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I know I suck but please help this NewB!!!!!!


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#1 Underthesea

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:29 PM

Hey all,

Went down this past weekend for the first time with my digital setup.
Apeture was all wrong and I was using a olympus c 8080 with ikelite dual tray and ds50 strobe.
Anyways i thought pics were gonna come out fine but after my dives was sorely disappointed considering i got a couple decent shots in. Downloaded Photoshop CS5 to try and fix them but having trouble and wondering if i can even fix them.
I changed the apeture from 1.7 to 0, which should help but all the pics look like the strobe produced too much light, even tho it was on TTL with a sync cable and camera was set to external flash.
Really hoping i can restore some color to these shots, or future advice is appreciated.

Attached one as an example of what im dealing with-PS all photos are like this

THanks!

Attached Images

  • P1010098.JPG


#2 Steve Williams

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 08:56 PM

Hi partner,
I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help. There isn't much to work with there. What mode were you using? Have you experimented with your camera and flash setup on land and narrowed it down to what works for you? It's hard to tell from the image you posted but it looks overexposed. Are you shooting RAW?

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#3 Cal

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 10:12 PM

hmmmm ok:

Sounds like your asking 2 questions

A) What went wrong?
B) Can they be saved?

I'll answer B first as its easier.

Firstly, were the photos shot in raw? If yes, then salvage may be possible but it depends on what you consider 'salvaged' to be. In camera raw - Drag your exposure slide bar to the left and your recovery slide bar to the right. Then play with the white balance sliders. If your getting some colour but not enough - you may have to fabricate a red colour channel to compensate for the blue (email me about this).

If the images werent shot in raw then it seems very unlikely.

Don't forget to to try a black and white conversion.

Ok as to what went wrong:

Can you please post the settings that the images were shot at? i.e. shutter speed, f stop and ISO. I could probably download the photo normally and get it myself but my laptop blew up today :)

Without knowing the meta data (settings) my guess would be that the camera used auto adjust ISO to compensate for what it assumed would be a dark image as the camera didn't register the strobe. Make sure the ISO is set to 100 or something similiarly low. Therefor, when the strobe went off t simply overexposed the image.

Did you shoot in manual mode?

Also - i'm not sure what you meant by this 'I changed the apeture from 1.7 to 0, which " ? changed the aperture to 0 where? in a program?

Cheers

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#4 Balrog

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 10:32 PM

As above I'm afraid.

First thing is to get your rig working on land in a darkish room. Apart from the exposure issues it looks to me like your strobe might not be in synch with the shutter. What distance was the shot taken at.

Start your dry test at a couple of feet from the subject in manual mode and note what exposure/strobe power works by reviewing the screen, then vary the distance and see what happens. Respect your strobe, it doesn't have the same cooling as it would underwater so one shot at a time, no more than 2 every minute on full power.

#5 bcliffe

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 04:29 AM

So checking your EXIF data f/2.8, 1/30, ISO-100 at 16 mm


The thing to note in your EXIF data is the "Exposure bias +1.7 step" Is your exposure compensation on your camera set to almost 2 stops over?



Cheers
BC

#6 Underthesea

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 10:57 AM

Thank you everyone for the replies. I was shooting in my mode/manual. I got the camera second hand so just kept the settings he had used for underwater photo as I'm new to photography in general, not familiar with terms etc...
Can anyone "dumb down" what they're asking me to find? I feel pretty bad about not knowing this info but really want to get competent with it. Any books as well that may be useful?
Thank you all so very much

#7 Panda

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 02:27 PM

To start with - Set the Shutter to 1/125 - Set the Aperture to f/8 - Set the ISO to 100

Don't know how to do that? Grab your manual and learn how.
Don't have the manual? Download it from the Olympus site.

Get back to us when you've tried those settings.

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#8 Scubamoose

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 11:42 PM

Any books as well that may be useful?


Martin Edge's - The Underwater Photographer, Fourth Edition.
All You need to know to get a good start in UW photography!

Cheers
Karel
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#9 bcliffe

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 04:27 AM

Martin Edge's - The Underwater Photographer, Fourth Edition.
All You need to know to get a good start in UW photography!

Cheers
Karel


+1000 - this is an excellent resource.

I would also suggest you get to learn your camera topside as well. Understanding exposure is common to both above and below water photography.

On YouTube maybe go through the channel "Digital Photography 1 on 1" ... there is some great stuff in there.

http://www.youtube.c.../18/o9uZAmV81xs

I would suggest starting at the earliest episode and working forward to the current episode.

Cheers
BC

#10 Giles

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 06:13 AM

A while ago with a camera probably not made anymore, I think it was a Canon point and shoot, I got some results like this. Consistently too.

It was the camera in full auto mode that made it happen underwater. It used a weird white balance as it was confused and then that made it over expose. The camera itself didn't have many settings that were able to over turn the autoness of the camera.

I am wondering if this is the case here? full auto mode ?

Also its been a while but is the 8080 capable of ttl ?
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#11 onewolf

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 10:14 AM

To start with - Set the Shutter to 1/125 - Set the Aperture to f/8 - Set the ISO to 100
...snip...


Is a point/shoot like the Olympus 8080 even capable of f8? Most point/shoot cameras have a much reduced f stop range relative to a SLR.

I agree that the Martin Edge book could provide a lot of basic 'photo' education.

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#12 Panda

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 02:04 PM

The 8080 was a very capable compact with Manual exposure, 28mm wide, RAW capture
http://www.dpreview....080wz/page2.asp
It can do f/8 (Some compacts were able to do f/11)

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#13 rwe

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 10:53 AM

Hey all,

Went down this past weekend for the first time with my digital setup.
Apeture was all wrong and I was using a olympus c 8080 with ikelite dual tray and ds50 strobe.
Anyways i thought pics were gonna come out fine but after my dives was sorely disappointed considering i got a couple decent shots in. Downloaded Photoshop CS5 to try and fix them but having trouble and wondering if i can even fix them.
I changed the apeture from 1.7 to 0, which should help but all the pics look like the strobe produced too much light, even tho it was on TTL with a sync cable and camera was set to external flash.
Really hoping i can restore some color to these shots, or future advice is appreciated.

Attached one as an example of what im dealing with-PS all photos are like this

THanks!


You can see some of my settings for the 8080 here if you go down a few replies: http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=41334.

When I was using the 8080 with a Nikonos 105 and Heinrich converter, I frequently got over-exposures because of the Nikonos slow shutoff speed but not as bad as the one you show. When shooting with a lot of ambient light, I find that I need to dial in at least -0.3 to -0.7 to prevent over-exposures. If you had a positive exposure bias, I suspect this was a major contributor to your problem. Especially, with the long shutter speed and open aperture.
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#14 Underthesea

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 05:39 AM

Thanks everyone for being so helpful with me. I used Photoshop to get the setting this was taken with. F/2.8, 1/30, +1.7, iso100, focal length 16.5MM, flash says it did not fire, compulsatory mode??
Going to take some of your advice and fix some of the settings on land and then retry the flash on land before I go diving again this weekend. I also bought that book on kindle to review.

#15 jetlife2

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 06:44 AM

Thanks everyone for being so helpful with me. I used Photoshop to get the setting this was taken with. F/2.8, 1/30, +1.7, iso100, focal length 16.5MM, flash says it did not fire, compulsatory mode??
Going to take some of your advice and fix some of the settings on land and then retry the flash on land before I go diving again this weekend. I also bought that book on kindle to review.



I use the 5060 which is the same as the 8080 but fewer Megapixels. It is really an extremely good u.w camera setup when used correctly and will keep you happy for many years. I also use 2 DS50s. I assume you have an ike housing and use the ike dual sync cord? If so your strobes are fully capable of TTL when connected in this way, simply set the strobes to TTL. My recommendation is also to fully test them out in a dark room first and verify the operation is correct. Set the camera to record RAW not jpg and you can recover almost anything with postprocessing. CS5 and Lightroom both can read the 8080 RAW format (.ORF file). The only disadvantage of RAW, is this camera takes a loooong time to write the file to card after you shoot.

There are several flash settings you need to pay attention to in order to get teh camera to drive the strobes correctly. Make sure the flash is set to Ext. only (not IN+EXT). Make sure teh flash compensation is 0.0.

The way I use this camera is to set the LCD to display the exposure reading constantly. Set the camera in manual mode. Forget the P mode it is useless underwater. This way you can see the aperture, shutter speed selected as well as the camera meter's idea of the result (it displays in stops so -1.0 is one stop under, 0.0 is its idea of perfectly exposed, +1.0 is 1 stop over, etc). Then adjust either aperture or shutter speed (I prefer to adjust shutter, ymmv, it is a function of what the shot needs, depth of field vs action, etc) and you can see immediately whether your exposure is close. Personally I try to shoot so that the camera indicates -1.0 or so...this way I know I will not blow out the highlights.

Learn the my mode process so you can save a couple of presets and call them up quickly. PS. Save one my mode for full-auto P mode with Int flash only - this lets you instantly reset the camera to "land" mode. I have this set as the last my mode setting and my U.W. mymodes are 1, 2 etc. I have one for wide angle and 2 for macro. then adjust expsoure as described above.

Take a look at my link for what can be done with this camera (pics dated March 2005 and later, earlier pics were a different rig). You will not be disappointed, you have a great rig! Good luck.

Edited by jetlife2, 23 May 2011 - 06:48 AM.


#16 jetlife2

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 08:22 AM

A few more comments

It may be stating the obvious but I will say it anyway, the main problem with the photo you showed is is not the strobe, it is the basic settings. f2.8, 1/30, +1.7 is probably about 10 stops overexposed. For this kind of scene something like f6.3, 1/200, +0.0 at ISO 100 would be in the ballpark.

Also if you are using mymode, it is a great system feature, but be aware that literally every setting can be saved and recalled. So as you change from (for example) P to mymode 1, every single setting can be different (flash setting, macro mode, exposure mode, LCD mode, type of file, white balance.....) and then you change to mymode 2 and they can all be different again.....so if you inherited this camera from someone else, you need to check every single setting stored in there. Or, something to consider, maybe do a full system reset to factory default, which will clear everything, and start from scratch, so you know for sure the way it is set.

Also, a tip for you, the camera is really slow to transfer files if you plug in a USB cable direct to the camera, because it is USB 1. It can take 10-15 minutes. I recommend take out the card from the camera and use a card reader, it will be 5x faster.

#17 Underthesea

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 10:24 AM

GREAT info jet.
Went back through my manual and purchased underwater photographers guide which was recommended on here, starting to read it already and starting to understand exactly what the he'll happened few weeks back, really sucks cause I got one really amazing photo of a moray and it looks like crap. I'm gonna set ome my modes tonight with the f iso and shutter I want then practice in the tub on my toes and around the house, ur settings are also very helpful as a guide. I have been told I'm way too much of a newbie to shoot in RAW but I also heard it gives you the most control on your pics (assuming your not an idiot like me nd your pictures are decent to begin with) if I'm shooting underwater in RaW does it take the camera a long time to be ready for a new shot or Is that only when transferring images? I want really nice shots and am willing to spend the time learning about the Photoshop cs5 and techniques so is shooting in jpeg not worth it or what?

#18 jetlife2

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Posted 23 May 2011 - 04:37 PM

GREAT info jet.
Went back through my manual and purchased underwater photographers guide which was recommended on here, starting to read it already and starting to understand exactly what the he'll happened few weeks back, really sucks cause I got one really amazing photo of a moray and it looks like crap. I'm gonna set ome my modes tonight with the f iso and shutter I want then practice in the tub on my toes and around the house, ur settings are also very helpful as a guide. I have been told I'm way too much of a newbie to shoot in RAW but I also heard it gives you the most control on your pics (assuming your not an idiot like me nd your pictures are decent to begin with) if I'm shooting underwater in RaW does it take the camera a long time to be ready for a new shot or Is that only when transferring images? I want really nice shots and am willing to spend the time learning about the Photoshop cs5 and techniques so is shooting in jpeg not worth it or what?



If you record jpg, the camera takes the RAW data and applies a white balance adjustment then compresses it into a jpg file (jpg being a compressed format). It then throws away the RAW data. If your shot is a well balanced perfectly lit scene, jpg and RAW will give similar results. But: if you had the wrong white balance adjustment or the wrong exposure or the camera jpg algorithm is not very good, you can't get back that data, it is gone. So with RAW you have more options for recovery because you have recorded exactly what the camera saw at that moment. You can apply any white balance you want, any exposure adjustment, and make a jpg your self at the end if you want. I don't know why anyone would tell you you are " too new" for RAW, it's just a file format that give you more options.

Downside? This camera will take a long time to get ready for the next shot when shooting RAW. Try it. Then try it when there is a stream of hammerheads coming right at you, you will curse into your regulator as they go past you while you wait! More recent cameras and more expensive cameras have a big memory buffer so they can take shots close together and write to the card later.

Good luck. Be patient, you have all the right gear for some great shots.

#19 Underthesea

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Posted 24 May 2011 - 08:18 AM

Also, Does anyone know why it would say that my flash did not fire compulsatory mode?