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Olympus OMD E-M5


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#1 Rv

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:01 PM

Hello,
why 45 meters and not 60 meters for Olympus new housings ? UFL-2 strobe is made for 60 meters. It would be nice that Olympus housings doesn't limit selections of dives spots in France.

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#2 Phil Rudin

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:11 AM

The Olympus DSLR housings (last was for E-620) were rated to 60 meters and the strobe was made to include those housings. Olympus has made it clear that their target market for Pen/OM-D housings is recreational divers and the recreational dive limit of 40 meters. Several of us have dived the Pen housings past 50 meters without problems. For tech divers I think Olympus will leave the market to others who will build more robust (and more expensive) housings for the E-M5 camera.

Phil Rudin

#3 Bubblke7

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:13 AM

I'm waiting for this EM-5 so bad(giving up NEX system), hopefully the housing will be out as soon as possible!
I never did shot with any Olympus before, but aim this one for underwater photography, since it has the faster auto focus,
hope it work good in low light condition! :lol:

#4 CCL

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 06:41 PM

the recreational dive limit of 40 meters. Several of us have dived the Pen housings past 50 meters without problems. For tech divers I think Olympus will leave the market to others who will build more robust (and more expensive) housings for the E-M5 camera.

Phil Rudin


As you probably know already CMAS and PADI have somewhat different conceptions of diving...
40m is the limit for recreational divers according to PADI, NAUI and SSI, but not for CMAS. if you are CMAS 3* you can dive down to 60m with deco stops and this is very useful (in Europe among other places) as there are many deep wrecks (in the Mediterranean).
So your explanation is valid in your context but not everywhere. 60m would make a lot of sense from my point of view and there are a lot of divers in Europe willing to pay extra (well, if this extra remains reasonable) to get housings certified to 60m. So it is a pity that Oly did not go back to the specs they used to have for their SLRs. After all, the E-M5 can be seen in many ways as the replacement of the E4xx, E5xx and E6xx...

#5 Phil Rudin

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:22 AM

As you probably know already CMAS and PADI have somewhat different conceptions of diving...
40m is the limit for recreational divers according to PADI, NAUI and SSI, but not for CMAS. if you are CMAS 3* you can dive down to 60m with deco stops and this is very useful (in Europe among other places) as there are many deep wrecks (in the Mediterranean).
So your explanation is valid in your context but not everywhere. 60m would make a lot of sense from my point of view and there are a lot of divers in Europe willing to pay extra (well, if this extra remains reasonable) to get housings certified to 60m. So it is a pity that Oly did not go back to the specs they used to have for their SLRs. After all, the E-M5 can be seen in many ways as the replacement of the E4xx, E5xx and E6xx...



I think we would both agree that their is nothing unique about CMAS or Meriterranean diving in that almost all of these dive training agencies have advanced courses for diveing beyond 40 and even 60 meters. Also diving beyond 40 meters is done all over the world so I am sure others outside of Europe will be looking for a housing that will go beyond 45 meters for the E-M5 camera.

The issue is Olympus approach to marketing. With the Olympus DSLR housing systems you simply have a higher price point for the equipment, Housings, ports, lenses and camera bodies were for most systems more expensive and offer a higher end housing.

The 40 and 45 meter housings have been designed to sell at a much lower total system price point. Olympus is aware that after market housing makers will provide more highend options and that is not the market they want to target. As a result Olympus has sold far more of the entry level systems than they ever did with the DSLR systems. Diving style and location has nothing to do with Olympus marketing approach, for them it just seems to be good business. Olympus is the only camera maker in the housing business that goes beyond the consumer P&S type cameras and they seem to have a good grasp of their target market which does not seem to include Tec divers.

Regardless of what housing one may wish to select the E-M5 looks like a camera which will be well suited to a wide range of underwater photographers. Many Pen users who have already invested in the wide range of Olympus and Panasonic M43 lenses will want to upgrade. I think the camera will also appeal to those looking for excellent image quality, speed and lens choice in a very small system.

Phil Rudin

#6 CCL

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:05 PM

[quote name='Phil Rudin' date='Feb 27 2012, 12:22 AM' post='302843']
Phil,

I was simply reacting to your definition of recreational diver (you mentioned specifically that recreational diving stops at 40m) as I found it not applicable to Europe where a lot of divers are CMAS and for CMAS recreational diving oes to 60m. It does not imply that diving is different in Europe or better, it is just a fact.

And for sure if you have been diving in the Mediterranean you could see that they dive deeper than in most PADI dive shops: a bigger percentage of divers go for CMAS 3* in Europe versus divers going for TEC courses I believe. Try to dive around Marseille next time you are in France :lol:

I am not specialized in structure and material but I have a reasonable understanding of it and I don't think that it would take much to go from 45m to 60m for a housing. It is a pity that Oly did not go for it. They give up a share of the market that would have been potentially theirs.

But for sure at the end of the day Oly marketing can decide whatever they want. They have been proven right a few times, and wrong a few times too! I hope that the E-M5 will prove them right this time as they badly need it and I like them!

Chris

#7 derway

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:07 AM

Assuming they designed it for twice the rated depth, pushing it to 60m should not be a problem. As long as you have insurance... :lol:
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#8 ktwse

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:18 PM

I was simply reacting to your definition of recreational diver (you mentioned specifically that recreational diving stops at 40m) as I found it not applicable to Europe where a lot of divers are CMAS and for CMAS recreational diving oes to 60m. It does not imply that diving is different in Europe or better, it is just a fact.


You yourself wrote that "if you are CMAS 3* you can dive down to 60m with deco stops". The very definition of recreational diving is that it is no decompression. If you add deco stops you are doing tech diving. Besides, while CMAS is the major organization in some European countries, I'd say that a combination of PADI and strictly technical organizations is more common.

50m+ wreck divers is a minority, a niche. For Olympus to cater specifically to this group wouldn't make sense. As Phil mentioned, a lot of divers take these housings far deeper than their ratings so they should be able to handle it. My guess is that Oly simply doesn't want to guarantee it in case something should go wrong.

Tom

#9 Rv

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:37 AM

You yourself wrote that "if you are CMAS 3* you can dive down to 60m with deco stops". The very definition of recreational diving is that it is no decompression. If you add deco stops you are doing tech diving. Besides, while CMAS is the major organization in some European countries, I'd say that a combination of PADI and strictly technical organizations is more common.

50m+ wreck divers is a minority, a niche. For Olympus to cater specifically to this group wouldn't make sense. As Phil mentioned, a lot of divers take these housings far deeper than their ratings so they should be able to handle it. My guess is that Oly simply doesn't want to guarantee it in case something should go wrong.

Tom


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#10 Rv

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:46 AM

I don't think it is difficult or very expensive for Olympus to have housings rated for 60 meters. It looks like Fantasea or sea and Sea are making olympus underwater products and they both make "60 meters" products. It would be fine to have a 60 meters Olympus housing for E-M5 even if Nauticam make a "100 meters" housing. I hope Mr Olympus is reading this forum...

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#11 davephdv

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:04 PM

Cost and liability.

Most divers don't take cameras below 130. That is Olympuses target consumer.


Cheaper to make a camera with a shallower depth rating.

The guys going deeper are much fewer in number and much more likely to spend money on higher end housings.

In essence, they can get 80% of the market with a housing cheaper than anyone else.
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#12 Deep6

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:20 PM

Cost and liability.

Most divers don't take cameras below 130. That is Olympuses target consumer.


Cheaper to make a camera with a shallower depth rating.

The guys going deeper are much fewer in number and much more likely to spend money on higher end housings.

In essence, they can get 80% of the market with a housing cheaper than anyone else.

Yes siree, the old cost benefit balance.
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#13 CCL

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:10 PM

The very definition of recreational diving is that it is no decompression. If you add deco stops you are doing tech diving. Besides, while CMAS is the major organization in some European countries, I'd say that a combination of PADI and strictly technical organizations is more common.



Tom, you wrote that "The very definition of recreational diving is that it is no decompression". And this definition is by whom? By PADI, NAUI and SSI, yes, by CMAS, no. Even CMAS 2* do deco dives FYI (down to 40m).

This is my very point: different places, different concepts! And in Europe recreational diving is down to 60m with deco. It is different in the US and in many other places but maybe you can open up a little bit and understand that from a European point of view not making the housing of the E-M5 capable of 60m is a missed opportunity.

And if you want to talk about divers with PADI + TEC trainings to stay strictly in a US environment then it is the same anyway: there are more and more persons going for TEC courses if I can trust what I see (more and more training agencies and more and more dive shops proposing PADI + TEC) so it means that more and more divers are getting qualifications to go beyond 45m and therefore will regret that the Oly housing stops at 45m and will buy from someone else.

#14 ktwse

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:49 AM

Tom, you wrote that "The very definition of recreational diving is that it is no decompression". And this definition is by whom? By PADI, NAUI and SSI, yes, by CMAS, no. Even CMAS 2* do deco dives FYI (down to 40m).


That definition is actually by most agencies, including both IANTD and GUE, both of which I have training with.

In essence, since we all dive for fun, everything we do is "recreational" in a sense, but when you look at the Rec vs Tech distinction, then deco - and to a lesser extent - overhead environments is what makes the difference.

This is my very point: different places, different concepts! And in Europe recreational diving is down to 60m with deco. It is different in the US and in many other places but maybe you can open up a little bit and understand that from a European point of view not making the housing of the E-M5 capable of 60m is a missed opportunity.

And if you want to talk about divers with PADI + TEC trainings to stay strictly in a US environment then it is the same anyway: there are more and more persons going for TEC courses if I can trust what I see (more and more training agencies and more and more dive shops proposing PADI + TEC) so it means that more and more divers are getting qualifications to go beyond 45m and therefore will regret that the Oly housing stops at 45m and will buy from someone else.


Even with more people doing that training, there's still at least 20 purely recreational divers to every tech diver. I should add that I'm from Sweden - where we have a lot of deep wrecks and where - should you happen to be part of the tech community - all you see are tech divers. Still, even here, most divers are recreational and don't have training to go beyond 40m.

Tom

#15 Deep6

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:04 AM

In essence, they can get 80% of the market with a housing cheaper than anyone else.

Dave's comment is still valid. Gone are the days that I will penetrate 40 meters. I just bought a new BC; no need for double tanks, mixed gas, etc. There are plenty of manufacturers who make housing rated for 60, 100, Ö Iíll base my housing purchase on ergonomics and functionality.

OBTW, every dive should be a deco. dive; ascent rate & safety stop. :swimmingfish:
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