this writing will deter people in the market for an underwater housing to go with Seatool until such time that they have sorted out their complete lack of communication and improve their level of workmanship to what can be classified as professional.

#26 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:04 AM

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#27 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:09 AM

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#28 Deep6

Deep6

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 881 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Broomfield, CO

Posted 26 February 2011 - 08:28 PM

Wow Aqua_soul,
You are more measured than I would be. Thank you for your report. I will certainly not buy a Resea/Seatool product in the near future. Their mis-handling is so short sighted. Better luck.
Bob

Carpe carp - Seize the carp


#29 Larry Gates

Larry Gates

    Damselfish

  • Industry
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Location:Key Largo

Posted 27 February 2011 - 07:47 AM

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image



Thank you Aqua soul for sharing your experience and story and in such great detail. To me a nightmare. As you posted, housings for dSLRs are expensive and in my view, you ran into something you should not have. My own view is the manufacturer should just replace your housing. That would solve your, their customer's problem, and may help restore their credibility after this matter became public (here).

You asked (more or less) whether this type of experience is the norm among manufacturers of these types of housings. It is my opinion and experience, that how Seatool dealt with you and this matter, is definitely not the norm. Most housing makers I know bend over backwards to keep their customers happy and work with their dealers. If they have any issue, the maker fixes it. There are many examples on this board (WP) where manufacturers have gone above and beyond the call to work with their customers and problems.

I am sorry for your experience, but, thank you for sharing it.

lg

#30 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 28 February 2011 - 12:32 PM

@ Bob, believe you me its taking a lot of self control not to really speak my mind!
Seatool obviously has given me a big finger and thought to hell with him, its just one person. That was major short sight on their part. In this day and age of thousands of public forums, better think twice if you are at all concerned about your brand...and you should be because at the end of the day that means more income.

@ lg, glad to hear that this treatment is not considered the norm. And yes I have seen representatives from some other brands going more than the extra mile.

I would hate for anybody to go public like this if there is not merit to the claim, but I have all the e-mail and photographic proof of what happened.
And as per my promise, I did mail Seatool/Recsea the link to this post...can't say I am surprise not to see any post by Seatool/Recsea.

I am glad that both of you found it helpful, because believe it or not, this has cost me way too much on time alone. Since I haven't heard a word from Seatool/Recsea yet, I have to use a bit more of my time to spread the word, but I sincerely hope this review will stop as many people as possible from investing in their product until such time as that they have sorted out their act.

#31 Oceancouncil

Oceancouncil

    Hermit Crab

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 01 March 2011 - 03:10 AM

Hi

This is all rather distressing, I was seriously considering going down this route asthe compact nature of the Seatool unit lends itself to Freediving. I understand the problem you have experienced and I am sure you are very concerned given the investment that these housing require. But, most situations, or problems in this case, can be resolved if there is a willingness by both parties to engage in open dialogue with a view to fixing the situation.

Since I haven't heard a word from Seatool/Recsea yet
Before I order Nauticam please confirm that you have been unable to open a discusion with Seatool directly? They have not proposed any resolution through their agent?

I believe that things do go wrong and it will be the manufacturers who are approachable and who stand behind their products that are worth supporting with our hard earned cash. I trully hope that they contact you shortly with an acceptable proposal.

#32 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 02 March 2011 - 11:44 PM

Hallo Oceancouncil

Very distressing indeed.

I have mailed Seatool directly a few times and not just to a general e-mail address. It was send directly to Mr.Tadasahi Nakajima at Seatool, which I was told by Fisheye is the correct person to contact. Also as I said I would, I have mailed him the link to this post.

As you can see there has been absolutely no response from them, neither here nore to me directly!!!

Obviously I still hope that they will come to the party and sort things out. Also agree with you that its only worth supporting those manufacturers which stand behind their product. If Seatool fail to do so, as they have done thus far, I do hope this post will be of great value to many future buyers.

#33 jcclink

jcclink

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 733 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:San Diego

Posted 03 March 2011 - 07:53 AM

I realize that complete & proper repair is a major concern, but has the electrolysis issue been fully investigated & solved? If not the housing will continue to degrade over time.
Nexus D300, 10-17mm, 12-24mm, 17-55mm, 60mm, 105mm VR
S&S YS110's & YS27's

#34 Aqua_soul

Aqua_soul

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 315 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Town, South Africa
  • Interests:Surfing, Scuba & Free Diving, Photography above and below water, Architecture, Graphic Design, Art, 3D Modeling & Rendering, Single Malt Whiskeys :)

Posted 04 March 2011 - 06:22 AM

Hi jcclink

Not even the cause was establish or solved in my opinion. (If it was they most certainly didn't share it with me)
The reason why I think it was not resolved is because a small bottle of paint was shipped back with the housing to me.

Great hey!?