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#1 Jackiebalboa

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 03:00 AM

Hello everyone !!!

I have doubt in the choice of my camera !!

I would be grateful if you can give me tips for a good camera with excellent definition and resolution.

I have doubt between the DC 1000 Sealife and the PENTAX Optio W90...

What do you think ?

#2 ChrigelKarrer

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 05:57 AM

I don't know both well,
but i know that the Canon G11/12 or S90/95 would be the camera you get most out of it as i have a G11.
You can choose between the (prices are aprox) 200$ OEM Housing, the 600$ Ikelite or the 1200$ FIX or Patima aluminium housing.
The internal strobe can be used "useful" only on the Canon OEM housing, for Ikelite and especially FIX/PATIMA housing you will need a extrenal strobe.

The new P7000 from Nikon may be a option too, but i have no personal experience with it and the choice of a housing may be limited.

Chris

Edited by ChrigelKarrer, 07 April 2011 - 05:58 AM.

Nikon D800 - Sigma 15mm - Nikon 105mm Micro VR - Hugyfot Housing - 3 Inon Z-240 strobes - 2x2 8'' ULCS arms

Canon G12 with Patima aluminium housing - Fuji E900 with Ikelite housing
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#3 Jackiebalboa

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Posted 08 April 2011 - 09:28 AM

Thank you very much Chris for your answer and your tips :rolleyes:

I think I will go for the Ikelite, but I still wondering ! I will tell you when I made my choice !



Maybe the Canon are bether for the Brand no ? I am really sorry, I don't now these camera well...

#4 Lars_N

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Posted 09 April 2011 - 11:36 AM

For some reason Ikelite has chosen to place the flash diffusor against the uw housing; this means that you have the ligth source far from the end of the port so when you shoot macro's the port will cast a shadow over a large part of the subject. With this in mind I understand that this is not found useful. I am not fully aware of how the Patima system is with regards to the flash diffusor but trust this is also close to the uw housing. The Canon solution is to place the diffusor at the end of the port so the light is spread from there and the shadow subsequently much smaller.

However the Ikelite housing (I have one for my Canon S90) has a groove in the middle of the port and having seen that I simply increased the diameter of the scalloped part of the diffusor so it is possible to place the diffusor in the groove. Here it is much closer to the port end, the shadow much smaller and this housing subsequently fairly useful for macro.

Edited by Lars_N, 09 April 2011 - 11:33 PM.

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#5 ChrigelKarrer

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 06:35 AM

Jackiebalboa,

i dont think that the G11/12 is better because it's a Canon. This cameras are a class of it's own as they have external controls like a DSLR but in a small housing, unleashing creativity for experienced photograpers. The Canon S90/95 are the same type of camera in a smaller housing and are lacking the hotshoe for a external strobe and some of the dials the G11/12 have, but for the sensor and processor they are identically.
FIX FISHEYE builds a supersmall and cute aluminium housing for the S90/95, expensive but very sturdy and well made, giving you a very small, camera rig.


The Nikon P7000 is a similar type camera and it seems that the P7000 is going very strong as well

For some reason Ikelite has chosen to place the flash diffusor against the uw housing; this means that you have the ligth source far from the end of the port so when you shoot macro's the port will cast a shadow over a large part of the subject. With this in mind I understand that this is not found useful. I am not fully aware of how the Patima system is with regards to the flash diffusor but trust this is also close to the uw housing. The Canon solution is to place the diffusor at the end of the port so the light is spread from there and the shadow subsequently much smaller.



However the Ikelite housing (I have one for my Canon S90) has a groove in the middle of the port and having seen that I simply increased the diameter of the scalloped part of the diffusor so it is possible to place the diffusor in the groove. Here it is much closer to the port end, the shadow much smaller and this housing subsequently fairly useful for macro.


The Patima housing uses a strobe bulkhead where the optical cable will firmly sit. This disable the use of the internal strobe but give you a perfect solution using a external optical triggered slave strobe. I am using a INON D2000 strobe on my G11/Patima housing and i am very satisfied with the results.

The Ikelite G11/12 housing has a electrical bulkhead giving you full TTL using a Ikelite strobe and a dial for fine tune the Ikelite strobe output, while the S90/95 is lacking this "important" feature because of the lack of a hotshoe on the S90/95.

The G11/12 camera is such a advanced camera that's a pity (backscatter, low power, shadows) to use the internal strobe as any housing (i know) for 28/24mm WA zoom lens will cast shadows due the necessary size of the port to allow zooming from wide angle to tele.

Chris

Edited by ChrigelKarrer, 10 April 2011 - 06:48 AM.

Nikon D800 - Sigma 15mm - Nikon 105mm Micro VR - Hugyfot Housing - 3 Inon Z-240 strobes - 2x2 8'' ULCS arms

Canon G12 with Patima aluminium housing - Fuji E900 with Ikelite housing
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#6 derway

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 09:35 AM

unfortunately the canon g series are not decent, when it comes to auto focus and overall shutter lag.

The panasonic lx5 and the oly xz1 are much faster focus and shorter overall shutter lag.

They have the same size sensor as the g12.
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#7 Jackiebalboa

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 05:00 AM

Thank you for all your answers :(

I will take all your advices into account ! I will tell you which one I have choose :)

Jack

#8 Lars_N

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 10:43 AM

The Ikelite G11/12 housing has a electrical bulkhead giving you full TTL using a Ikelite strobe and a dial for fine tune the Ikelite strobe output, while the S90/95 is lacking this "important" feature because of the lack of a hotshoe on the S90/95.



Knowing that some photographers prefers the electric connection requiring a hotshoe on the housing and find that this is the only right system there is also an increasing number of photographers preferring the optical system. There are pros and cons for both systems but I think it is worth mentioning that where previously DSLR cameras (almost) only had the electrical system most of them now also have an option for the optical method.

Edited by Lars_N, 11 April 2011 - 10:43 AM.

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#9 rameus

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 04:37 AM

Hey Jackie

I do share the point that Chrigel makes since I do own a Canon G10 for myself with an Ikelite housing and an external strobe. This is for me (I consider my self to be an ambitious amateur) a perfect solution since it is relatively small to take with you and the price is affordable (300$ for the cam, 500$ for the housing and of couse the strobe with arm again 800$). But if you compare it with other systems which claim to be professional already it takes already shots I can live with. If you want some examples, you can find them on my page here.

That's it from my side ;-)

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#10 justinwood

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 01:16 AM

It is great to know about camera choice. Thanks for sharing.
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#11 TomR1

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 12:12 PM

For an inexpensive choice go to the oly xz1 for faster focus and shorter overall shutter lag. The Oly case is fine. Pair with an INON s-2000 for a rig below $1500

To spend more money choose the Oly E-PL2 with Oly case and S-2000. Pair with an INON S-2000 for about $2000.

To spend even more choose a Panasonic LK-5. Pair with a s-2000 for about $2500

------------then a big jump in cost and performance to a dSLR--------------------------------------

In my view the best, low-cost, dSLR is an Oly e-620 with a 14/54 lens, Oly housing. Pair with an INON Z-240 for below $4000. The lens is a general purpose lens capable of both decent macro and wide-angle.

The best Macro dSLR setup is a Nikon d-300s or D-90 (less expensive, smaller) with an af-105-vr lens. Cases vary. This is a cropped sensor camera with a very fast focusing lens. $6000-$10000 depending on the housing and strobes. The Nikon is superior to the Canon because of the lens, not the camera.

The best wide angle setup (for the price) is a Nikon D-700 or the equivilent Canon full frame with a Tonika 10/17 fisheye lens. Full frame provides better high iso performance in low light. $7000-$11000 depending on housing and strobe.

In my opinion anyway.

Tom

#12 derway

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:21 PM

The lx5 is down to $337 amazon.

The ikelite housing is $550 at reef.

$887 for housing and camera

The xz1 + housing is $770.

The lx5 is much more responsive. Much more of a photographers tool. Much better control over video shooting. Check out the review at reef:

http://www.reefphoto.com/kb.php?id=28

Edited by derway, 11 June 2011 - 10:01 PM.

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#13 Steve Williams

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:29 PM

The Nikon is superior to the Canon because of the lens, not the camera.


Curious Tom, based on what?

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#14 bvanant

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:14 AM

Curious Tom, based on what?

Steve

If you look at the DXO lense scores on relatively similar cameras (they don't rate only the lens, but a lens camera combo) you see that the two lenses are mostly indistinguishable. On the other hand, I don't quite understand the comment about shooting full frame with the Tokina 10-17 as first choice.

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#15 TomR1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:44 PM

The lx5 is down to $337 amazon.

The ikelite housing is $550 at reef.

$887 for housing and camera

The xz1 + housing is $770.

The lx5 is much more responsive. Much more of a photographers tool. Much better control over video shooting. Check out the review at reef:

http://www.reefphoto.com/kb.php?id=28


Agree that the LX5 is a better camera. However you'll need a Ds-161 strobe and Ikelite cable for an electrical connection. About 1250. Total is about $2000. A good choice but a larger package than the Xz-1 or EPL-2 OTOH, the Ds-161 is an excellent strobe that also works well as a video strobe where the INON strobes don't.

#16 TomR1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:04 PM

Curious Tom, based on what?

Steve


The AF-105-VR is a very fast focusing lens. Nikon shooters sometimes pan it because they are used to the slower-focus older Nikon 105 lens but once you get used to it the quick autofocus allows interesting ways to shoot.

For example, in my Wakatobi in Super Macro (http://www.tomandgin...uper_macro.html) I explain how I set the camera in focus priority with continuous autofocus, no delay and back up from the subject until it comes into focus. With super macro, if there is any current and either the diver or the subject is not perfectly still, the shot is only in focus for a split-second.

My understanding is that neither the Canon 100MM nor the older Nikon will capture the shot as quickly. Maybe some people can do this with hand-eye coordination but not many I'll wager, and certainly not me. In addition, with a Pigmy, once the strobe fires the Pigmy will turn away. You get one shot then you start all over again.

Another example is shooting a moving subject from a foot and a half, a Fairy Basslet, or a juvinile Drum for example. To get the critter in the pose I want I don't have time to half-click, compose and release. I rely on continuous autofocus to take the shot. In thr case of the basslet I try to catch the fish in a swish position that creates depth while getting the eye in the focus rectangle. In the case of the Drum I try to get the long tail streamers going in opposite directions.

Regards,

#17 TomR1

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 09:07 PM

If you look at the DXO lense scores on relatively similar cameras (they don't rate only the lens, but a lens camera combo) you see that the two lenses are mostly indistinguishable. On the other hand, I don't quite understand the comment about shooting full frame with the Tokina 10-17 as first choice.

Bill


I am not a wide angle shooter. This was an opinion shared by several knowledgable people. I personally have a 12/24 reclilinear lens. I suppose that a 10.5 fisheye is another favorite.

Regards,

#18 derway

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:16 AM

A ds-51 would be more appropriate than a huge ds-161, I would think. And much cheaper.

That and a sola 600 or ivideo pro would make a nice package oriented towards photo.
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#19 TomR1

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 07:49 AM

A ds-51 would be more appropriate than a huge ds-161, I would think. And much cheaper.

That and a sola 600 or ivideo pro would make a nice package oriented towards photo.



I found the DS-51 most inadaquate. Possibly it was just my experience but when I upgraded to a DS-125 it made a huge difference.

Generally, I see a problem with the Ikelite line. If one has a traditional dSLR (I had a d-200) with a couple of large strobes one has an excellent package that is rather bulky, but much cheaper than metal housings. However, the smaller form factors that include the DS-51 seem to be inferior to both more expensive solutions and less expensive solutions from camera manufacturers that include an Inon Z-240 or s-2000. In general, plastic housings from Olympus and Canon tend to be smaller, less expensive and less bulky than the equivilent Ikelite housing. In addition I find that the Inon s-2000 is the superior solution for a small strobe. I carry s-2000's as spares and lend them to fellow divers when their strobe fails. The almost universal comment by those divers is how much more powerful the s-2000 is than other strobes of this size. As a result I don't tend to recommend Ikelite solutions for small form factors when a camera manufacturer's housing that supports optical strobe connections exist.

I agree with you that the LX-5 is a great camera. At the Long Beach Scuba Show Reef Photo housed it in a non-ikelite case that was a small form factor and supported optical strobe connections. Unfortunately the cost went up to above the Oly epl-2

Regards,

#20 bvanant

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 08:05 AM

I am not a wide angle shooter. This was an opinion shared by several knowledgable people. I personally have a 12/24 reclilinear lens. I suppose that a 10.5 fisheye is another favorite.

Regards,

The tokina 10-17 is indeed a great wide angle lens but only for cropped sensors (with a tele it works fine on full frame, but it is not a full frame lens). The new Canon 8-15 should fill that gap for full frame and cropped sensors. As for autofocus times, in my hands the Canon 100 IS (not the old 100) focuses as fast from infinity to 1:1 as the 105 VR but that probably has a much to do with the body as the lens itself (Canon 7D, Nikon D7000) so in my hands at least this is a wash.

Bill

Edited to correct lens number ;-)

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