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Apple announces Final Cut Pro X for $299


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#121 Drew

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 01:05 PM

Jeff, Apple is very good at making the complicated simpler. That's the great part and I'm sure many of FCX features will migrate to other NLEs.Just like many features from other NLES were copied and improved upon.
With FCX Apple decided to give those who want more features than iMovie a "pro" version. And to market it better they kept the name. Another issue is that the basic architecture of FCX is based on the AV foundation, which gives it good performance with AVC/H.264/MPEG4 codecs but not so much MPEG2 based codecs like XDCAM/MXF which still have to be rewrapped to QT.
According to Apple, the updates will not be based on release dates but on availability, which means v1.x could pop out next week and v2.0 in Oct.

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#122 loftus

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 01:49 PM

I also agree with Drew that Apple has simply decided to target X at the majority of editors who are making home movies, you tube and such.

I think this may be the short term strategy, but in the longer term it makes no sense as the present home movie crowd are already well served by iMovie.
In the medium to longer term it's hard to imagine they won't cater to the demands of the pro, and probably at a very attractive price point ultimately. Aperture was pretty crappy in version 1, but those of us who stuck with it till Version 3 are pretty happy for the most part and only $79.99
Apple is obviously changing their whole software strategy with the App store etc. Charging less for software, making the whole purchase /upgrade thing a breeze, but of course locking in users, limiting unauthorized use of software in multiple computers etc. Downloaded Lion yesterday, clearly there is a unification process of the whole Apple Mac, iPad, iPhone interface and cross connectivity etc Over a million downloads the first day!
iCloud is going to further unify everything - take a picture or video, automatically downloaded to the cloud and ready for you anywhere you want to access it immediately. I just wish Apple would buy Nikon or something. They are so damn flush with cash it's insane.

Edited by loftus, 22 July 2011 - 01:50 PM.

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#123 TheRealDrew

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

One problem with X is that there are several functions that literally do not work. There have always been bugs that needed to be sorted out in future versions but Apple put too much of a rush on this. X is a beta app in my mind.



After trying now for a couple of days, that is probably a very kind understatement. I knew the issues (no XML, no old projects, no multi cam and the rest) but gave it a shot anyway trying to work on things that in theory are in the FCP X realm of doable/trying to put things together. For REAL basic things maybe it would work, but I did a shoot with a few cameras the other day and was perfectly fine to work with compound clips with a few tracks, I have even done it from time to time in FCP 7 on multiple tracks. Put the things in. After 5 hours of waiting for synch clips (the time really did not bother me, if it worked, cool, I can get used to it and set up things around the workflow) got a noisy mess with things out of synch and not even close. PluralEyes did it exactly in a matter of minutes. I think there are alot of cool bits and pieces, but not impressed. At all.

I may try one more time and export the synched material from FCP 7, but right now it is doing some things in the background and will not let me quit.

#124 Drew

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 03:14 AM

The thing is with FCX is it is a completely new piece of software, rewritten with AV foundation as the media base. Not just a new look but even the terminology is new. What's old is the Final Cut Pro name.
Now even the Mini and Beetle keep a basic shape when being revamped. With all v1.0 software, there wil be more features missing than availabe.
Then as TRD says, LION's unified window view is the basis for the GUI. Could they have given the guys like Graham @ Red a head's up? No. Because this version couldn't possibly work in the commercial environment for anything but the simplest projects.

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#125 loftus

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 03:55 AM

Then as TRD says, LION's unified window view is the basis for the GUI. Could they have given the guys like Graham @ Red a head's up? No. Because this version couldn't possibly work in the commercial environment for anything but the simplest projects.

Are you referring to Full Screen Apps? I thought this is optional for any program.
From Apple Website:
'Any app with full-screen capability has a full-screen button in the top right of the app window. Just click it and the app fills the screen. Click the button again to bring the app back to the desktop.'
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#126 uwxplorer

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:15 PM

The official answer of Apple to some of the complaints above: http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/
I'd translate that as "be patient, it's a brand new app".
Meanwhile it does not seem to run smoothly but on the most powerful machines... so it is not for the basic amateur either, who may want to run it on his or her MBP.

#127 Drew

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 09:13 PM

Even Conan cuts into FCPX

[youtubehd]LxKYuF9pENQ[/youtubehd]

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#128 Steve Douglas

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Posted 02 September 2011 - 10:57 AM

The Conan video has actually been out for quite some time. Never the less, a funny parody.

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#129 ATJ

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:19 PM

Reading through this thread it seems FCP X would be right for me. Before I spend the AU$320, I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something.

I'm new to video (had a GoPro for 2 months and housed my D7000 for the first time last weekend) and don't see myself needing to do any professional editing. I plan to use video to capture things that still just doesn't do justice - like a cuttlefish changing colours - and also recording dive trips.

I have used iMovie '09 to create some projects and it found it pretty easy to use. One thing that annoys me is I end up with two copies of the captured media files. From what I have read FCP X lets me import the media files, leaving them in place. As both the GoPro and D7000 use H.264 will FCP X still make a(n optimised) copy? I would also like to be able to have more power over colour adjustments. Is FCP X better than iMovie for that?

I'm not sure I understand the lack of multi-camera support. Will I still be able to pull in footage from the GoPro and D7000 into the one Event Library and make a project that combines both?

For stills, Lightroom gives me all the control I need and it looks like FCP X might be like a AV equivalent of Lightroom.

Edit: I should add that I have started looking through the Ken Stone tutorials and it all looks pretty straightforward.

Thanks,

Edited by ATJ, 11 December 2011 - 07:21 PM.


#130 Drew

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:29 PM

It's should work well for most people who are familiar with iMovie. The multicam issue is more about have 2 or more cameras capturing the same shot from different angles. It's not as intuitive as the previous method but has its own logic in working with limited multicam. For your purposes it's fine.
The issue with FCX is that it does background rendering, which means there's a pile of rendered files (all at Pro Res size) growing in your HDD somewhere, which you'll have to remember to toss out at some point. The color correction tool is very decent. It's definitely a program that non-pro editors will find very powerful, especially if they don't have any previous NLE experience.

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#131 ATJ

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:24 AM

Thanks, Drew.

#132 peterbkk

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 04:08 AM

Reading through this thread it seems FCP X would be right for me. Before I spend the AU$320, I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something.

I'm new to video (had a GoPro for 2 months and housed my D7000 for the first time last weekend) and don't see myself needing to do any professional editing. I plan to use video to capture things that still just doesn't do justice - like a cuttlefish changing colours - and also recording dive trips.

I have used iMovie '09 to create some projects and it found it pretty easy to use. One thing that annoys me is I end up with two copies of the captured media files. From what I have read FCP X lets me import the media files, leaving them in place. As both the GoPro and D7000 use H.264 will FCP X still make a(n optimised) copy? I would also like to be able to have more power over colour adjustments. Is FCP X better than iMovie for that?

I'm not sure I understand the lack of multi-camera support. Will I still be able to pull in footage from the GoPro and D7000 into the one Event Library and make a project that combines both?

For stills, Lightroom gives me all the control I need and it looks like FCP X might be like a AV equivalent of Lightroom.

Edit: I should add that I have started looking through the Ken Stone tutorials and it all looks pretty straightforward.

Thanks,


I've been using Apple FCP X for a few months now.

Here is a recent example: This was cut entirely in FCP X with the opening titles in Motion and the music soundtrack in SmartSound. I even use FCP X for the narration recording.

Once you get used to its paradigm, it is very fast and produces great quality.

I think you can ignore most of the negative comments about FCP X. Most of these emanate from people struggling to make the paradigm shift from the older NLE style. Some are about genuine functionality gaps but they tend to be minor and I doubt if you run into any of these gaps in your work.

Drew is right about the rendering files but (a) disk space is cheap and (b) a good habit is to create a new "final" copy of every project and zap the working copies at the end of the project. (make sure you keep the original footage though)

I do keep two copies of the video files. But more from my obsession with backup. I have backups of my backups...

Regards
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#133 Drew

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:22 AM

The problem with Apple is that it can and will drop support for software at any time and it won't bat an eyelid. Shake, Color, X-serve etc etc, all left quite a few people with huge purchases of Apple hardware and left in a lurch, despite promises of replacements at trade shows. In short, the negatives aren't just about the GUI change or how undernourished the features are on FCX compared to FCP7, but also about how they dropped support on Color, DVDSP etc without any warning... all the while pushing the FCS supposed "64bit" replacement.
The difference with Adobe, Avid etc is that they live and die by their software success, so as long as they are alive, the software will be supported somehow, especially their staple products. Premiere Pro actually ended on Mac in the 90s because they weren't selling any. I'd rather spend the $XXXX knowing I'd have a viable upgrade (with improved features) in a year's time than risk being left dry by Apple. I personally got burnt with Shake and FCServer, I know so many more people who invested in much more and were left dry. It doesn't hurt Apple at all because the iProducts make up for it. Plus the MacPro may now be pushed into extinction soon.

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#134 Steve Douglas

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:48 AM

The background rendering issue should be a non issue since you can turn it on or off by just unchecking it in the FCP preferences. It actually can be quite handy however, as you experiment with different filters and fx, the background work does build many render files. In Final Cut Pro Studio I used to use the Render Manager all the time, especially once I finished a sequence, I would delete all render files for that project and then just re render the final sequence. In FCP X, you can do that as well by going to the project library and 'delete all files'. Then re render just your finished project. The background rendering does go very fast in X, at least that has been my experience. Since I know no one who is an expert in X including myself, I can say that the more I use it the more intuitive I am finding it. Since I do not do much multi cam work I really don't miss that feature tho topside shooters doing commercials and films certainly would. The thing I miss most is not being able to use my Matrox MXO2 box to see my project on an external monitor for proper color correction. I also miss the 3 way color corrector and many of the 3rd party plug ins I might have used regularly in FCP7. However, they will come eventually. Meanwhile FCP X has a far superior media management system than Studio did and depending upon your graphics card and the amount of ram you have, is very fast. I do think some of the things are hokey like the effects browser but even there, I can see the value of seeing the effect upon your clip without having to first apply it. Some of the keyboard shortcuts and workflow are overly multi stepped and could be simplified as well. Basically, I am still discovering stuff I like and don't like.
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Edited by Steve Douglas, 12 December 2011 - 03:33 PM.

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#135 peterbkk

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:35 PM

The problem with Apple is that it can and will drop support for software at any time and it won't bat an eyelid.

I know so many more people who invested in much more and were left dry.


Isn't it funny how people see the same thing with a very different perspective?

I've used Apple products since 1986 and I feel that I've never been left dry. For everything I've ever used, there has always been a pathway forwards. Sometimes that pathway seemed strange at first, (remember OS 9 to OS X) but, the end state was always better for me. Just gotta have a little faith that they know what they are doing in their technology choices.

The price of innovation is that the old stuff has to be discarded to make way for the new.

Regards
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#136 Drew

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:14 PM

Well the BBC and Telepictures dropped FC and went to Adobe and Avid. Telepictures even threw out Apple computers (great sale!) and went to PC. So at some level, there are those who don't agree with Apple's products, at least for this generation.

One must also remember that editors who work for directors/producers etc cannot afford to use a product they can't present on a big screen, or deliver on a LTO. It's totally different to a one person show like an event/wedding shooter or small indie project.

Visionary product designers are paid big bucks to foresee the future beyond the now or the past. Sometimes to leap forward, it takes to run a few steps back. I had a long talk with a post friend way back in june about FCX and while we were messing with it, we noticed the number of keystrokes that required the 2nd hand support had lessened significantly to the point that it was almost one handed operation, like the input of an ipad or iphone. Is FCX the ground work for things like gesture recognition editing (think Minority Report) I studied waaayyy back in the college as a theoretical interface? Is that even a good thing? Time will tell.

Peter, Apple has been successfully sued for selling products then cutting off support for it. The powerbook G3 was suppose to be optimized for MacOSX, it was advertised as so. But when the code writers came out with MacOSX, the G3 ran like PPC601. That's one example of bad advertising and mislaid promises. My previous posts on Xserve, Shake, FCServer all point to the same MO. Just because it hasn't hurt you either financially or otherwise doesn't mean it hasn't affected other people. When you get this sort of reaction to a lousy piece of software, it's not just internet meme or mob mentality. The product doesn't meet the criteria of many people. Editors aren't always on the forefront of technology since it requires learning and memorization of the interface.

Following your logic, Apple released a program assuming all editors would never need to go back to their old projects AND also demand their clients to accept only file based deliveries, forget the server hardware that Apple sold them just 6 mths ago. Ever had to recut an older program for DVD/online? Or how about an extended cut? Use FCP7 again you say? Why bother when there are programs out there which can do things faster, and natively? Only 3 cameras easily available can actually shoot 4k, yet none of them can be edited natively. Yet they made sure Starburst dissolve was kept and improved. It's one of the most bizzarro "innovations" I've seen.

While the promise of innovations is wonderful, projects that need real tools to cut now are required! And that isn't FCX. So yeah, Apple left many people behind.

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#137 ATJ

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 05:24 PM

Despite the dirty deeds Apple may have done and may still be doing, I have bought FCP X now and it is downloading. I managed to get it for 25% off thanks to the App Store being tied to my Apple ID which is tied to iTunes. The local servo has a 2 x $20 iTunes cards for $30.

#138 jonny shaw

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

Yet they made sure Starburst dissolve was kept and improved.


You make me laugh Drew :)

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#139 peterbkk

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:55 PM

While the promise of innovations is wonderful, projects that need real tools to cut now are required! And that isn't FCX. So yeah, Apple left many people behind.


Apple can safely innovate forwards because they know that there is always a bunch of imitators following along behind that'll keep serving up the old approach while they move ahead with innovation.

As buyers, we need to decide whether we prefer the benefits and risks of innovation or the stability of imitation.

Regards
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#140 Drew

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:56 AM

Despite the dirty deeds Apple may have done and may still be doing, I have bought FCP X now and it is downloading. I managed to get it for 25% off thanks to the App Store being tied to my Apple ID which is tied to iTunes. The local servo has a 2 x $20 iTunes cards for $30.

It's not dirty deeds, ATJ. It's business and that's fine. FCX obviously works for many people. And if it is the groundworks for something great, they messed up the intro. If they come up with something great, all the better. Looking at Avid MC6, it's turned out well. 10 years ago, Avid was probably suffering the same ire for blowing off customers, and the shift to FCP began. No company is immune. The point is things change, to stay on top, don't piss off your core customers... unless you find a bigger market! :uwphotog:
I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Did you try it with the trial program first though? I think they rescinded the refund policy.

You make me laugh Drew :)

Download FCX... it's keyable with edge control, just like WIPE! WOOHOO!

I won't disparage the FCX crew too much though since I know of at least one person who does drop by on WP the odd occasion (sorry dude!:D)

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