26 replies to this topic

[esetterf]

After taking an underwater photography course recently I have decided to take the plunge and purchase a dSLR setup. I already own a Canon 20D with the 100mm macro lens and 10-22mm lens, but would like to upgrade before purchasing a housing.

I have been looking at the Canon 60D and 7D, but after some deliberation still can't make up my mind. There isn't much between the two regarding the cost, but the 60D is 12 months newer and has some of the 7D technology. Both cameras support the EF-S lenses so will be suitable for the 10-22mm that I already own.

Is anybody able to offer any advice on which one would be best.

I am new to WetPixel so looking forward to hearing from you.

[ckchong]

get 7D....there have some 2nd hand housing on sale too

[Drew]

I've been testing the 60D with the Seacam housing for the last month. I think you first have to find out what housings are available for the 60D. I think the noise performance is about equal till about ISO640, then the 7D beats it by a 1/3 stop or so. The other "issue" is the autofocus. The 60D autofocus is competent and only when the subject is dark in low contrast situations does the 7D perform better. This is of course in situations like baitballs and the like where action is fast and the predators are generally lower contrast and most of the time the light is less than 1-2 hours after sunrise. In normal reef scenes, it's a very competent system.
I like the 60D for its video mode, which is separate from the stills modes. I won't go into more detail since I need to write the review in a month or so.
First I'd check on housing options, then think about what is on offer and how it would affect your choice.

[saeedrashid]

Have you considered a 60D in a Nauticam housing. Great housing, I've been using the 7D one for a while now and love it. It's a great price as well.

http://www.uwvisions...p?p=264&m=1&c=1

[esetterf]

The Nauticam housing is one of the things that I have made my mind up on, as I saw one last week and really liked it.

Trouble is they make one for the 60D and 7D so that doesn't help with which camera to go for

[saeedrashid]

Are you UK based?

[Alex_Tattersall]

Hi Emma,

I think we met you last week, didn't we? It is certainly good to solicit advice on this forum about your camera choice. I think I mentioned that one key consideration if you hope to use fiber optics is whether you can dial the camera's flash down to minimal power output. You can do this with both the 60D and the 7D but not as far as I've been able to ascertain with the 600D. This results in slower recharge times which may ultimately become frustrating.

In terms of housing, if you are considering Nauticam, it would be useful to know that the NA-60D housing is a generation ahead of the NA-7D in terms of learning by the company and incorporates the newer closure mechanism. This results in a more compact housing. I think you'd be happy either way but the 7D is a camera which, as you say, has been on the market for a while now.

I'd say also that it is likely that it wouldn't be long before you'd want to get a Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye. I have both the 10-22 and the 10-17 and haven't used the 10-22mm for two years now.

Alex

[Drew]

Emma, Canon is very good at separating their products. The 7D is exactly $700 better than the 60D. But that $700 difference is based on stuff that aren't all important for underwater use.
Stuff like better weather sealing (well maybe for you UK types where rain is the norm! ) and build quality isn't as important as AF performance and control layout. The 60D moved away from the joystick to a double dial pad, which takes a lot of getting use to for someone who's been using the joystick of the 5D2 and 1D4.
The 60D is pretty much a smaller, slight less robust little brother with worse eyesight (AF). It shoots virtually the same picture as the 7D.
The Autofocus is slower and less accurate in challenging circumstances (low light with low contrast being the differentiating factor). It's got a smaller buffer and slower fps.
A lot of the new stuff it brings above the 7D isn't uw related. The manual audio and swivel screen are awesome for topside, but useless uw.
Unless you are shooting fast moving baitballs in lowlight, I'd go with the 60D , save the $700 to get the 8-15mm fisheye, which is Canon's answer to the Tokina 10-17... albeit at 2.1x the price

[wagsy]

I got a 7D and 60D I use for just up top.
Use the 60D all the time now for stills and video.
Record audio straight into it using a Lap Mic and that LCD is fantastic how you can spin it around for all kinds of different angle views.
Like how you can have the LCD out to the side and not have it get smudged by you breath or face each time you take a pic.

[Drew]

Like how you can have the LCD out to the side and not have it get smudged by you breath or face each time you take a pic.

What makeup do you use Wags? Get smudge proof ones!

[rtrski]

Makeup heck...I know from experience that both sunscreen and mosquito repellant can be very bad for LCD screen coatings. Seems like every camera I have ever owned ends up with the screen kind of 'crazed' from my rubbing my oversized nose on it. And every time I upgrade I tell myself I'll buy an LCD protector film...and then just don't.

[wagsy]

Only make up is sun screen.
You clean the screen, take a pic and you have smudged the LCD.
I took it up on a plane for some aerial video and had the LCD flipped out 90 degrees, on the 7D it would of much harder to keep track of shot.
The 7D use to give me the overheating thing many times outside in sunny Australia, the 60D is much better.
It uses SD cards and for $60 you can buy Transcend 16gig cards which work no worries, plus most Laptops have a SD card slot built in.

But as Drew pointed out the differences already, its up to you.

[Drew]

Invisible Zinc sunscreen (an ozzie product) is much less caustic than the chemical ones used by others. Easily cleaned off every surface.

To keep from smudging the screen, use your left eye. Dominant eye issues only occur when both eyes are open. However, if you are diving with many sharks or billfish or anything that can impale or chomp you... keep both eyes open!

[wagsy]

Ha ha...Drew that is all good and well but what about if you have only one eye and its a right one
Actually my friend over here... Mr Freund has that problem. lol

[Cp]

Emma, Canon is very good at separating their products. The 7D is exactly $700 better than the 60D. But that $700 difference is based on stuff that aren't all important for underwater use.
Stuff like better weather sealing (well maybe for you UK types where rain is the norm! ) and build quality isn't as important as AF performance and control layout. The 60D moved away from the joystick to a double dial pad, which takes a lot of getting use to for someone who's been using the joystick of the 5D2 and 1D4.
The 60D is pretty much a smaller, slight less robust little brother with worse eyesight (AF). It shoots virtually the same picture as the 7D.
The Autofocus is slower and less accurate in challenging circumstances (low light with low contrast being the differentiating factor). It's got a smaller buffer and slower fps.
A lot of the new stuff it brings above the 7D isn't uw related. The manual audio and swivel screen are awesome for topside, but useless uw.
Unless you are shooting fast moving baitballs in lowlight, I'd go with the 60D , save the $700 to get the 8-15mm fisheye, which is Canon's answer to the Tokina 10-17... albeit at 2.1x the price

I'm replying here as we are steaming back from our Dry Tortugas demo days trip where I was able to shoot 60D and T3i for several dives. Wish I could have gotten more 60D time but it was pretty popular with our guests.

Drew's assessment here is pretty much spot on in my opinion. 60D is very capable and for the price difference, you are more than half way to getting a second camera body. Compared to 7D, when shooting 60D (and T3i) I have not really been bothered by the slightly slower focus shooting underwater. It seems like a total non-issue for most wide angle. For macro, I'm using a focus light and have not had focus problems. We had a couple of super macro enthusiasts on this trip shooting both of 60D and T3i and they seemed very happy with the AF. In regard to shooting speed, 5.3 frames per second is still pretty speedy and to go faster you'd need some serious strobes.

Size and weight of the camera itself makes a difference too in these days of travel restriction - 60D is smaller and lighter than 7D, and T3i is smaller and lighter still.

Cheers,
Cp

[Otara]

The biggest selling point for me when I got the 7D was the viewfinder.

Microfocus adjust was also nice, and I think it was a bit petty of them to remove it from the 60D, I have two lenses that are greatly helped by that. The AF has lots of extra options as well as increased accuracy - extra focus points, extra sampling speed with macro lenses, extra small focus points, AF tracking, AF expansion.

Id definitely get a 60D if I was buying mainly for underwater now as it wasnt available when I got mine (or even a 600D maybe), but I would miss some features of my 7D -more for above than under though when I think about it.

Otara

[esetterf]

Hi Emma,

I think we met you last week, didn't we? It is certainly good to solicit advice on this forum about your camera choice. I think I mentioned that one key consideration if you hope to use fiber optics is whether you can dial the camera's flash down to minimal power output. You can do this with both the 60D and the 7D but not as far as I've been able to ascertain with the 600D. This results in slower recharge times which may ultimately become frustrating.

In terms of housing, if you are considering Nauticam, it would be useful to know that the NA-60D housing is a generation ahead of the NA-7D in terms of learning by the company and incorporates the newer closure mechanism. This results in a more compact housing. I think you'd be happy either way but the 7D is a camera which, as you say, has been on the market for a while now.

I'd say also that it is likely that it wouldn't be long before you'd want to get a Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye. I have both the 10-22 and the 10-17 and haven't used the 10-22mm for two years now.

Alex

Hi Alex,

Thanks very much for your advice it is appreciated. I will most likely get the fisheye but that will have to wait until I have bought the camera, housing etc. I haven't actually seen a 7D or a 60D in the flesh yet so am interested to see how each feels to handle. Must admit though, it's all very exciting.

Will be in touch once I have made my mind up regarding the purchase of the Nauticam and associated ports etc.

[StephenFrink]

I've been testing the 60D with the Seacam housing for the last month. I think you first have to find out what housings are available for the 60D. I think the noise performance is about equal till about ISO640, then the 7D beats it by a 1/3 stop or so. The other "issue" is the autofocus. The 60D autofocus is competent and only when the subject is dark in low contrast situations does the 7D perform better. This is of course in situations like baitballs and the like where action is fast and the predators are generally lower contrast and most of the time the light is less than 1-2 hours after sunrise. In normal reef scenes, it's a very competent system.
I like the 60D for its video mode, which is separate from the stills modes. I won't go into more detail since I need to write the review in a month or so.
First I'd check on housing options, then think about what is on offer and how it would affect your choice.

I shot last week with the Seacam Prelude for 60D, alternating between that and my MKIV housing. The shots here, http://stephenfrink....rse-august.html, are about equally divided between the two cameras.

Like Drew says, there is a lot to like about the 60D. I don't have direct comparative experience with the 7D, which is the essence of the original post, but for underwater use the 60D is quite ergonomic. The separate video mode is very nice, and the huge LCD is brilliant for menu navigation. I too am eager to shoot this system with the new Canon 8-15mm. Mine didn't arrive in time for last week's dives, but I expect it to add a lot of versatility to the 60D system.

Looking forward to your review, Drew!

[esetterf]

Thanks everybody for all your thoughts and advice it is appreciated.

I must admit I am leaning more towards the 60D and am looking forward to going to see one.

With regard to the topside photography, I do dabble in that quite a bit and am present using a Canon 20D so I am assuming that the 60D will exceed the 20D in many ways and I will be happy with my purchase.

So decision nearly made with regard to camera, I know what housing and strobe I will be getting, now I need to look at strobe arms. No idea to where to start there

Thanks again.

[Travy]

I've been testing the 60D with the Seacam housing for the last month. I think you first have to find out what housings are available for the 60D. I think the noise performance is about equal till about ISO640, then the 7D beats it by a 1/3 stop or so. The other "issue" is the autofocus. The 60D autofocus is competent and only when the subject is dark in low contrast situations does the 7D perform better. This is of course in situations like baitballs and the like where action is fast and the predators are generally lower contrast and most of the time the light is less than 1-2 hours after sunrise. In normal reef scenes, it's a very competent system.
I like the 60D for its video mode, which is separate from the stills modes. I won't go into more detail since I need to write the review in a month or so.
First I'd check on housing options, then think about what is on offer and how it would affect your choice.

I Drew

Hope you are well,when will your review be coming out,i would really like to read it