27 replies to this topic

[Drew]

Canon Cinema EOS has announced 2 new camera lines, the EOS-1D C and EOS C500 and PL mount 500PL.

The 1D C is in the 1Dx form factor but allows recording of 4k/24 in MJPEG 8bit, 1080p50/60 in H.264 and 18mp. Further enhancements include clean HDMI 8bit 422 for HDMI recorders, all while being able to record video at ISO51200. The Canon Log gamma curve is also available and retains the 12 fps 14bit 18mp capability. HD recording is in either ALL-I or H.264 codec.

The C500/PL is the bigger brother of the C300, and gains 4k recording in two formats, DCI (SMPTE 2048-1:2011 standard) or Quad-HD (SMPTE 2036-1:2009 and ITU-R BT.1769 standards) all in uncompressed RAW recording via the dual 3G-SDI outputs. Recording on the dual CF built-in slots are only in HD/2k formats

[DeanB]

I've heard a rumour ? Is it true???

Dean

[TheRealDrew]

Two announcements



LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., April 12, 2012 – Continually advancing the frontiers of digital high-resolution motion-image capture for film, television, and other industries, Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the EOS-1D C digital single-lens reflex (SLR) camera.* Delivering outstanding video performance, the compact, lightweight EOS-1D C provides video recording at 4K (4096 x 2160-pixel) or Full HD (1920 x 1080-pixel) resolution to support high-end motion picture, television production and other advanced imaging applications.

LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., April 12, 2012 – Canon Inc. is developing two digital cinematography cameras as part of its acclaimed new Cinema EOS System of professional cinematography products. Designated as the Cinema EOS C500* for use with EF-mount lenses, and the Cinema EOS C500 PL* for use with PL-mount lenses, the cameras will be capable of originating 4K (4096 x 2160-pixel) resolution digital motion imagery with uncompressed RAW output for external recording, in response to growing expectations for higher levels of imaging performance in premium Hollywood films and other production markets requiring the utmost in picture quality.

[DeanB]

I feel it's going to be a crazy year!!!

Dean

[blaisedouros]

If I were working for RED, I would be very nervous right now...

[Drew]

If I were working for RED, I would be very nervous right now...

Not really. Red Epic-X still has the advantage of 5k, 18 stops @ 60fps and the ability to go 5k 120fps. The Canon 4k/24 is pretty limiting for anything cinematic, since most progressive directors want 48fps and up.

[blaisedouros]

Not really. Red Epic-X still has the advantage of 5k, 18 stops @ 60fps and the ability to go 5k 120fps. The Canon 4k/24 is pretty limiting for anything cinematic, since most progressive directors want 48fps and up.

In this generation, I think you're absolutely right--Epic still does some things better, no question about it. However, Epic's brain alone also costs $34k, putting it in an entirely different category than the 1D-C. Who knows what the C500 will cost, of course; if it comes in at $10k less than the Epic, I would imagine that could put a significant dent in that camera's market, though.

What I would be worried about if I were at Red is that Canon (being a more widely diversified company) seems to be willing to use their development muscle to develop and iterate these cameras relatively quickly; they announced the C300 in November, and now we see the C500 comparatively soon after. How many years was the Scarlet just vaporware?

It seems to me that the digital cinema camera space is starting to get really crowded (Arri Alexa, Red, Sony, Panasonic, now Canon, probably others that I'm forgetting); with Canon's reach, I can see them taking a large chunk of that market if they continue to play their cards right.

Now what I REALLY want to see from them is a $3-4,000 EF-mount HD video-specific camera body...

Edited by blaisedouros, 12 April 2012 - 03:25 PM.

[JohnE]

It's going to be an interesting year.

FYI the Gates C300 housing accommodates the new Canon C500 as well. We are crankin' here.....

J-

[blaisedouros]

It's going to be an interesting year.

FYI the Gates C300 housing accommodates the new Canon C500 as well. We are crankin' here.....

J-

Definitely good news for you guys--congrats! It's not often camera manufacturers are nice enough to use the same architecture like that.

[Nick Hope]

It's going to be an interesting year.

FYI the Gates C300 housing accommodates the new Canon C500 as well. We are crankin' here.....

J-

Great that you're building a housing that fits both of these models.

I don't know about these Canon cameras though. I can't see that many takers for the underwater market. A number of top shooters have already gone down the RED route. The C300 seems so expensive for what it can do (no 1080-50/60p for example), and I expect the C500 is going to be top dollar too.

Are you planning a housing for the FS700 John? That camera definitely has me more interested. Features for price, it just seems like a better deal than the Canons, and I can see it taking a good chunk of the market.

Edited by Nick Hope, 13 April 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[Drew]

In this generation, I think you're absolutely right--Epic still does some things better, no question about it. However, Epic's brain alone also costs $34k, putting it in an entirely different category than the 1D-C. Who knows what the C500 will cost, of course; if it comes in at $10k less than the Epic, I would imagine that could put a significant dent in that camera's market, though.

What I would be worried about if I were at Red is that Canon (being a more widely diversified company) seems to be willing to use their development muscle to develop and iterate these cameras relatively quickly; they announced the C300 in November, and now we see the C500 comparatively soon after. How many years was the Scarlet just vaporware?

Canon and Sony were always going to come crash the party Red created. It was a matter of time. Canon came in first because they have no upper end video to protect. Plus having 4k is part of the bigger picture with Sony and their 4k TV. So they will jump in big next year.

I agree it's getting crowded and that's only good for the buyers. 4k is the new HD variance so we'll see how the market unfolds. Scarlet and the 1DC are similar except Scarlet is upgradeable to the Dragon sensor, one of the big things about Red. But then again Canon/Sony will have the workhorse reliability vs the overheating batteries/beta software of Red.

Red will always have a following because of the ability to upgrade sensors, something the big boys won't do in their design because they need the volume.

[JohnE]

Great that you're building a housing that fits both of these models.

I don't know about these Canon cameras though. I can't see that many takers for the underwater market. A number of top shooters have already one down the RED route. The C300 seems so expensive for what it can do (no 1080-50/60p for example), and I expect the C500 is going to be top dollar too.

Are you planning a housing for the FS700 John? That camera definitely has me more interested. Features for price, it just seems like a better deal than the Canons, and I can see it taking a good chunk of the market.

Nick -- what features are of particular interest? Higher frame rates? How often will you use that feature? And it has AVCHD recording format, not something attractive to broadcasters. And until it's really 4K it's of no interest to Digital Cinema. Lastly, Canon has a huge suite of lenses to support their cameras. And more coming. Plus the low light sensitivity, and those are powerful features.

J-

[CheungyDiver]

Don't forget those 4K digital recorders and recording media! Camera is only a part of the total cost.

David

[Nick Hope]

Nick -- what features are of particular interest? Higher frame rates? How often will you use that feature? And it has AVCHD recording format, not something attractive to broadcasters. And until it's really 4K it's of no interest to Digital Cinema. Lastly, Canon has a huge suite of lenses to support their cameras. And more coming. Plus the low light sensitivity, and those are powerful features.

J-

Really I want a camera that can shoot 1080-60p and has interchangable lenses, built-in ND filters and XLR inputs. Until the FS700 I haven't seen anything offering this combination at under $10k (please correct me if I'm wrong). I see upgradability to 4k as more of a bonus at the moment. I would most definitely use that high fps burst feature on the FS700 if I'd just shot some important action, such as ambush predation. The fact that it can be engaged after the event makes that a very attractive feature, as long as the control for it on housings can be quickly operated.

My situation is a little different to some others here, as I see my future in high quality web video and Blu-ray more than broadcast, but nevertheless I should probably pay more attention to the low light performance and the quality/broadcastability of the recording format. Actually I'm often tempted to just go down the GH2/GH3 or dSLR route so that I can afford 2 cameras for uw/topside shooting, redundancy and perhaps even a 2nd housing for a macro/wide combo.

Edited by Nick Hope, 13 April 2012 - 09:24 PM.

[jonny shaw]

Pretty sure Dragon will be released at NAB.

Not too sure a FF 6K+ sensor is what you really want underwater though, shitty DOF and at that resolution any mistakes are crystal clear

[DeanB]

Yep Jonny it's all down to actual 'needs' Do you really need a 'cinematic' camera ???... If you have money to throw away then fair play, buy one, I would... however most of us have to think realistically what we actually need for the work we do. If I purchased an EPIC etc like my EX1 it would be a fantastic paper weight or posey corporate shooters camera, it wouldn't guarantee 'blue chip' work or a place with a production team. I have only just 'retired' if you will my A1 and that little workhorse did me proud

I have a couple of shoots with the prestigious NHU coming up soon and once again its all 'supplied gear' that (and a expensive wedding) is why I'm not upgrading for the foreseeable future lol

Dean

Edited by DeanB, 14 April 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[CheungyDiver]

Pretty sure Dragon will be released at NAB.

Not too sure a FF 6K+ sensor is what you really want underwater though, shitty DOF and at that resolution any mistakes are crystal clear

LOL...yes full frame 6k of crud will still be 6 time HD of crud.... need perfect vis.

DOF could be solve by using EF mount or Nikon (Optitek) mount and FE lenses.

I have been modding mini-dome ports...works quite nicely with FE.

cheers

David

[Drew]

Fisheye is sooo Go Pro!

[jonny shaw]

Here you go

http://reduser.net/f...hp?77169-Dragon

[Davide DB]

You can't fault his argument:

www.eoshd.com/content/7919/a-canon-video-camera-for-the-rest-of-us-outside-hollywood

Edited by M43user, 16 April 2012 - 01:42 AM.