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How/where to successfully measurebate the UNDERWATER functionality of EVIL set ups ??


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#21 davephdv

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Posted 26 May 2012 - 06:25 PM

Thank you for the great insights! I have decided on the Panasonic GX1 in the lovely Nauticam housing, 2-YS-D1 strobes (sweet), Sola 800 targeting light. PLEASE SPEAK UP (soon please :P ) if you think I've messed up on the configuration. The buy will happen within the next 10 days. I'm leaving for a trip mid June.

I do have some question re: the right lenses. I want to keep it small and easy to pack. I can probably afford to buy and equip 2 lenses but of course I want great wide and macro capability (and flexibility)

General questions: Is the kit lens worth equipping? In other words, would it make more sense to buy both a nice wide and a macro lens set up and skip the kit lens? - or - should I buy the
wide set up and use a diaptor on the kit lens to provide macro capability?

Detailed questions - specifically which lenses:
Wide: Panasonic 7-14 mm lens (w/6" dome port), Olympus 9-18, or 8 mm pancake (any other ideas???)
Macro: 45 mm macro available now, 60 mm macro due out in the Fall, or diaptor on top of kit lens


What do you think about the camera/housing configuration and lenses??? I welcome your advice!



I went with the 7-14 and the 45 macro.

Beta testors have suggested trying the 8 mm FE and 14-42.
Dave Burroughs, Nikon D300, D2X, Subal housing, DS160 strobes

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#22 A.Y.

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

Image quality:


To compete with the NEX APS-C sensor 1.5X larger, Panasonic dropped the video sensor output from 60p to 30p, starting with the 2011 models to improve high-iso performance for stills. This is why you'll see "Sensor output is 30p" next to the 1080 60i and 720 60p specs for all of the 2011 and the current 2012 cameras. Yes, the photo image quality did improve, but at the expense of video performance.

NEX vs. 2010 MFT vs. 2012MFT high-iso jpeg performance. NEX vs. 2010 MFT vs. 2012MFT high-iso RAW performance.

Go for the NEX system if you want dSLR high-iso image quality AND 1080 60p HD (real 60fps, not displaying the same frame twice and call it 60p).

Small high performance lenses:


Sony will soon introduce a 16-50mm (24-75mm equivalent) G (Gold - like Canon professional "L" lens) pancake zoom about the size of of a Panasonic 14-42mm (28-84mm equivalent) X pancake zoom. Small with high resolution - I'll be all over it! :P

The truth is all NEX lenses are already much smaller than the APS-C dSLR lenses from Sony, Canon, and Nikon with identical focal range. I'm a long-time Canon dSLR owner (my brother a Nikon guy) and can see the differences with our own eyes. ;) It's also true that both the NEX 16mm and the NEX 18-55mm OSS kit lenses deliver better overall performance than the Canon 18-55mm IS and Nikon 18-55mm VR. In fact my $600 EF-S 17-85mm IS can't deliver center sharpness even close to my two NEX kit lenses that cost $100 each (bundle costs), and dpreview reviews can backup my observations 100%.

Wide angle zoom:


Sony will introduce a wide-angle zoom in 2012, which IMO will likely be a 11-18mm with over 100 degrees diagonal FOV - great for underwater use (to me at least). Why? I've noticed all of the NEX zooms have identical focal ranges as the A-mount APS-C zooms, and the only A-mount APS-C wide-angle zoom is the 11-18mm. Let's hope this wild guess of mine is correct! :)

Autofocus speed:


NEX autofocus speeds have improved tremendously with each firmware update and I'll backup this claim with a video. Yes, my 5N focuses as fast as the one in the video. Keep in mind that most online reviews are based on the firmwares first shipped with the cameras not the updated versions. My NEX-5N AF speed is now really close to my Canon dSLR except when it comes to tracking fast-moving subjects, then the dSLR will blow it away. :( However, adding a LAEA-2 lens adapter with phase-detection autofocus for videos and stills, 5N will blow away my older dSLR for sure. ;)

Edited by A.Y., 27 May 2012 - 02:13 PM.


#23 Phil Rudin

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:12 AM

I have used the Sony NEX-5, 5N and now own the NEX-7 with a Nauticam housing. I also own the Olympus E-M5 and have used many of the Olympus and Panasonic lenses with the PEN systems.

At this time the Only high quality lens for the NEX system, in my mind is the Zeiss 24mm F/1.8 an outstanding lens that I have used underwater with the Nauticam four inch port for the Olympus 9-18/14-42.

I assume that A.Y.'s information about the coming Sony 16-50 zoom is from this port, http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/page/2/ which suggests the lens will be an F/3.5 to 5.6 lens. While I am quite happy to see Sony is starting to get the hint that more lenses rather than camera bodies might help their busness model I can't agree that a lens as slow as a 16-50 F3.5-5.6 could be in the same conversation as the Canon "L" pro lenses.

A much closer match would be the Panasonic 12-35mm F/2.8 for M43.

While I agree that the APS-C sensor in the NEX-7 has better video capability and slightly better image quality than the Olympus E-M5 it can only be seen when using a quality lens and in fact makes things worse when using most of the low end lenses. As a camera the NEX-7/NEX-5n are great but you need a complete system for U/W photography and the M43 lens just outshine the Sony offerings by miles.

Phil Rudin

#24 A.Y.

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 03:44 PM

The bottom line is there is no one perfect system for everyone! Ultimately, our needs and priorities lead us to purchase different camera systems and drive different cars!

I assume that A.Y.'s information about the coming Sony 16-50 zoom is from this port, http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/page/2/ which suggests the lens will be an F/3.5 to 5.6 lens. While I am quite happy to see Sony is starting to get the hint that more lenses rather than camera bodies might help their busness model I can't agree that a lens as slow as a 16-50 F3.5-5.6 could be in the same conversation as the Canon "L" pro lenses.

A much closer match would be the Panasonic 12-35mm F/2.8 for M43.


I respectfully disagree!

Out of 41 dSLR lenses, Sony has never given a G (Gold) rating to a single APS-C lens before so this NEX 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 pancake zoom will be the first. Not even the A-mount 16-50mm F2.8 APS-C zoom has it.

Only six full-frame lenses have G designation and they are: 35mm F1.4 G, 70-200mm F2.8 G, 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G, 70-400mm F4-5.6 G, 300mm F2.8 G, and 500mm F4 G. Can these lenses be mentioned in the same conversation as the Canon "L" pro lenses?

By the way, which pancake zoom has constant aperture?

Edited by A.Y., 29 May 2012 - 09:38 AM.


#25 Phil Rudin

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 11:29 AM

For me, I would expect more than just better image quality in a high end lens, I would also expect it to be faster than the kit 14-45 and 14-42. The fact that the lens may be a pancake and no one has even posted a photo yet of the lens. This is all just rumor but the pancake makes it even less interesting to me because a new port with a way to access the zoom button will need to be released. This has not yet been done for the Panasonic 14-42 pancake which is a very nice lens compared to the kit 14-42.

By the way you forgot to list the best Sony "G" lenses of all which are the Minolta AF 200MM F/2.8 APO G HS and Minolta AF 200mm F/4 APO Macro G lens, since several you listed were carry overs from the Minolta Days.

No reason a pancake could not be made with a content aperture, perhaps Sony can impress us with that.

Phil Rudin





The bottom line is there is no one perfect system for everyone! Ultimately, our needs and priorities lead us to purchase different camera systems and drive different cars!



I respectfully disagree!

Out of 41 dSLR lenses, Sony has never given a G (Gold) rating to a single APS-C lens before so this NEX 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 pancake zoom will be the first. Not even the A-mount 16-50mm F2.8 APS-C zoom has it.

Only six full-frame lenses have G designation and they are: 35mm F1.4 G, 70-200mm F2.8 G, 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G, 70-400mm F4-5.6 G, 300mm F2.8 G, and 500mm F4 G. Can these lenses be mentioned in the same conversation as the Canon "L" pro lenses?

By the way, which pancake zoom has constant aperture?



#26 leepix

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 09:05 PM

Phil do you have experience/opinion as to which short zoom is better for CFWA the Pany 7-14 or the Oly 9-18? I know that the Pany 8mm FE is probably the epitome but funds may not allow two lenses and two ports on a Nauticam. Really looking hard at Panasonic GX-1 over Oly E-PL2

#27 Phil Rudin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:50 AM

If cost is not an issue I would always take the 7-14 F/4 over the 9-18. You need to keep in mind that the 7-14 requires the Nauticam six inch dome port. The smaller four inch port for the 9-18/14-42 may suit some better depending on your need to reduce size and cost.

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#28 Draq

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:33 PM

If cost is not an issue I would always take the 7-14 F/4 over the 9-18. You need to keep in mind that the 7-14 requires the Nauticam six inch dome port. The smaller four inch port for the 9-18/14-42 may suit some better depending on your need to reduce size and cost.

Phil Rudin



Phil:

I am curious about your experience with this lens in the 6" Nauticam dome. Others have reported some significant issues with soft corners. I have the 7-14 and generally find it to provide good results even in the corners, especially when stopped down to about 5.6 - 6.3, so have assumed it was just the combination of that port and that lens. perhaps it is a difference in subject matter? I assume one would not notice any issue with corner sharpness if the corners are blue water.

I am not challenging anyone's statements or experience; just looking for information as I have not used that lens in that port.

Thanks

#29 Phil Rudin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:52 PM

I don't remember saying I had used the 7-14 zoom with the Nauticam six inch dome port, only that port would be the ideal port for a Nauticam housing. I have used the lens in an Olympus housing with an E-PL1 and 2 using an Athena 170mm dome port. I have used the 9-18 with an Olympus housing and the ZEN Underwater 100mm port. I think any lens with a 114 degree rectilinear angle of view is going to have some problems in the corners. I don't think this lens is any worse than a 14mm on a full frame camera with a 230mm dome port.

Phil Rudin

#30 Draq

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 05:59 PM

I don't remember saying I had used the 7-14 zoom with the Nauticam six inch dome port, only that port would be the ideal port for a Nauticam housing. I have used the lens in an Olympus housing with an E-PL1 and 2 using an Athena 170mm dome port. I have used the 9-18 with an Olympus housing and the ZEN Underwater 100mm port. I think any lens with a 114 degree rectilinear angle of view is going to have some problems in the corners. I don't think this lens is any worse than a 14mm on a full frame camera with a 230mm dome port.

Phil Rudin


Sorry, I just made the assumption you had used that combo. I like to get input from people with more experience and for casual photographers like me, each port and gear and lens contributes to is a sizable investment in gear (by my standards) so I am always looking for input from those who have greater experience and knowledge.

#31 Phil Rudin

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:57 AM

No problem happy to help, making the wrong lens and port choices can get costly.

Phil