28 replies to this topic

[eukuang]

It seems that Nauticam 550D housing is likely plaqued with a manufacturing/design defect with the rocker button based on these two separate accounts.

I think it's a great idea to compile a list of the housing manufacturers and their warranty policy. It would also be even better if we could compile of known defects in current housings as I realise not all housings even for the same model and from the same manufacturing run are equal. This would help new buyers to look out for any specific faults.

I experienced at a similar problem with my Nauticam 7D housing when I got it in April. The bottom piano key jammed in the depressed position and I was unable release it without opening the housing and pressing the key from the inside. This happened on my first dive on a week long dive trip. The bottom piano key activates the 'set' button was quite quite a crucial button and needless to say it marred my week long trip. The response from Nauticam Hong Kong was less than satisfactory. I had nothing to complain about my local dealer who provided prompt updates of the situation but as I understand, I was initially promised a new housing from Nauticam.
However they eventually reneged on their word citing misscommunication. It took them a month and half to repair the piano key which they managed by changing the activation lever. It turn out the initial design had a lever which was not of the correct length and hence jammed easily. I missed out having the housing for another dive trip as a result of this delay.

I am interested to see how Nauticam handles this situation. With at least two possible manufacturing faults on at least two newly released models (550D and 7D) , I hope this does mean that they are rushing out housings before testing them adequately.

[tdpriest]

This is getting a little worrying. On the assumption that new Wetpixel members are new to underwater photography and might be getting into trouble from inexperience, have any of the older, greyer photographers using Nauticam experienced any problems? Commiserations in advance if the floods have happened to the experienced, of course.

Tim

[Steve Williams]

It seems that Nauticam 550D housing is likely plaqued with a manufacturing/design defect with the rocker button based on these two separate accounts.

I think that's a pretty big leap to make. They could have an issue or the guy who tightens screws had a bad night at the pub and screwed up a few (pun intended). I'm interested in finding out more about the 7D piano key issue but I haven't had any problems with mine. There is a reasonably complex linkage that opens up the opportunity for tolerances to stack up and cause a problem but almost every housing has that. I know a couple of folks who had issues with their new Subal for the 7D in getting them initially adjusted so all the buttons worked and I consider Subal one of the best housings made. I don't want to let the housing manufacturers off the hook but some initial issues sort of come with the territory.

If there is a lesson here it's that you want a good shop behind you and you need to plan on giving any new housing and setup a good workout before you go on a trip when you can't recover. Sometimes that's not possible but it's always a good idea. I learned that the hard way many years ago. That's the experience I think Tim was refering to.

Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't. ~Pete Seeger

In other words Derek the old guys have just made more mistakes than the younger guys. So those with wisdom don't make the same mistakes over and over, they make new ones.


Cheers,
Steve

[janm]

Although not being in the "experienced" group I'm also very interrested to find out more about the problems with the Nauticam 7D housing as thats one of the housings for the 7D available locally (the other one being Aquatica) and therefore strongly considered for purchase. Would be great to hear from more people with the Nauticam housing for this camera before making my mind up regarding housing :-)

[Timmoranuk]

PMFJI. I would like to add my 2 cents worh if I may and in order to provide some balance to this thread.

I have a Nauticam NA-7D with I purchased from Alex Tattersall (Alsky on WP) / Underwater Visions. Throughout the process I found Alex and indeed Edward Lai to be extremely responsive and professional. Most impressive is Edward's ability to respond dynamically to camera / lens developments for example the new Sigma 8-16mm. I expect the new zoom gears to be with me in a few days...

My Nauticam performs flawlessly and and is a joy to use.

[Ferg42]

This is getting a little worrying. On the assumption that new Wetpixel members are new to underwater photography and might be getting into trouble from inexperience, have any of the older, greyer photographers using Nauticam experienced any problems? Commiserations in advance if the floods have happened to the experienced, of course.

Tim

As a reasonably experienced, and maybe only very slightly grey ;-) UW photographer, I've had the Nauticam 7D housing for a few months and used it intensively over a period of a couple of weeks and also on a couple of day trips. So far my experiences have been nothing but positive. It's a beautifully designed bit of kit with great ergonomics. Have had no issue with the piano keys, just been playing with all of them, and they show no signs of stickiness.

[RedSeaDiver]

I've got a Nauticam 7D housing and the only problem I've had so far is that the on/off switch on the housing will turn the camera off - but not on. Peter from Scubapix has told me that Nauticam are aware of this problem and they are sending parts to him to fix it. It's a pain in the butt problem to have because when the housing is in the rinse tank you can't do the normal press all the buttons a few times without changing all of your settings - currently I'm muck diving in Tulamben and that black sand gets into everything so I'm between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

Mine is one of the earlier 7D housings off the production line, I saw one of the latest ones yesterday and would love to have the peace of mind that the new latch system gives - but I can't see them giving everyone an upgrade on this.

Edited by RedSeaDiver, 25 August 2010 - 03:24 AM.

[Timmoranuk]

I've got a Nauticam 7D housing and the only problem I've had so far is that the on/off switch on the housing will turn the camera off - but not on. Peter from Scubapix has told me that Nauticam are aware of this problem and they are sending parts to him to fix it. It's a pain in the butt problem to have because when the housing is in the rinse tank you can't do the normal press all the buttons a few times without changing all of your settings - currently I'm muck diving in Tulamben and that black sand gets into everything so I'm between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

Mine is one of the earlier 7D housings off the production line, I saw one of the latest ones yesterday and would love to have the peace of mind that the new latch system gives - but I can't see them giving everyone an upgrade on this.

If you remove the camera mounting plate you'll find that the right hand three hex bolts have shims between the plate and the housing (carefull, they're easy to loose..). Try swapping those to the the left side hex bolts which will 'jack' the camera up towards the on/off switch and may make a more positive contact. Hope this helps.

Edited by Timmoranuk, 25 August 2010 - 03:29 AM.

[jcclink]

Keep in mind that not all camera bodies are created equal. "Identical" bodies installed in the same housing may require individual "fine tuning" for all controls to line up perfectly. I've experienced this with both DSLR & video cameras.

Suggestions for new housings or housings after service/overhaul (changing any of the o-rings) -

Dynamic pressure test - dive without camera to ~50ft (just a # I like). Move ALL controls several times. Look for any leaks.
If you get a new port, test dive it without camera.
Any change that involves o-rings - test it.

A leak may not occur under static conditions (nothing is moving) but could under dynamic conditions.

Edited by jcclink, 25 August 2010 - 04:43 PM.

[JackConnick]

If you remove the camera mounting plate you'll find that the right hand three hex bolts have shims between the plate and the housing (carefull, they're easy to loose..). Try swapping those to the the left side hex bolts which will 'jack' the camera up towards the on/off switch and may make a more positive contact. Hope this helps.

You can also loosen the control ont he shaft and play withit's height and alignment. It's a bit fiddly, but sometime a tweak is all it takes.

Jack

[Drew]

If there is a lesson here it's that you want a good shop behind you and you need to plan on giving any new housing and setup a good workout before you go on a trip when you can't recover. Sometimes that's not possible but it's always a good idea. I learned that the hard way many years ago. That's the experience I think Tim was refering to.

I'm not sure that any amount of testing would've found the problem since both instances of the rocker arm failure were on subsequent dives (9+ dives for WT and 23rd dives for Benthichi). Misaligned controls due to manufacturing tolerances are one thing, but this seems to be an entirely different issue. So let's not assume it's a newbie error.
Manufacturers also have to accept that with the growing market, the users are no longer just enthusiasts with technical knowledge but also the casual user who doesn't do any sort of equipment workflow that's not in the manual. Furthermore, this consumer class (which is probably the bigger market segment) just expects housings to work out of the box, however unrealistic that may be.
Not knowing the specifics of the housing issue, I'll refrain from commenting what the causes are. Does 2 incidents out of the possible hundreds out there constitute a system "plagued" with flaws? That's a little premature to say without more data. Then again assuming the same rocker switches are the problems in the 2 reported incidents, that's an issue Nauticam has to deal with if they want to maintain their good name. Whether they are liable for the camera and lens would depend on the cause of the leak and that should be sorted out between the parties involved.

[Paul Kay]

Manufacturers also have to accept that with the growing market, the users are no longer just enthusiasts with technical knowledge but also the casual user who doesn't do any sort of equipment workflow that's not in the manual. Furthermore, this consumer class (which is probably the bigger market segment) just expects housings to work out of the box, however unrealistic that may be.

When I first read this I thought that it was a reasonable statement which sums up the current situation quite well but after consideration I'm not so sure. I think that what has changed is an attitude - the small consumer compacts and plastic housings now offer an entry into underwater photography which is far removed from the Nikonos/Motormarine entry point of film days - those cameras were often just as much in need of owner technical knowledge as housings IMHO and required a great deal of user input to use and keep running - most of which was not in the manual either. But expecting a dSLR housing to require as little input as a cheap plastic housing with a consumer compact inside - which I consider to have a limited lifespan in any case - is completely unrealistic. I will refrain from commenting on any of the specifics mentioned in this thread for a whole variety of reasons, but would point out that, as Drew indicates, with a dSLR housing there has to be an equipment workflow, which if deviated from or ignored may have dire consequences (as I have myself found out recently when a mistake nearly cost me a camera and lens). Part of my workflow (usually!) includes checking around controls for any signs of looseness/water ingress and any sign of anything out of place or damp/salt must not be ignored. Of course the pattern of workflow matures with experience and familiarity with equipment (over-familiarity can be a problem too) but reading through many previous threads on wetpixel will yield a great deal of information that would be difficult to find elsewhere and this information can be extremely valuable (or at least money saving). Lastly, part of the workflow has to be post dive washing and cleaning and an understanding of what is beneficial and what is not in both ideal and trying situations.

[DiscoverScuba]

I too haven't made many postings to this forum and I am also the proud owner of a new Nauticam 7D housing having recently moved away from Hugyfot due to techincal and customer service issues. My short time with the housing so far has been 100% positive. Yes I've only dived with the housing maybe 25 times, but every question or extra requirement has been dealt with professionally and promptly by Alex at Underwater Visions giving me great confidence in Nauticam as a brand. I am not new to underwater photography and I can definitely appreciate the thought and design excellence that has gone into this housing over many other housings I have used. I shore dive on the ragged reefs of Greece daily and this is a tough environment for any housing where I have to physically climb over rocks to get into the water.
Nauticam, yes, they are new on the block, but so far I can say that I believe that Nauticam are up there with the likes of Subal - producing robust, quality, innovative well supported housings.
I'll let you know how I get on after 500 dives. Mark.

[John Bantin]

I've been using housings of many different makes for 25 years. All I ask is that they keep the water out. When asked which is the best I always say that they all are until they aren't. It's never a question of if but when. Sometimes it's down to user error but often it's down to design-induced user error. This isn't a very useful post, is it?

[Drew]

Paul, the point I was making was that should the consumer do the required things like rinsing, cleaning and greasing the o-rings, making sure o-rings are seated etc, and they test the housing for leaks sans camera at the beginning of the trip, they expect that's all the maintenance they have to do (and it should all be in the user manuals!). Any consumer would assume the housing will be work after that. That's reasonable.
Specifically how does one check the integrity of those buttons and how often should they check it?
And the following does not pertain to any specific brand and certainly NOT Nauticam. But as meticulous as I am, I don't dunk the housing sans camera before every dive and test all buttons for leakage. If any housing manufacturer lists that as a prerequisite maintenance, I'd probably not buy it. At what point does the shift of responsibility go from manufacturer/dealer to end user?

Topic split from 550D thread: the 550D thread is here:
http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=37188

[Paul Kay]

often it's down to design-induced user error.

Would that be by designing something that's going to go underwater and be used by people then, John ?

[Ryan]

As a point of clarification for the original poster, a Nauticam Piano Key is no more or less complicated from a sealing point of view than a standard push button. Underneath that piano key is a push button, the piano key is just an external fixture that makes the pushbutton easier to push.

Push button springs do fail, causing them to stick. Some times from salt corrosion, or from a material problem. Replacing one is a 10 minute fix that any service center can perform, and I'm sure would be happy to do a no charge.

[John Bantin]

Would that be by designing something that's going to go underwater and be used by people then, John ?

People, Paul. You have astutely got to the root of the problem. There's a thread on YD about rebreathers currently. It brings me to the same conclusion.

[Paul Kay]

There's a thread on YD about rebreathers currently. It brings me to the same conclusion.

Ummmm. Isn't wetpixel civilised?

[Drew]

People, Paul. You have astutely got to the root of the problem. There's a thread on YD about rebreathers currently. It brings me to the same conclusion.

In that same vein, aren't housings assembled by people for people? We should just get rid of people in general