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Sony A77 DSLR: Will housing makers ignore these specs?!?


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#41 Drew

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 09:31 AM

I know... but just in case you start a rumor about it and get quoted! Have to cover your butt! :B):

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#42 davephdv

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 10:00 AM

Looks like the NEX-7 has pretty much the same specs crammed into a smaller camera. Might end up being a better choice for UW. The lens choices are limited for now thougj.
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#43 Drew

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 11:43 AM

Not really Dave. Remember the NEX7 is e lens mount, which has quite a limited range of lenses, using adapters to give fisheye and UWA. With the a mount adapter, it's actually pretty big! I don't think housing manufacturers will make housings with that adapter, if at all!

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#44 Phil Rudin

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 12:03 PM

Regarding the sync speed of 1/250th of a second in a $1400.00 body I wonder what camera is being used as a frame of reference. We would all like to see a camera that allows better black background for images like pool shots but Nikon D3s, Canon 1Ds1,2,3, 7D, D300/s, D-7000, Olympus E-5, Pentax K-5 arn't they all 1/250th or less. They can all be speeded up a bit by shooting in manual with hard wired (not fiber optic) strobes.

In addition rather than looking at the ISO 16000,25000+ highend results (Jeff) you may want to look at the ISO 50 results which appear as good or better than any base ISO in this price range and remember ISO 50 is half as much light as ISO 100 or at 1/250th at ISO-50 you have the same amount of light as at 1/500th at ISO-100, black is back. How many of the cameras in this price range include ISO-50.

Regarding lenses, I agree that the achilles heel of the Sony NEX system at this point in time is lens choice (which will improve in time) but the A77 has a much broader range because it shares a common A lens mount with the Sony full frame cameras and almost the entire Konica-Minolta AF mount lens line. As has been pointed out it can also pull from a large line of the most current Sigma FF and ASP-C line of lenses.

Since Tokina only builds for Canon and Nikon the 10-17 fisheye is not an option.

The problem with Tokina is much like the problem with the housing manufactures, when you are small you tend to stick with the largest pool of opportunity. Regardless of what comes next from Canon and Nikon we all know a housing will be built for it, not so much for everyone else.

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Edited by Phil Rudin, 28 August 2011 - 12:05 PM.


#45 loftus

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 01:55 PM

Regarding the sync speed of 1/250th of a second in a $1400.00 body I wonder what camera is being used as a frame of reference. We would all like to see a camera that allows better black background for images like pool shots but Nikon D3s, Canon 1Ds1,2,3, 7D, D300/s, D-7000, Olympus E-5, Pentax K-5 arn't they all 1/250th or less. They can all be speeded up a bit by shooting in manual with hard wired (not fiber optic) strobes.

Nikons synch speed is 1/320 (faster with Nikon flash systems) - not huge, but helpful in daylight in the pool. Don't get me wrong, I think the specs on these cameras are excellent and Sony has upped the ante which is great for all of us. I am pretty vested in the Nikon system and between my 14-24, 16-35, 24-70, and 70-200 lenses, throw in the 2x Nikon tele convertor, I believe this is one of the finest cadre of lenses available to cover pretty much everything I do. Then there is the Sigma 15mm and with the 16-35 are the lenses I use 90% of the time underwater. Only thing missing is a Tokina 17-28 fisheye zoom.
I am still basically a still photographer; so video, though cool, is not important to me. Next weekend I am shooting video in the pool with some help from Al Giddings, shooting higher end video cam anyway. For the type of shooting I do, high ISO performance and the cleanest possible blacks in the low to mid-ISO levels, still trumps just about everything else. But that's just me.
I think Sony is really coming on very strong, more by flooding the market with all these new camera concepts to shake things up, then anything else...
As this thread implies, it's time the housing folks start to build housings for Sony.
On the other hand, within the next few months, it's likely that both Nikon and Canon will show their hand, and it's likely the specs will be comparable.

Edited by loftus, 28 August 2011 - 02:06 PM.

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#46 Drew

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 08:41 AM

Jeff
I think only the newer Nikon have 1/320 sync (AutoFP). I know the D7000 does and the D3s doesn't.
How high is high ISO? :B):

I have to say that the shutter lag looks super fast, in the pro camera class. And I have no problem dropping any brand for a superior product that suits my needs.

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#47 loftus

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:30 AM

Jeff
I think only the newer Nikon have 1/320 sync (AutoFP). I know the D7000 does and the D3s doesn't.
How high is high ISO? :B):

I have to say that the shutter lag looks super fast, in the pro camera class. And I have no problem dropping any brand for a superior product that suits my needs.

The D700 is also only supposed to do do 1/250, but I have not found it to be a problem using my studio strobes at 1/320, rear curtain synch, especially with low and mid power range. Possibly the A77 would be fine as well.
The reviews I've read indicate that once one reaches 1600 ISO, the detail advantages of the A77 seem to disappear over the 60D and D7000. I don't use 1600 much underwater, though I have, but topside use 3200 and 6400 frequently.
Again I do think this looks like an awesome camera; maybe Sony are pushing the MP a bit for a DX camera, but someone has to raise the bar. Quite likely Nikon will use a Sony sensor in their next DX generation, and probably they will improve the noise performance as they usually seem to do.
My tolerance for switching systems is a lot higher than yours, but who knows, in a few years if Sony continues the way they have been, and they fill out their lens choices, and I like their flash system, I'd definitely look at them. Except by then I will probably own even more Nikon lenses.....
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#48 Drew

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 10:52 AM

That's why I think Nikon is more in trouble with Sony on the ascendance. Sony was playing catch up with DSP, looking at how the A900 and D3X had the same sensor but significantly different output. Canon was the noise king, then Nikon caught up and now I think Sony has joined the fray as an equal. Which then leaves Nikon without a serious video division to help with video, unlike Sony and Canon.
Sony will always come up with their products first, thus Nikon loses market firsts, unlike Canon.
Look at the LCD monitor as an example of having different divisions helping with innovation. The A77 trumps the 60D design where there isn't even an equivalent with Nikon until the D5100.
With the mirrorless offerings, Sony has the jump on Canikon for entry level DSL territory to get people to buy lenses. Canikon doesn't have mirrorless although rumors have them to be releasing those soon. I don't think the new offerings will be as "fresh" as the Sony models.

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#49 DrMark

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 02:38 PM

Since Tokina only builds for Canon and Nikon the 10-17 fisheye is not an option.

Phil Rudin


Tokina does make the 11-16mm in a-mount for the Sony Alpha, so there is hope...

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#50 rtrski

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 09:29 AM

Well, sure enough, Ike has decided not to house the A77. They will house the A65, which has almost the same specs in terms of sensor, ISO performance, but slower minimum shutter, slower flash sync speed, and slightly less extensive AF (plus no lens calibration). The rear screen actuation on the A65 is more like the preceding A55 as well (but that's an above-water thing).

I'm very curious about whether the A65 housing has altered penetrations or just slightly revised control shaft bends vs. the A55 (or maybe a backplate only swap??). Might help me speed justifying an upgrade...although I really had my heart set on the A77. But for now I'll sit it out as my A55 hasn't even been used outside of pool tests yet. Maybe someone else will decide to house it.

Initial reviews of the A77 are fairly promising with the one real quibble being higher-ISO performance. As expected the high pixel count and translucent "mirror" costs a tiny bit of performance, but at ISO1600 and below it sounds like a real winner of a camera for the price.

Current rig: Sony SLT-alpha55 in Ikelite housing, Sigma 105mm f2.8 DC Macro w/ Ike 5505.58 flat port or Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM behind UWCamStuff custom 5" mini-dome. Dual INON z240 Type IVs triggered with DS51 for TTL mimicry, or DS51 alone with home-made ringflash assy for macro.

 

Topside, unhoused: Sony SLT-alpha99, Sigma 150-500mm + 1.4TC (Saving for Sony 70-400 G2), Sigma 15mm diagonal fish, Sony 24-70mm f2.8 CZ, Tamron 180mm f2.8 Macro...all the gear and nary a clue...


#51 Phil Rudin

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:45 PM

It appears that pre-orders for the Sony A77 and NEX-7 are very strong even with the flooding issues at the Thai factories. The A77 also sports a new "kit" 16-50 zoom which is weather sealed like the camera.

It is nice to see Iklite release a housing for Pentax flagship K-5 (a very highly rated camera) but I think the demand for a Sony A77 housing would be much greater.

DEMA starts Wednesday (11-2) and I will be asking Iklite and others about how they view this new camera.


Phil Rudin

Edited by Phil Rudin, 30 October 2011 - 04:51 PM.


#52 gobiodon

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:10 AM

Not really Dave. Remember the NEX7 is e lens mount, which has quite a limited range of lenses, using adapters to give fisheye and UWA. With the a mount adapter, it's actually pretty big! I don't think housing manufacturers will make housings with that adapter, if at all!


The fisheye add-on lens is designed for the 16mm prime that is a pancake lens. The two together is 53mm in length (63mm including the shade), which is smaller than the 18-55mm kit zoom lens. I think all manufacturers offering housing for nex system has proper port for this combination. I've just checked aquaticathough:
http://www.aquatica....s_dslr_an5.html

I've tested this fisheye only above water during my holiday and I'm much impressed by its quality, especially considering its prize.
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#53 rtrski

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:17 PM

It appears that pre-orders for the Sony A77 and NEX-7 are very strong even with the flooding issues at the Thai factories. The A77 also sports a new "kit" 16-50 zoom which is weather sealed like the camera.

It is nice to see Iklite release a housing for Pentax flagship K-5 (a very highly rated camera) but I think the demand for a Sony A77 housing would be much greater.

DEMA starts Wednesday (11-2) and I will be asking Iklite and others about how they view this new camera.


Phil Rudin


Phil: Check their website first. They already show "we will not be offering a housing for this camera". Not sure if you can get them to reconsider. But I'm definitely buying an a77...although probably given supply problems and personal cashflow not until next year. Even if it gets relegated to above water use while the a55 keeps getting used under.

Current rig: Sony SLT-alpha55 in Ikelite housing, Sigma 105mm f2.8 DC Macro w/ Ike 5505.58 flat port or Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM behind UWCamStuff custom 5" mini-dome. Dual INON z240 Type IVs triggered with DS51 for TTL mimicry, or DS51 alone with home-made ringflash assy for macro.

 

Topside, unhoused: Sony SLT-alpha99, Sigma 150-500mm + 1.4TC (Saving for Sony 70-400 G2), Sigma 15mm diagonal fish, Sony 24-70mm f2.8 CZ, Tamron 180mm f2.8 Macro...all the gear and nary a clue...


#54 Phil Rudin

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:22 PM

Don't think I said that I was going to try get them to change their minds, just that I would be interested to know how they go about making the choice.

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#55 DrMark

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:07 PM

Phil: Check their website first. They already show "we will not be offering a housing for this camera". Not sure if you can get them to reconsider. But I'm definitely buying an a77...although probably given supply problems and personal cashflow not until next year. Even if it gets relegated to above water use while the a55 keeps getting used under.


I just now looked at the Ikelite web site, and I didn't see anything about not offering a housing for the a77. It isn't even listed yet on the Sony DSLR page as a model. Where on the web site did you see this? I hope you are wrong because I want to get an a77, and I already have two Ikelite strobes.

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#56 bvanant

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:13 PM

I just now looked at the Ikelite web site, and I didn't see anything about not offering a housing for the a77. It isn't even listed yet on the Sony DSLR page as a model. Where on the web site did you see this? I hope you are wrong because I want to get an a77, and I already have two Ikelite strobes.

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#57 rtrski

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 02:24 PM

Yep, that's where I saw it too. And their news says they'll have an a65 housing ready but didn't mention the A77, which is another bad sign although not in itself final proof. I'd say the "we will not" on the Sony page is the nail in the coffin.

I'm still tempted to ask if the a65 housing is just a new back and maybe a control bend on the a55, and whether as a result they might be able to do a "partial refurb" for a55 housing owners.

Current rig: Sony SLT-alpha55 in Ikelite housing, Sigma 105mm f2.8 DC Macro w/ Ike 5505.58 flat port or Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM behind UWCamStuff custom 5" mini-dome. Dual INON z240 Type IVs triggered with DS51 for TTL mimicry, or DS51 alone with home-made ringflash assy for macro.

 

Topside, unhoused: Sony SLT-alpha99, Sigma 150-500mm + 1.4TC (Saving for Sony 70-400 G2), Sigma 15mm diagonal fish, Sony 24-70mm f2.8 CZ, Tamron 180mm f2.8 Macro...all the gear and nary a clue...


#58 DrMark

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:32 AM

http://www.ikelite.c...amsonchart.html
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Well darn. It wasn't there when I looked yesterday (perhaps I was looking at a browser cached copy of the page). Ikelite has decided to skip a lot of new and potentially popular cameras (NEX line, A77, Panasonic GH2) recently. I wonder if they are having financial problems?

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#59 rtrski

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:26 AM

I didn't take it as that. I think it's more that there are more and more cameras coming out, faster and faster (with the proliferation of mirroless 'tweeners'), and they can only do so much.

Aquatica and others have already embraced NEX pretty strongly....

Current rig: Sony SLT-alpha55 in Ikelite housing, Sigma 105mm f2.8 DC Macro w/ Ike 5505.58 flat port or Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 DC HSM behind UWCamStuff custom 5" mini-dome. Dual INON z240 Type IVs triggered with DS51 for TTL mimicry, or DS51 alone with home-made ringflash assy for macro.

 

Topside, unhoused: Sony SLT-alpha99, Sigma 150-500mm + 1.4TC (Saving for Sony 70-400 G2), Sigma 15mm diagonal fish, Sony 24-70mm f2.8 CZ, Tamron 180mm f2.8 Macro...all the gear and nary a clue...


#60 derway

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:28 PM

Definitely not financial problems. They had the best year ever, in 2010. I think they are too busy, grinding out the mainstream cameras, to fool with mirrorless.

Too bad for them and for me though!
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