155 replies to this topic

[uwxplorer]

The question was whether there was anything to learn from iMovie to anticipate FCP X's release, as FCP X's preview showed some similarities with iMovie's UI. I have never used FCP, only FCE, but except for the codec choice (none in FCE), both transcode AVCHD footage before rendering anything.
The big question is whether FCP X will indeed dispense of this step, which is very time consuming. The preview seemed to indicate so. My curiosity led me to look into whether the new iMovie version (released last year) would have secretly adopted a similar technology. The symptom would have been a blazing fast rendering, no transcoding, etc...The answer appears to be clearly NO.
But furthermore, for many users, it has become an incredibly frustrating app to use (there does not seem to be any workaround for the insanely slow "import" issue mentioned above).
Which could be a non sequitur if iMovie did not have an XML export option to FCP, which apparently some were using to make rough cuts in iMovie before refining everything in FCP (or FCE). A crawling iMovie will certainly not make this attractive anymore...
But again, at $15, I am not going to get mad at Apple to have screwed up on this one. Plus I had kept a copy of iMovie '09, like I had a copy of iMovie HD, before upgrading (iMovie '11 installation basically overwrites iMovie '09).

[Steve Douglas]

While improvements were made, Final Cut Express was missing many of the codecs like Pro Res that made for easier editing. In fact, the only decent codec it uses is the Apple Animation Codec which is what many of us were using back in the 4x3 DV days. Many of the pro tools in Express were also lacking like the 3 way color corrector. I have the latest version of iMovie and have always had it but never used it. Two weeks ago, shortly after NAB, I decided to open it up and play with it a bit. Hated every second of it. Adobe gave me their latest CS5.5 collection which I downloaded and installed yesterday. Opened up Premier Pro and played around in that for the first time. Still don't know it but it seemed fairly intuitive and if the new FCX does not meet professional level expectations and is missing many of the important features we have finally gained over the years, you can expect editors to either stay with FC7 or switch NLEs entirely. From speaking with various pros in the field who produce commercials, industrial and theatrical films, and speaking for myself as well, if FCX is missing the Boris Vector based text generator, missing the vectorscope and waveform monitor, missing multi cam editing, 3 way color correction, time remapping, frame by frame keyframing and other features that folk have grown accustomed and dependent upon, than it will be abandoned. As 'press' I have spoken to most of the heads of the major 3rd party software companies and none of them are under NDAs which means that they can't even begin to recalibrate their FX plug ins until Apple releases X. The heads of several hardware companies like Matrox, NVIDIA and AJA, however, are under NDA which is a good thing as it means that they are already working on compatibility issues.

I have always been a Mac guy but, and unfortunately, there is a huge difference between the way Adobe and Apple treat their 'influencers and press'. Adobe bends over backward to help get us the NFRs of new products, calls us on the phone and flies us to various trainings and such. For the most part, they are a pleasure to deal with. Apple, however, though we still get NFRs, treats us like we had leprosy or something. It is nigh impossible to get a returned phone call or email. Rather than create an anxious enthusiasm for X's release, they have only succeeded in pissing people off and creating a panic among users. I should have received the NFR for it as soon as it was in Beta so that, as writers, we could ht the ground running, but we will have to wait just like everyone else. A shame. However, my bet is that Steve Martin of Ripple Training will have tutorial discs ready to go almost immediately and, at least, I know his training DVDs are of the highest quality.

We really have to wait and see. I also wonder what the instructors in Film schools are going to do. Students will want to be trained on the latest and greatest but the instructors themselves will be novices on an entirely new application and GUI. Will they stick with 7 or try to wallow through X?

Apple has greatly succeeded in creating mass speculation which is really all it is up till now.
Steve

[uwxplorer]

As a note, I convinced Apple that I had no use for the new iMovie, since it took forever to ingest my videos and thus I would appreciate a refund. This is in progress. We will see. I went through iTunes (the App side of it) to do that. I wonder whether they will do the same when people start realizing they don't like FCPX and want a refund?

[Steve Douglas]

Good point. In today's paper it reported that Apple has now surpassed Google as the most widely used software company or something to that effect.
I think I must be the only idiot to actually have lost money with Apple stock when the market crashed and I got out of it. Dumb me.
Steve

[recd]

Final Cut X

[peterbkk]

An interesting first-look at FCP X in the latest from Ken Stone:

http://www.kenstone....ook_martin.html

Regards
Peter

Edited by peterbkk, 22 June 2011 - 07:14 AM.

[uwxplorer]

An interesting first-look at FCP X in the latest from Ken Stone:

I am not buying it until I get a more powerful MBP, but it seems perfect for guys like me who are getting tired of endless rendering but don't need the bells & whistles of pro tools!
I can't quite understand though whether AVCHD footage is transcoded or not. It seems it is, but you can play back the footage right away in the timeline (sorry, storyline)? Is it something that will be also feasible outside of FCP in Lion (new QT version reading mts files natively???)?
It's only if you start modifying the footage (effects, transitions, etc) that the transcoded version comes into play? So big drives needed...
I guess the experience of people will depend on the machine used (BTW, does it take advantage of NVidia GPUs? I did not see anything about that, although it wouldn't matter for MBP users).
Very curious to hear feedback from UW videographers (and videos!).

[Nick Hope]

Can it open FCP7 projects?

[peterbkk]

Can it open FCP7 projects?

No. Maybe Apple or a 3rd party might make a converter.

But it will open iMovie projects and events - which says a lot about it's origins...

Regards
Peter

[uwxplorer]

From the online help:

Supported media files: AVCHD (including AVCCAM, AVCHD Lite, and NXCAM) (etc...)

Transcode media files: Whether Final Cut Pro uses proxy media or your original or optimized media during playback is determined by the playback setting you select in the Final Cut Pro Editing preferences.

[uwxplorer]

BTW, everybody (and I mean everybody) should read the Release Notes before buying Final Cut Pro X!

[peterbkk]

BTW, everybody (and I mean everybody) should read the Release Notes before buying Final Cut Pro X!

Succinct.

[uwxplorer]

From a lengthy list of comments to a NYT blog about FCP X, this one from Tom Wolsky:

One other point: Apple has touted that it edits multiple formats natively. This is an out and out misrepresentation. All video is rendered into a single format and codec. There is a very limited choice of codecs, and not the best codecs for most situations, no Pro Res LT for instance as a render option. Because everything is background rendered huge ProRes, high data rate files are being generated. This is NOT editing in native formats. This is editing with background rendering.

what gives?

[uwxplorer]

From this Apple page, regarding supported formats and I/O (down the page):

Native editing3 support for:[...] AVCHD, including Panasonic AVCCAM and Sony NXCAM [...]

Note 3: Native editing includes support for import and playback without transcoding.

What it does not include is not mentioned, but more likely than not, what it does not mention is not included. In other words, it will play back AVCHD clips without transcoding, but any modification of the clip will require transcoding. From some reviews read on the topic, it seems that the background transcoding (and rendering when needed) is resource hungry, as expected.

[midael]

Came across this in Youtube. I guess FCPX convinced at least one production team! ;-)

[TheRealDrew]

Guess this one may have been seen before, the standard sendup

Note there are some bad words in the subtitles, so don't play it in a NSFW or if offended by some four letter words and variations thereof

[uwxplorer]

I sincerely feel for the pros among you...
Apple's attitude was beyond disdain for its FCP users.
But on the other hand, to make FCP X compatible with FCP 7 and provide all the former tools of Studio would have (will?) required much more work (how much is not clear, but maybe not THAT much).
Meanwhile, apparently, the prosumer market is very happy with this intermediate release, and Apple's coffers are feeling up with easy cash.
It would be very easy for Apple to say: "we will provide backward compatibility with FCP projects and all pro features in XX months from now". But, that would still leave FCP 7 users the only one on the market with maddening render time. Frustrating to say the least.

[wagsy]

so FCP x is just iMovie HD in disguise

[jonny shaw]

Looks very much like that.

Those Hitler videos make me laugh every time!

[SimonSpear]

Guess this one may have been seen before, the standard sendup

Note there are some bad words in the subtitles, so don't play it in a NSFW or if offended by some four letter words and variations thereof

LOL LOL

Anyone buying FCP X? I never upgraded from 6 and now I've no idea what I'm going to do

Edited by SimonSpear, 27 June 2011 - 12:10 PM.