14 replies to this topic

[cor]

Hey all, im planning on selling a tank because I dont use it much, and someone local (USA) told me I cant legally sell it without a valid visual. It's got a valid hydro, but no visual sticker. Is this true? Seems kind of fishy to me. The prospective buyer knows it needs a visual and has no problems with it, but im just curious now.

[Drew]

I've only bought 2nd hand tanks with visual stickers. Not sure if it's a legal requirement though but someone sent me this link later so I got it inspected again!

[cor]

Hehe, im saving that link

[cor]

Actually, while we're at it, some of our members may know this.

Is a visual itself actually legally necessary? Or is it only legally necessary during hydro testing? Im reading conflicting reports about it. Most fill stations require a visual each year, but does DOT actually require this?

[Steve Douglas]

In this ever increasing litigious society, you bring up a great point regarding the legality of selling a tank. However, in real life, tanks are bought and sold all the time that may be in or out of either VIP or hydro and I can't imagine the buyer not knowing one way or the other. Additionally, what about trading tanks? I recently received an email from a dive group from someone I didn't know looking to trade his 120 for a smaller 80. I rarely use my own tanks so I offered to give him my HP80 for it. It was out of both VIP and Hydro. He called after the trade and told me it needed to be tumbled so I sent him a check for that and he was happy. Any time I ever sold a tank I always tell the buyer that if it failed either, they could return the tank, no problem, but this was the first time and it was on a trade basis, not a sale.
Steve

[cor]

Ive told the buyer that if it fails visual i'll refund the cost of the visual and return their money.

At home in Amsterdam ive also got tanks, and i recently had one done that was 10 years out of hydro No problems.

[Deep6]

Hey all, im planning on selling a tank because I dont use it much, and someone local (USA) told me I cant legally sell it without a valid visual. It's got a valid hydro, but no visual sticker. Is this true? Seems kind of fishy to me. The prospective buyer knows it needs a visual and has no problems with it, but im just curious now.

I am in the US. I have no idea what works elsewhere. I have had no problem selling my used tanks. To be refilled, the tanks must had vaild inspection & hydo. This would fall to the buyer, unless you have a condition on the sell.
Bob

[cor]

To be refilled, the tanks must had vaild inspection & hydo.

Are you saying a yearly inspection and 5-yearly hydro? You wouldnt happen to have a source for this? A DOT website or pdf or whatever? Im trying to find the actual law requiring a yearly visual.

[Drew]

Actually, while we're at it, some of our members may know this.

Is a visual itself actually legally necessary? Or is it only legally necessary during hydro testing? Im reading conflicting reports about it. Most fill stations require a visual each year, but does DOT actually require this?

Ah ok, like Bob says. it's legally required to have a VIP/Inspection to be filled. I don't know about 2nd hand sales requiring an inspection, though. I think that person is just trying to press another $50 off you to do the test before sale. If you've never had it tested, may as well do it. I know I won't buy an uninspected tank. Or you can just use that hyperlink! (ABSOLUTELY KIDDING!!!)

[Deep6]

Ah ok, like Bob says. it's legally required to have a VIP/Inspection to be filled. I don't know about 2nd hand sales requiring an inspection, though. I think that person is just trying to press another $50 off you to do the test before sale. If you've never had it tested, may as well do it. I know I won't buy an uninspected tank. Or you can just use that hyperlink! (ABSOLUTELY KIDDING!!!)

Cor, please bear in mind that I am referring to my experience in the USA. I maintained my tanks. So the transaction is "as is" in which the buyer assumes all responsibility or contingent upon sucessful [whatever].
Bob

[cor]

As far as I can find out there is a requirement by the "Compressed Gas Association" that all tanks in SCUBA service need to be visually inspected every year, and DOT supposedly references these requirements in their rules. On some forums people claim that this specific rule isnt referenced, but I guess one can safely assume a yearly visual is necessary

Drew, this tank has had previous visual inspections. Ive used it for the last 5 years or so. But ive got 5 tanks in the US, and only really use 2. Getting kinda tired of paying for visuals and hydro So im selling some. This one is now *just* out of visual (feb 2011), and the buyer knows this. They weren't the one telling me that I cant sell it without. That was actually a dive shop employee. Maybe for the same reason, although I honestly dont think she really cared.

I wonder if she was confused, and maybe a DIVE SHOP cant sell tanks without a visual inspection. That sounds more likely to me.

[allen]

As far as I can find out there is a requirement by the "Compressed Gas Association" that all tanks in SCUBA service need to be visually inspected every year, and DOT supposedly references these requirements in their rules. On some forums people claim that this specific rule isnt referenced, but I guess one can safely assume a yearly visual is necessary

Drew, this tank has had previous visual inspections. Ive used it for the last 5 years or so. But ive got 5 tanks in the US, and only really use 2. Getting kinda tired of paying for visuals and hydro So im selling some. This one is now *just* out of visual (feb 2011), and the buyer knows this. They weren't the one telling me that I cant sell it without. That was actually a dive shop employee. Maybe for the same reason, although I honestly dont think she really cared.

I wonder if she was confused, and maybe a DIVE SHOP cant sell tanks without a visual inspection. That sounds more likely to me.

DOT does reference some but not ALL CGA requirements. The CGA section on scuba cylinder inspections are NOT referenced by DOT and are a scuba industry standard (I use that term loosely as as the standard is often what ever the shop wants). There is no requirement that for a cylinder to be sold that it has to meet any requirements. It does have to be in hydro to be filled commercially, if filling it privately you can do whatever you damn well want.

Now what often happens is that the insurance industry mandates certain requirements which magically become "law" in the dive shops mind.

Want to talk O2 fills? that is even more fun ...

[bvanant]

DOT does reference some but not ALL CGA requirements. The CGA section on scuba cylinder inspections are NOT referenced by DOT and are a scuba industry standard (I use that term loosely as as the standard is often what ever the shop wants). There is no requirement that for a cylinder to be sold that it has to meet any requirements. It does have to be in hydro to be filled commercially, if filling it privately you can do whatever you damn well want.

Now what often happens is that the insurance industry mandates certain requirements which magically become "law" in the dive shops mind.

Want to talk O2 fills? that is even more fun ...

As far as I understand it, the CGA specifications (6.1 in particular) are part of the law. 49CFR180.205 incorporates these publications “by reference” into the CFR itself. As such, the guidance on these publications are to be considered by US courts as being part of the Code of Federal Regulations and treated as if they were Federal Law.
This means yearly visual but that has no effect on selling a cylinder or not since the buyer is responsible for the hydro and visual on the tanks.
Bill

[Drew]

Should the buyer be responsible? I mean if I buy one and it fails inspection, it's going to be a pain to ship it back etc. I think the seller should get everything done (and not the sticker only!)

[bvanant]

Should the buyer be responsible? I mean if I buy one and it fails inspection, it's going to be a pain to ship it back etc. I think the seller should get everything done (and not the sticker only!)

I guess I should have said user. The details of the transaction are up to the respective parties (I know lots of guys will buy cheap tanks and take on the hydro/visual themselves rather than pay for it to be done by the buyer) but the guy that wants to dive the tank needs to make sure that it is up to snuff.
Bill