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"Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM", which Ikelite port?


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#1 ileiman

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 06:54 AM

Has anyone used the "Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM" lens
with Ikelite dSRL housing? Any suggestions what port to use?
Note, this is the new OS-version of the lens!

The lens is 89 mm long at wide, and 131 mm when zoomed all the way out.
This would suggest that the standard dome-port #5503.80 might just work, but does it vignette at the wide?
Or the #5510.28 modular port body might just work with 8" dome?

Has anyone tried?

And yes, I do know that the official Ikelite port chart says:
"Lens diameter too large to operate in port system." But this is not entirely true. The usual zoom gear clamp doesn't work, but with little tweaking with velcro-tape you can get the zoom gear working. There are some posts in wetpixel about how to do this for the HSM non-OS version.
Diopters with Sigma 17-70
Sigma 17-70 HSM with the velcro strap
I tried this with my OS-version, and the same trick works as well.
Unfortunately the ports I have are not long enough to allow zooming the lens to 70mm, so I can't try out myself how it works, and would hate to buy a port that doesn't work properly.
Canon 7d, Tokina 10-17mm fisheye, Canon EF-S 60mm Macro, Sigma 10-17mm OS HSM, Ikelite housing,
2x Ikelite ds-161 strobes with Stix 12"+12" arms with floats.
Canon ixus 980is in Canon housing.
Olympus c8080wz in Olympus housing.
website www.leiman.fi.

#2 blibecap

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:08 AM

My non os non hsm will vingnette slightly with the #5503.80. I have used it with the 8" dome successfully 5510.24.
Bill Libecap
Cincinnati, Oh
http://www.UwCameraStuff.com
Home of the Housing Sentry, the ultimate leak prevention system.

#3 ileiman

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 08:25 AM

My non os non hsm will vingnette slightly with the #5503.80. I have used it with the 8" dome successfully 5510.24.

Thanks for this information.

How is the optical performance with the 5510.24 +8" dome? Soft corners at wide?

The old non-HSM non-OS version is (looking from the datasheets) 83 mm at wide and 123 mm fully extended (vs. 89 to 131 mm on the new). So in theory, the new OS-version is 6 to 9 mm longer and might give better results in the same ports at wide end? But then it might not extend fully.
Canon 7d, Tokina 10-17mm fisheye, Canon EF-S 60mm Macro, Sigma 10-17mm OS HSM, Ikelite housing,
2x Ikelite ds-161 strobes with Stix 12"+12" arms with floats.
Canon ixus 980is in Canon housing.
Olympus c8080wz in Olympus housing.
website www.leiman.fi.

#4 blibecap

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 09:15 AM

Thanks for this information.

How is the optical performance with the 5510.24 +8" dome? Soft corners at wide? I don't have enough experience to answer that.

The old non-HSM non-OS version is (looking from the datasheets) 83 mm at wide and 123 mm fully extended (vs. 89 to 131 mm on the new). So in theory, the new OS-version is 6 to 9 mm longer and might give better results in the same ports at wide end? But then it might not extend fully.

It might be fine at the wide end and I think there is room at the telephoto end with both ports.

Send me your lens and $2000 and I will go on a week's trip and test it for you :) :P


Bill Libecap
Cincinnati, Oh
http://www.UwCameraStuff.com
Home of the Housing Sentry, the ultimate leak prevention system.

#5 JackConnick

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Posted 04 February 2011 - 04:14 PM

Ikelite says that they don't have a port that will work with the new HSM/HSM-OS version, sorry.

Jack

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Optical Ocean Sales.com Sea & Sea, Olympus, Ikelite, Athena, Zen, Fix, Nauticam, Aquatica, Seacam, Gates, 10Bar, Light & Motion, iTorch/I-DAS & Fantasea Line - Cameras, Housings, Strobes, Arms, Trays & Accessories
Blog & Gallery: Optical Ocean Sales Blog
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#6 ileiman

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 04:26 AM

Ikelite says that they don't have a port that will work with the new HSM/HSM-OS version, sorry.

It might be a good idea to read the ENTIRE post you are replying to. :)

But, anyway.... the ordinary Ikelite zoom clamp does not work as such, but there are a number of workarounds.
Here is a brute force workaround - a kinda proof of concept - that only took 5 minutes to implement and test.
Attach 2 pieces of self-adhesive velcro tapes to the lens zoom barrel:
Posted Image
Then attach the counterpart pieces to the Ikelite #5509.28 sleeve, shown here inside a modular port body that is attached to the camera housing:
Posted Image
Then attach the lens to the sleeve. This goes easily if you keep a slices of paper between the mating velcro tapes while pushing the lens thorugh the sleeve. Once the lens is attached to the camera body and everything is well aligned, then pull out the paper and squeeze the mating velcro pieces together:
Posted Image
You now have perfect and very smooth control over the zoom. The velcro tape attaches really firmly. The zoom of this lens has a tendency to creep, but the Ikelite zoom gear stops the creeping completely.
Posted Image
Now this being a brute-force quick&dirty workaround, it does have some drawbacks. I'm sure I can work out something more elegant.

Now the only big question is the best choice for the port length, that allows using this lens for somewhat decent "almost wideangle" at 17mm, and somewhat decent "almost macro" at 70mm with the least amount of optical quality issues possible. I know it's not going to be perfect.

But if anyone has tried already, I would be interested to hear about it. If not, then I'll just try myself - maybe... :P
Canon 7d, Tokina 10-17mm fisheye, Canon EF-S 60mm Macro, Sigma 10-17mm OS HSM, Ikelite housing,
2x Ikelite ds-161 strobes with Stix 12"+12" arms with floats.
Canon ixus 980is in Canon housing.
Olympus c8080wz in Olympus housing.
website www.leiman.fi.

#7 JackConnick

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Posted 05 February 2011 - 10:48 AM

This lens also requires about another 20mm extension over the older lens, FYI, like 60mm.

Jack

Jack Connick
Optical Ocean Sales.com Sea & Sea, Olympus, Ikelite, Athena, Zen, Fix, Nauticam, Aquatica, Seacam, Gates, 10Bar, Light & Motion, iTorch/I-DAS & Fantasea Line - Cameras, Housings, Strobes, Arms, Trays & Accessories
Blog & Gallery: Optical Ocean Sales Blog
Flickr Gallerys: Optical Ocean on Flickr


#8 ileiman

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 12:52 PM

Just out of curiosity, I did some actual testing with the Sigma lens at the pool.
The lens just barely fits into the Ikelite 8" dome with the 5510.11 body, which I use with the Tokina 10-17 fisheye, so I decided to give it a try, just to see what happens.

I locked the Sigma lens zoom ring to widest and shortest setting at 17 mm.
This puts the lens barrel's outer edges just a few millimeters under the dome, which should't be a very optimal position. However, the result was very positive. The lens gives very nice undistorted images, no soft corners. Overall sharpness was clearly less than topside though, but then this is quite a sharp lens. There was also some CA, which you don't see topside - not bad, but if you look for it, you will find some.

I made some calculations, and concluded that a port body that was something like 45 mm longer than the 5510.11 body would be a somewhat ideal compromise that would support the entire zooming range of the lens.
But then looking at the Ikelite modular port body offering, I discovered to my dismay that they do not have a body that would be even close to 45 mm.
- There is the 5510.24 which is 38 mm longer, but this is a bit too short for zooming fully out to get macro.
- The next step is the 5510.28, which is 60 mm longer, but this is a bit too long, at the verge of vignetting at wide angle end.

So not only is there an issue fitting the zoom gear, but Ikelite also hasn't got the correct length of a port body on the modular system. Even with extenders, the closest you can get is the combination of
5510.16 + 5510.54, which is 51 mm longer than 5510.11 body. But this should be better than either the .24 or .28, you just need to buy more stuff. And have one more possible point of leakage. And more stuff to carry on a trip...

The standard 6" dome 5503.55 looks like it could be the right length, but a smaller dome might have issues with corner sharpness.

Tough... :(
Canon 7d, Tokina 10-17mm fisheye, Canon EF-S 60mm Macro, Sigma 10-17mm OS HSM, Ikelite housing,
2x Ikelite ds-161 strobes with Stix 12"+12" arms with floats.
Canon ixus 980is in Canon housing.
Olympus c8080wz in Olympus housing.
website www.leiman.fi.

#9 ileiman

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 02:28 PM

I now found by experimentation the working port for this lens.
I am sharing the information just in case someone else needs the info.

The #5510.16 + #5510.54 (zoom body and 1.25" extension) with the 8" dome works very nicely at all focal lenghts. I just tested it at pool and it fully meets my expectations.
At 17mm it is a decent wide angle, and at 70mm it can do some sort of macro (1:2.8). The lens focuses at all focal lenghts and distances, and can focus to anything that keeps outside the dome. At very close distances the focus does hunt quite a bit, at longer distances focus locks fast. Images are sharp, even at corners and no serious chromatic aberration or vignetting at any focal length. The zoom ring hack with velcro tape works reliably.

Highly recommended as a general purpose "scouting" lens that offers a lot of flexibility. For really wide angle the Tokina 10-17 is of course no match, and for true 1:1 macro the EF-S 60mm macro behind a flat port is of course much better. The Sigma 17-70 is something to bridge between these two.

I also tested over/under shots at 17mm with the dome and it works somewhat for that too, however if the focus is sharp for the under-part, then the over part is slightly out of focus. Tokina 10-17 works much better for over/under shots.
Canon 7d, Tokina 10-17mm fisheye, Canon EF-S 60mm Macro, Sigma 10-17mm OS HSM, Ikelite housing,
2x Ikelite ds-161 strobes with Stix 12"+12" arms with floats.
Canon ixus 980is in Canon housing.
Olympus c8080wz in Olympus housing.
website www.leiman.fi.

#10 TomR1

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 03:30 PM

I actually use this lens in a flared flat port which alows full view at 17mm and full extension at 70mm. I had a similer problem with my Seatool housing and solved the problem by having a zoom gear permanently affixed to the 17/70. It is a general purpose hunting lens and is neither a true macro (I use anAf-105-VR) nor a true wide angle lens but appears to be the best GP lens available.

Regards