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NEX 1080 60p video and Mac users!


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#1 A.Y.

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

FYI Mac users: iMovie`11 (version 9.0.4) will not import 1080 60p AVCHD 2 videos from NEX cameras directly. The easy workaround is to copy the video files to the hard drive and then rewrap the 1080 60p (mts and m2ts) videos into QuickTime (mov) movies, using ClipWrap. To prevent iMovie from transcoding the rewrapped videos into Apple Intermediate Codec during importing, follow these instructions to turn on a hidden ClipWrap feature BEFORE processing mts or m2ts files.

To export edited 1080 60p videos from iMovie, go to "Share / Export using QuickTime... / Options / Video" and make sure "Size / Dimensions" is set to 1920X1080 and "Settings / Frame Rate" is set to 59.94. Despite the fact that iMovie`11 "File / Project Properties..." show "30fps - NTSC", 1080 60p video can be exported and will play smoothly on Macs fast enough to handle the format.

Rewrapping AVCHD 2 video avoids the time-consuming transcoding into Apple Intermediate Codec, which can quadruple the video file size and cause IQ loss. I've not encounter problems with iMovie`11 so far and have always checked to make sure everything is perfect before presentation. BTW, I've not tried this on Final Cut Express yet!

Are there other solutions out there that work equally well?

Edited by A.Y., 28 March 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#2 A.Y.

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:46 PM

I did some tests, trying to decide between ClipWrap ($49) and Media Converter (free).

- iMovie`11 will display and render ClipWrap videos correctly; however, QuickTime X crops ClipWrap videos to 1888X1062, but displays Media Converter files correctly at 1920X1080 - very strange!

- iMovie`11 will transcode ClipWrap videos even if the "Optimize video" is unchecked unless a hidden function is activated in the Terminal, iMovie won't transcode Media Converter files if the "Optimize video" is unchecked.

- ClipWrap and Media Converter rewrapped videos appear almost identical to each other.

- Export using QuickTime to Apple Intermediate Codec: ClipWrap rewrapped file produces a more contrasty image with shadow areas appear less blotchy than Media Converter.

- Export using QT to H.264: ClipWrap produces a more contrasty image with shadow areas appear NOTICEABLY or MUCH less blotchy than Media Converter.

Somehow ClipWrap rewrapping method makes a noticeable difference in the export qualities so I'll be using ClipWrap instead of the free Media Converter!

Edited by A.Y., 29 March 2012 - 01:06 PM.


#3 SimonSpear

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 02:15 PM

Cinema Tools will not recongnise 50p or 60p files transcoded into ProRes via Clipwrap so if you want to conform to 25p or 30p for slowmo then you can still re-wrap in Clipwrap but you'll need to transcode in MPEG Streamclip. Just FYI

Cheers, Simon

#4 A.Y.

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 12:31 PM

SimonSpear, thanks for the tip!

iMovie export quality - ClipWrap vs. Media Converter:

Posted Image

#5 Steve Douglas

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

you can still re-wrap in Clipwrap but you'll need to transcode in MPEG Streamclip. Just FYI

Cheers, Simon


Simon,
Clipwrap will also transcode if you set it to do so.
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I have worked as an unpaid reviewer for the editing websites since 2002. Most all hardware and software is sent to me free of charge, however, in no way am I obligated to provide either positive or negative evaluations. Any suggestions I make regarding products are a result of my own, completely, personal opinions and experiences with said products.

#6 SimonSpear

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:43 AM

Simon,
Clipwrap will also transcode if you set it to do so.
Steve


Hi Steve

Yes it certainly will, but Cinema Tools will not recognise it, so if you are shooting 50p/60p and wanted to conform it to 24p/25p/30p (for slowmo) then you need to just re-wrap in Clipwrap and then transcode with another package (like MPEG Streamclip). If you are just putting in normal run of the mill 24p/25p/30p then the Clipwrap transcode works really well and it is what I end up using 99% of the time for AVCHD footage.

Cheers, Simon

#7 uwUfo

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:16 PM

Thank you for this post. I'm new here and it helped me progressed quite a bit!

Now, I was moving to FCPX for this reason, but also got degradation on import/export, so was wondering if your comment also applies to FCPX or only valid for imovie11 ?

My understanding was that FCPX could import mts directly and the coding to mov was not degrading the quality as imovie codec do.

Thanks again!




I did some tests, trying to decide between ClipWrap ($49) and Media Converter (free).

- iMovie`11 will display and render ClipWrap videos correctly; however, QuickTime X crops ClipWrap videos to 1888X1062, but displays Media Converter files correctly at 1920X1080 - very strange!

- iMovie`11 will transcode ClipWrap videos even if the "Optimize video" is unchecked unless a hidden function is activated in the Terminal, iMovie won't transcode Media Converter files if the "Optimize video" is unchecked.

- ClipWrap and Media Converter rewrapped videos appear almost identical to each other.

- Export using QuickTime to Apple Intermediate Codec: ClipWrap rewrapped file produces a more contrasty image with shadow areas appear less blotchy than Media Converter.

- Export using QT to H.264: ClipWrap produces a more contrasty image with shadow areas appear NOTICEABLY or MUCH less blotchy than Media Converter.

Somehow ClipWrap rewrapping method makes a noticeable difference in the export qualities so I'll be using ClipWrap instead of the free Media Converter!



#8 Drew

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 05:40 AM

Posted Image

Seems Media Converter is changing the gamma.

Hi Steve

Yes it certainly will, but Cinema Tools will not recognise it, so if you are shooting 50p/60p and wanted to conform it to 24p/25p/30p (for slowmo) then you need to just re-wrap in Clipwrap and then transcode with another package (like MPEG Streamclip). If you are just putting in normal run of the mill 24p/25p/30p then the Clipwrap transcode works really well and it is what I end up using 99% of the time for AVCHD footage.

FCX has a Retime/Conform tool built-in instead of using Cinema Tools. Works pretty well. I've not tried MTS files from the NEX but other 1080/60p files work, if slower.

Thank you for this post. I'm new here and it helped me progressed quite a bit!

Now, I was moving to FCPX for this reason, but also got degradation on import/export, so was wondering if your comment also applies to FCPX or only valid for imovie11 ?

My understanding was that FCPX could import mts directly and the coding to mov was not degrading the quality as imovie codec do.

Thanks again!


Are you using FCX's import from camera? What are your preference settings? Unclick "Optimize Import" and it won't transcode. It will have hiccups if your system is fast enough though.

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#9 uwUfo

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:28 AM

Yes, I'm using FCX direct import from Camera. I also tried to copy the avchd directory on hard drive and import from there. Both work the same, and I was happy to see that FCP is faster than imovie (and i was expecting no clipwrap conversion to .mov first).
I have all the default setting sao far, and the optimized import are unchecked.

When running some edits in full screen within FCPX quality is crap (even at 50% or 100%), but it seems it's normal :-(.

Now I have tried different exports (h264 was my primary), but none of them provide the level of details i get looking at the original mts file (using vlc).
I did several tests on several camera (gh2, nex7, P&s) in different formats (24p, 720/60p, 1080/60p) and datarate (hacked gh2 at 44), and it doesnt seem i get it rigth (worse case being with the hacked GH2 which gets nowhere near the original mts quality after it goes through FCPX.

I believe i'm screwing up one step in the process, maybe just the export.

So to be clear:
- no need for clipwrap when using FCPX, the .mov generated by FCPX are good ones
- video quality during editing with FCPX is as bad as with imovie
- but when you export, the output should be as good as original mts.


thanks !






Are you using FCX's import from camera? What are your preference settings? Unclick "Optimize Import" and it won't transcode. It will have hiccups if your system is fast enough though.



#10 Drew

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:06 AM

What are your export settings? If you are trying to shrink the file, there will always be some sort of degradation. What are you exporting for?

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#11 Steve Douglas

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:10 PM

"When running some edits in full screen within FCPX quality is crap (even at 50% or 100%), but it seems it's normal :-(."

I think you're mixing up 'screen size' and 'Quality". Set your screen size at the top of X to 'fit all' for your viewer. In your FCX preferences you can set the quality to either High Quality or Better Performance. On X's small viewer, you will probably not see the difference but 'better performance' works by dropping frames. This is okay just for your basic editing and viewing composites and such, but before rendering, switch to High Quality. Remember that for Color Correction it is always best to view your project on an external monitor, not your computer monitor. Several companies make good in/out boxes just for this purpose.
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#12 uwUfo

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:55 PM

What are your export settings? If you are trying to shrink the file, there will always be some sort of degradation. What are you exporting for?


I didnt find any special setting for exporting on h264. Depending on the footage, it is either 1080/24p or 720/60p.
First is to be able to get same (or very similar) from mts files, then multiple goals for usages, all personal, from youtube upload to LCD monitor to HD TV.

I have converted the mts clip using media converter, and it seems the degradation is not as bad as when i downloaded the mts directly from the camera. Its a good sign, but then what's the point. I really thought the main benefit (for me) would have been to import the clip directly. Maybe for what i'm intended to do, clipwrap under imovie11 as mentioned here would be enough ...


Note to Steve: thanks ! I found the option under preference. It did fix that concern.

Thanks to both for your help.

#13 A.Y.

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:08 PM

Now, I was moving to FCPX for this reason, but also got degradation on import/export, so was wondering if your comment also applies to FCPX or only valid for imovie11 ?

My understanding was that FCPX could import mts directly and the coding to mov was not degrading the quality as imovie codec do.


So far I have not encountered problem, using ClipWrap re-wrapped files with FCPX, mixing 60p, 30p, and 24p clips in the same 60p project.

I'd just updated the image to show FCPX definitely delivers better export quality than iMovie, using the re-wrapped file.

Posted Image

#14 uwUfo

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 07:47 AM

Thanks again. Not sure what is going on. Maybe media converter, as i havent bought clipwrap yet, and I hope it is not because i'm still using the trial version.
I so wanted to use FCPX as a smooth transition from imovie, but may have to investigate whether vegas or CS5.5 or 6 would be a faster option without the pb I'm having when not working directly on native mts.

Once again, thanks!

#15 A.Y.

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:42 AM

IMO, FCPX h.264 export quality is excellent - see the new "power pole" images. BTW, I did most of the tests, using a low-light clip because I dislike shadow areas turning blotchy.

So far, I've only used clipwrap re-wrapped 1080 60p AVCHD2 files and have not found any need to transcode AVCHD2 movies to AIC yet! Then again, I don't do fancy effects!

I tried Sony Vega briefly under XP and encountered rather strange problems with 1080 60p clips. Maybe I'll try Vega again under Windows 7 to see if it works better.

#16 focker

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:49 PM

I have finally started playing with FCX in ernest and will probably take a lesson from Steve soon but I wanted to know when I import some AVCHD that I used Clip Wrap to convert should I just import the files into FCX or should I select "Create Optimized Media" in the import preferences to have the video encoded at ProRes 422?
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#17 A.Y.

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 03:24 PM

I have finally started playing with FCX in ernest and will probably take a lesson from Steve soon but I wanted to know when I import some AVCHD that I used Clip Wrap to convert should I just import the files into FCX or should I select "Create Optimized Media" in the import preferences to have the video encoded at ProRes 422?


1080 60p AVCHD 2 video: I just import without "Create Optimized Media" selected and it has worked fine so far.

1080 60i AVCHD 1 video: I did encounter problems with the rewrapped files so I would use "Create Optimized Media" to import.

1080 60i/30p progressive segmented frames (AVCHD camcorder's 30p): Never tried it sorry!

#18 focker

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 03:54 PM

Thank you so much for answering! I have more questions.... First question, I was shooting with the camera on the highest quality which it says is: 1920 x 1080 Full HD resolution and after doing some further research I found it is 1920x1080 60i video. So to confirm I should skip using Clip Wrap and just import directly into FCX using "Create Optimized Media" or should I run Clip Wrap and then import the files using "Create Optimized Media.
I am hoping you say run Clip Wrap because although I still have ALL the original files, after running Clip Wrap I went through and took a ton of time to delete all the files I didn't want from the Clip Wrapped files ;).

Edited by focker, 22 June 2012 - 04:05 PM.

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#19 Steve Douglas

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:24 PM

Good question. I forgot which cam you are using but if it produces MTS files then use Clipwrap to transcode and export them as Pro Res. I forget whether you can set in and out points in Clipwrap, (a new version has just been released) but, if you can, I would set them in Clipwrap and export/transcode them as ProRes into a designated folder. The reason why I say to use Clipwrap is because the FCPX batch capture doesn't allow you to set in and out points for more than one clip at a time. Hopefully, this important area of FCPX will be adjusted. By using Clipwrap you are only transcoding the clips or parts of clips that you really want rather than the whole card with no ins and outs.
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#20 focker

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 05:41 PM

Thanks for the tip Steve. The camera is a Sony SR12 BTW.
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