Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Canon XF 100 or DSLR?


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 bvanant

bvanant

    Giant Squid

  • Team Wetpixel
  • 1533 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Los Angeles (more or less)
  • Interests:Science, photography, travel

Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:44 PM

Got my metrics and imperials confused. ;)

Regards
Peter

At least you didn't crash it into mars.

Bill

Bill
Canon 7d, Nauticam, Lots of glass, Olympus OMD-EM5, Nauticam, 60 macro, 45 macro, 8 mm fisheye, Inon, S&S, Athena Strobes plus lots of fiddly bits.
www.blueviews.net


#22 wagsy

wagsy

    Blue Whale

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns, Queensland.
  • Interests:Sewing and Knitting......no diving of course :-)

Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

Hey does the Canon XF100 have Moire problems like a DSLR?
Might try to get my hands on one and test out.

The DSLR puts out great video quality when static but once you start moving it's hopeless with horizontal/vertical lines.
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos www.hdvunderwater.com | www.flykam.com.au | www.reeftorainforest.com.au

#23 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 709 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:06 PM

Hey does the Canon XF100 have Moire problems like a DSLR?
Might try to get my hands on one and test out.

The DSLR puts out great video quality when static but once you start moving it's hopeless with horizontal/vertical lines.


I have never seen a moire problem in the 20 hours of footage that I've shot both underwater and above.

The XF100 is a great video camera. Quality is as good as much larger models but in a travel-friendly size.

The other advantages over DSLR is depth-of-field and, more due to the housing, stability, especially in the vertical plane.

The color space (422) gives a lot of depth and latitude. And the 4 WB modes allows you to preset 3 fixed settings and then step through them underwater. I've not done a MWB underwater for months because I've found that one of the 4 settings is really close enough to get footage that can be tweaked in post. Often no tweaking required

IMHO, the XF100 the optimal UW camcorder for dive travel video in the market today.

I use the carbon-fibre Takla Makan housing from BS Kinetics. Access to every required camera setting through magnetic electronic push-buttons. Acryllic dome port for the Canon WA 0.8 adapter and flat glass port with a slip-on 10X wet macro lens for extreme macro.

Regards
Peter

#24 wagsy

wagsy

    Blue Whale

  • Senior Moderator
  • 3845 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cairns, Queensland.
  • Interests:Sewing and Knitting......no diving of course :-)

Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:18 PM

Hey Peter

Cheers for that, I know a guy in town with one so might see if I can shoot some venetian blinds and fences etc.

Yes I was reading your posts about you underwater setup. :D
No rear viewfinder though by the looks just LCD?

I really need a up top camera to go with the DSLR, could be the one.
Amphibico Phenom & EVO PRO & Navigator 900
Share Your Underwater Videos www.hdvunderwater.com | www.flykam.com.au | www.reeftorainforest.com.au

#25 Nick Hope

Nick Hope

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thailand

Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:36 PM

I have read that the Panasonic GH2 suffers fewer moire problems then the Canon dSLRs. Another option perhaps?

#26 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

The XF100/305 have moire issues on very fine patterns but most can be solved with turning the sharpness down to minimum. It's life with bayer CMOS video! :D

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#27 Davide DB

Davide DB

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rome, Italy

Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:59 AM

I have read that the Panasonic GH2 suffers fewer moire problems then the Canon dSLRs. Another option perhaps?


Nearly zero respect to Canon models and very small setup.

I cannot show you uw footage of my GH2 because my Nauticam Housing is in backorder in HK Posted Image

Bye

PS
I should add a little disclaimer for my nickname :lol:
Disclaimer: Your new gear will not make you produce any better art than you already do.
https://vimeo.com/bocio/

#28 SimonSpear

SimonSpear

    Orca

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1390 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:43 AM

I had terrible issues with moire on an EX1 last year (topside) that made the footage unusable, so it can happen on cameras that you wouldn't expect to see it on if all the wrong dominos fall into place. Having said that there really shouldn't be a moire issue with something like a XF100/105 when comparing it to a HDSLR. The XF range are very robust video cameras and as a run and gun camera or when you just need to pick something up without the hassle of a HDSLR then they would probably compliment a 7D really well. I've cut in footage from 7D's with footage from EX1's, EX3's and XF305's and you can normally make all the footage from those cameras look close enough to get away with it.

Also remember that lots of moire and aliasing issues can also be created while editing with the wrong settings etc, so it is best to always make sure that there is nothing causing it there too.

#29 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 709 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:47 AM

No rear viewfinder though by the looks just LCD?

I really need a up top camera to go with the DSLR, could be the one.


Hi Wagsy,

Yes, the Takla Makan just has a 4x3" LED monitor on the rear face at an angle convenient for most shooting situations. No viewfinder. BS Kinetics minimise holes in the housing to reduce leak risk. Just two holes, the port and the large mid-ship join of the front and back half.

I bought two of the XF100s, one for the housing and one with a shotgun mic for up-top video. The housing stays closed all day (up to 4 dives) to minimise moisture and leak risk.

Regards
Peter

#30 Nick Hope

Nick Hope

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thailand

Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:05 PM

Nearly zero respect to Canon models and very small setup.

I cannot show you uw footage of my GH2 because my Nauticam Housing is in backorder in HK Posted Image


Looking forward to your report and footage when it arrives!

To me, it looks like the controls on the Nauticam GH2 housing might be less "friendly" to use for video than the "piano keys" on housings such as their 7D housing. That's just my impression from seeing the pics.

Did you hack your GH2 firmware for higher bitrate?

#31 Davide DB

Davide DB

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rome, Italy

Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:55 AM

Looking forward to your report and footage when it arrives!

To me, it looks like the controls on the Nauticam GH2 housing might be less "friendly" to use for video than the "piano keys" on housings such as their 7D housing. That's just my impression from seeing the pics.


Yes but it depends on the camera. Mirrorless are nearly half of the size of a 7d so I guess would be a matter of nanotech building a "piano keys" like the 7D. I tried a couple of times a Nauticam housing for Oly EPL and controls were very accurate also at 70 meters.
I hope so also on the GH2 Housing :lol:

Did you hack your GH2 firmware for higher bitrate?


Yep, I'm using one of the latest Driftwood Quantum at 100Mbps and it rocks.
The latest fashion is having INTRA settings. All the most beautiful patches/settings have GOP1 all INTRA.
Last week also the new Panasonic 1.1 firmware update was reverse engineered. It brings several improvements like faster AF and 25p and 30p.

As I have some spare time I would like to test the new LPowell Flow-Motion 1.1 patch/settings. While it's not INTRA, It's aimed having a smoother rendering of movements like moving objects and pannings. Here some characteristics:


  • 100Mbps AVCHD in 24H 1080p24 and SH 720p50/60 at 8-10 keyframes/sec.
  • 75Mbps AVCHD in HBR 1080p25/30 and FSH 1080i50/60 at 8-10 keyframes/sec.
  • 50Mbps AVCHD in 24L 1080p24, FH 1080i50/60, and H 720p50/60 video modes
  • 100Mbps MJPEG 1080p Patch maintains high bitrates regardless of light levels.
  • Full support for all NTSC and PAL video modes.
  • In-camera playback of all AVCHD video files. (MJPEG HD videos not playable in-camera.)
  • 4GB AVCHD file-spanning in all video modes with 95MB/sec UHS-1 SD cards.
  • File-spanning in 24L, FH, and H modes supported on all Class 10 SD cards.
  • ETC zoom mode supported in 24H, 24L, FH, and H modes.
  • 80% Slo-mo 24H video mode with ETC and file spanning in 24L mode.
  • Combines optimal I-frame size with compact, 3-frame GOP file size (GOP-6 in 720p modes).
  • Customized Scaling Tables produce P and B-frames that match I-frame quality.


Here the discussion:

http://www.personal-...-25p-support/p1

Sorry for the OT.

Bye
Disclaimer: Your new gear will not make you produce any better art than you already do.
https://vimeo.com/bocio/

#32 Nick Hope

Nick Hope

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thailand

Posted 23 February 2012 - 06:59 PM

By INTRA you mean intra-frame compression, as opposed to long GOP/temporal compression? MJPEG is that, isn't it? Or does it mean something else?

Edited by Nick Hope, 23 February 2012 - 06:59 PM.


#33 Davide DB

Davide DB

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rome, Italy

Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:55 AM

By INTRA you mean intra-frame compression, as opposed to long GOP/temporal compression? MJPEG is that, isn't it? Or does it mean something else?


Yes, they tweaked the AVCHD codec to produce only I-Frame GOP1 stream that works like a MJPEG giving incredible images.

Give a look here some frame grab:

http://www.personal-...m-x-settings/p1
Disclaimer: Your new gear will not make you produce any better art than you already do.
https://vimeo.com/bocio/

#34 Nick Hope

Nick Hope

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thailand

Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:21 PM

Ah, so AVC Intra is AVC with only spatial compression and no temporal compression. Got it.

What lenses do you plan on using with your GH2 underwater?

#35 Davide DB

Davide DB

    Manta Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 439 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Rome, Italy

Posted 26 February 2012 - 02:54 AM

Ah, so AVC Intra is AVC with only spatial compression and no temporal compression. Got it.



Yes, here you can read a nice wrap-up on the GH2 Hacking: http://www.personal-...7#Comment_37877

What lenses do you plan on using with your GH2 underwater?


Nauticam has several ports on their M43 line and unfortunately their ports are made for the official lens:

http://www.nauticam....ctor/index.html

I chose the Lumix 8mm fisheye (m43 crop factor is X2 so I'll have a 16mm). Reviews says it's a good lens. I would have chosen the Lumix 7-14mm zoom but it's out of my budget (it costs two times the 8mm). Moreover while it's not a fast lens (F4) is quite soft wide open.

Would be nice trying the new fast M43 Olympus 12mm F2 (so 24mm). I should ask to Nauticam if one of their ports is compatible.

http://www.lenstip.c...troduction.html

I do mostly tech dives so it's important to me having a compact setup. I hope the GH2 will bear with low light depth. I'll give a try with the mjpeg settings.

Posted Image

Bye

Edited by M43user, 26 February 2012 - 03:14 AM.

Disclaimer: Your new gear will not make you produce any better art than you already do.
https://vimeo.com/bocio/

#36 Nick Hope

Nick Hope

    Sperm Whale

  • Industry
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1979 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Thailand

Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:44 AM

Thanks for all the info Davide. Do you know much about those macro lens options for the GH2 from the nauticam page you linked to? I'm looking for a future high-quality rig for Lembeh etc. without dishing out $$$ for a Scarlet. Some zoom would be nice.