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Choosing new camera (NOT DSLR)


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#1 eXeC-

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 01:02 AM

Hello,

I would really appreciate if you could help me choose a new camera.
My brother managed to destroy 2 Canon cameras i had.. so now.. 2 underwater casings are useless.. but they were very old models
a570is

Now i want a new camera to be used both for land and underwater... can anyone please help me in choosing the right camera.

I haven't been into the market in a long time and feel kinda lost with all those new gadgets!
I wish it to be budget limited < $500 ...

Can anyone tell me if i should get the Canon G12 and it's casing ? it looks suitable for its price.. but dunno if there is any other better models out there..


help plz :D


regards

#2 TheRealDrew

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:44 AM

There are a few new cameras that have been released by Canon and Nikon in the last few weeks. None of them are on the market right now, so I I cannot say anything about the performance of the cameras (or what you need in a camera), but the Canon S100, the Nikon CoolPix 7100 and the Nikon AW100 are all interesting choices.

The Canon S100 is an updated model of the S95, a small camera that has nice results, pocket sized and thin. I have shot some on the S95 and have seen what friends and family members have shot and it does real well. RAW, HD Video of various flavors but no viewfinder and certain other things. But for something to throw in the pocket and get good shots.

The 7100 looks like what Canon should be doing with the G series. Has alot of features, around the size of a G12, 20-200mm lens, RAW, HD Movies and the rest.

The AW100 is one of those "tough cams" that can be dropped 6 feet, waterproof to 30 feet or so, etc. Unlike the other two (and like all the tough cams) no RAW shooting.

All claim to have faster speeds, better image quality, etc, but until tests come out, never know for sure.

Keep in mind that all of these will be a nice jump up from the a570is in every way, lens range, features and the rest, so you should be happy with the choices. For instance the A570IS did not shoot RAW and two out of the three new ones shoot RAW, all shoot video, etc. Give a good look at the specs of those and keep on eye on when they are available to try them. The AW100 I think is the earliest one coming out, may be out as I type, the others a bit later. I think the S100 is early November.

I have all these on my serious to look at list for their various features and when/where they will be fitting in.

#3 eXeC-

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:54 AM

woooo :) thnx a lot !

i will check in to these 3 cameras! the one that i prefer, based on what you wrote, is the 7100!
i will definetly look into that one.

I'll be ordering 1 camera in a good price soon, get the underwater case immediately.. i just hope i get one cheap any one of them

and then after... ill get a strobe..
i'm no expert photographer.. but just like the facts having as much options i can use.. for instance the 570is (when using the cracked firmware) allowed for RAW and some other manual settings...

i like to play with the manual settings.. looking for that as a feature in any camera i'm getting.. + would want to save costs by having the opportunity to take fish eye angle pics without having to buy a separate fish eye lens...


thnx :) i'll research a bit more based on what you guys told me

if anyone has any suggestion.. would be great :)

budget being around $700 for both camera and casing.. don't wanna go pro.. just beautiful underwater pics :D

#4 Garrethe

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:52 AM

I'm in the same boat as the OP looking for a setup and just....comfused. I see alot of mention of RAW and don't understand why it is important. (and just for the record I did do a search and didnt see this addressed anywhere) I also want a camera that can shoot video.

#5 tie

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 10:31 AM

I'm in the same boat as the OP looking for a setup and just....comfused. I see alot of mention of RAW and don't understand why it is important. (and just for the record I did do a search and didnt see this addressed anywhere) I also want a camera that can shoot video.


Hi Garrethe, I don't have time right now, but try googling it:
http://www.google.co...mera underwater
It is also useful above water, but much more important below water because it lets you fix white balance after the fact (so the colors look good!).

#6 eXeC-

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 01:06 PM

the raw thing is just a + not very much needed for me...
please let us know what setup you decide on :D

#7 Robographer

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 06:20 AM

I would also go for the Canon. RAW shooting gives you more possibilities to edit but it is not (always) necessary when you shoot with good light. At the moment I get quite nice effect using a LED torch and partially light the subject and shoot without flash.
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#8 derway

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 09:35 PM

The problem with the canon G series has always been their absolute class lagging autofocus and shutter lag.

This is why we all have at least a slim hope that the p7100 will finally step up and perform well, in this area.

The best place to look and compare AF shutter lags is imaging resource:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/

Traditionally, panasonic and sony spank the big 3 or 4 camera makers, when it comes to fast contrast detect autofocus with live view on.

Pretty much that is still true. Probably the best compact camera for UW today is the panasonic lx5, with 3 housings available at least.

Here is a nice report by one of our favorite vendors that support this site, reef photo, on the best p&s cams today:

http://www.reefphoto.com/kb.php?id=28
Don Erway
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nikon n90s/ikelite housing/twin SS-200 canon G2/ikelite/DS-50/optical TTL slave
sony V3/ikelite/DS-51/Heinrich DA2 slave

#9 eXeC-

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 01:52 AM

hmmm G series doesn't seem to be a good option :laugh:

What i like abt the Canon series are that they provide underwater casings at affordable prices for their models.
Other brands for UW casings are quite expensive!

still investigation a good combo camera + casing at an affordable price - total around $600 would be great :)

#10 johnjvv

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 04:07 AM

hmmm G series doesn't seem to be a good option :laugh:

What i like abt the Canon series are that they provide underwater casings at affordable prices for their models.
Other brands for UW casings are quite expensive!

still investigation a good combo camera + casing at an affordable price - total around $600 would be great :)


The only thing you need to remember is that there are no propper lens fittings that you can attach to Canon housings. If you spend a little more on other brand housings you will be able to get a system that you can expand over time by adding things such as wide angle or macro lenses.

#11 eXeC-

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 06:01 AM

totally agree with you Johnjvv ...

but the thing is... i want to minimize my investments in the future on that.. so looking to get a camera that just provide options for Wide angle or Fish eye modes in their settings...

i am trying to minimize my spending on the set as i do not dive that often...
it's just a must for me to be able to dive though.. i won't dive without a cam...

#12 johnjvv

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:27 AM

totally agree with you Johnjvv ...

but the thing is... i want to minimize my investments in the future on that.. so looking to get a camera that just provide options for Wide angle or Fish eye modes in their settings...

i am trying to minimize my spending on the set as i do not dive that often...
it's just a must for me to be able to dive though.. i won't dive without a cam...


On the G11 your widest is 28mm and then due to refraction it will actually be higher than that, so it is quite far away from a fish eye. I used a G11 before and did not feel that I could photograph wide enough. As I had the Canon housing, the only lens I could add on was a the fantasea bigeye lens and I was very disapointed with the clarity of the images, and on top of this there was always flaring in the corners and the only way to get rid of it was to zoom in which defeats the purpose. Secondly you did not mention that you are interested in macro, however the for realy close pictures the macro setting only works when the it is zoomed out all the way, ie 28mm...keeping in mind that with slr cameras people tend to use 50 or 105 mm...meaning that you will capture everything around small subjects.

However since you are not going to use it that frequently I am sure you will enjoy the camera but just set your expectations correctly as you are not going to get very wide or fisheye with a G11 in the Canon housing.

PS...i will sell you my bigeye lens if you are interested!! :laugh:

#13 eXeC-

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:51 AM

haha ok! if i do go for the G11 i'll get the lens :laugh:

But for the moment... i'm still reading! all those models and soooooo much differences between them ...

it's hard choosing cam + casing !

#14 TomR1

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 06:07 PM

The best way to save money is to purchase a plastic housing from the camera manufacturer. I believe this limits you to Canon or Olympus. Possibly Nikon is now making housings but I haven't seen them.

The Ikelite housings are more expensive and DON'T support a fibreoptic connection for the strobe. You'll find that the INON s-2000 is a very powerful strobe for the price and the fibreoptic connection is bulletproof.

The fastes way to get wide angle on a compact is an INON wet lens. (I have one used I'd sell). That lets out the Canon G series housings as they don't have the proper port. You acn also use the INON closeup diopter that also requires a round port.

What is left is the Olympus xz-1.

Sorry to make it simple.


Regards,


PS: RAW is required. This doesn't mean you can't get some good, even great, shots with jpg but many more are available after RAW processing.

#15 eXeC-

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:20 AM

Thanks a lot for all that info!!

That really helped!!! i'll start looking into those brands.. and go on that path :laugh:
Thanks a lot TomR1

#16 derway

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:27 AM

The ikelite housings are not that much more expensive. I would wait for reviews on the nikon p7100, it looks awesome.

Ikelite made a housing for the p7000, so likely will continue. The ikelite housings are worth every extra penny. They are much more robust and bullet proof than the flimsy manufactureres housings. They provide a way to mount addon lenses, and they provide built in conversion circuitry to make the external strobes work in full ttl mode. This works much better than fiber optic slaves in my experience.
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#17 TomR1

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 12:26 PM

I gotta disagree derway, really disagree.

The electrical connections to Ilelite strobes are a serious assembly and maintenance problem. In two years i sent back two cables for maintenance. In addition, even a teaspoon of water will wipe out the ttl circuitry in the Ikelite housing. I had this happen twice although, thankfully, the d-200 and 105VR were not affected. Finally the latches that secure the por to the housing is an area where leaks often occur, admittedly due to user error. Yes the plastic in the Ike housings is thiker and probably would survive a drop for 4 stories better but so what?

The Ikelite DS-51 does not have either the power or recycling capability of an Inon S-2000, about the same size and the Ds-160 is much larger and expensive than the Inon z-240. Now if you were housing a dSLR and didn't want to pay the horrendous price I paid for a Seatool housing, the Ikes work just fine and the color temperature of the Ikelite strobes seems more plesant.

However, I see ZERO advantage for an Ikelite over an Olympus housing. I have had 2 5050 and a 5060 housing and neither had any problem or any maintenance.

Finally the screw-on capability of the Olympus housings allow Inon wide and macro wet lenses to be used easily.

#18 derway

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 02:53 PM

Hmm, I've been using the ike sync cords on 4 different housings, with 5-6 different strobes, for almost 20 years, and never had a problem.

The recycling speed of the s-2000 is irrelevant, since you are forced to wait for the in camera flash to recharge!

The advantage of wired strobes over optical triggers are huge, in my mind. You don't have all that heat, and delay for recharging the inboard flash!

The camera's battery lasts all day, instead of one dive.
Don Erway
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#19 TomR1

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 03:01 PM

Derway-

What you say is true. However, my 5050 and 5060 batteries lasted 3 dives anyway.

Reasonable people disagree.

Regards,

#20 Mamel

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 12:31 AM

What is left is the Olympus xz-1.


Go with the XZ-1, quite compact, bright lens, relatively fast .. and the oly housing is top quality. It has built-in 67mm screw port for wet lens - you can also use the internal flash (with several limitation). If you prefer sync cord, you can also get ike housing for this camera.
The downside is no flash for supermacro and no mymode like SP-350.
I bought this camera for my 12 years old daughter, you can see what she can produce with this camera here
Melati Luv Diving
there's an article about her and her XZ-1 in Divelog australasia September edition, page 30.