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Shaving the Tokina 10-17 FE


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#1 Udo van Dongen

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:06 AM

Hi all,
Yesterday i picked up my copy of the D800 and i've playing around with it since. What beast of a camera! Probably i'm easy to impress because i come from a D200 but still i think i got myself a decent camera. I'm looking forward to submerge it but unfortunately i have to be patient untill early May, because then Hugyfot expects to deliver their first D800 housings.
But anyway, i'm thinking of using my Tokina 10-17 mm FE on this FX camera and i noticed that Tokina sells shaved version of this lens for FF sensors. I was wondering whether anyone on the wetpixel forum has removed the shades himself. If yes, are there any do's and don'ts? Or should i just forget about it and get the Sigma 15 mm FE?

cheers, Udo

www.udovandongen.com
Nikon D800, D800E, Hugyfot housing, 15 mm fisheye, 16-35 mm WA, 105mm VR Macro, 60 mm Macro, Subsee +5 an +10 wet diopters, Inon Z-240 strobes (3x), Inon float arms, Nauticam armclamps, Bigblue and Inon focus lights.

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#2 owfotograaf

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:01 AM

Hi all,
Yesterday i picked up my copy of the D800 and i've playing around with it since. What beast of a camera! Probably i'm easy to impress because i come from a D200 but still i think i got myself a decent camera. I'm looking forward to submerge it but unfortunately i have to be patient untill early May, because then Hugyfot expects to deliver their first D800 housings.
But anyway, i'm thinking of using my Tokina 10-17 mm FE on this FX camera and i noticed that Tokina sells shaved version of this lens for FF sensors. I was wondering whether anyone on the wetpixel forum has removed the shades himself. If yes, are there any do's and don'ts? Or should i just forget about it and get the Sigma 15 mm FE?

cheers, Udo


Hi Udo, i know a guy go has done this with a "Dremel", just be careful you don't hit the glass! :lol:
http://www.dremeleur...5B2.s032-dremel

#3 CheungyDiver

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 06:11 AM

I have shaved off the shades for two 10-17 tokina and one Sigma 15mm FE lenses. You need a lathe and hand turning and infinite patience :lol:

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

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#4 buddy

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:39 PM

I shaved the Sigma 15mm using a regular hand saw. just protect the glass with a soft cover or soemthing else. it is not very difficult. If using the lens with a minidome the Sigma is the better option IMO, it can focus very close.

Juerg
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Nikon D4s, Nikon 16-35 /f4 VR II, 70-180,105mm f/2.8, Subal ND4 housing and ports, 2 Subtronic Fusion (flash and video lights), Sigma 15mm /f2.8, Subal 4" Minidome


#5 Udo van Dongen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 03:45 AM

I have shaved off the shades for two 10-17 tokina and one Sigma 15mm FE lenses. You need a lathe and hand turning and infinite patience :lol:


What is a lathe and and hand turning? Or am i missing a a sort of expression? I also thought of dremeling, but i'm affraid that i'll end up with a lot of dust inside the lens.

I shaved the Sigma 15mm using a regular hand saw. just protect the glass with a soft cover or soemthing else. it is not very difficult. If using the lens with a minidome the Sigma is the better option IMO, it can focus very close.


What kind of minidome do you use with the 15 mm sigma? I have a 4.33' Nauticam with a custom made adapter mount it to a Hugyfot housing. BTW, i think the Sigma is much easier to shave since its shades are much bigger then the ones of the Tokina

www.udovandongen.com
Nikon D800, D800E, Hugyfot housing, 15 mm fisheye, 16-35 mm WA, 105mm VR Macro, 60 mm Macro, Subsee +5 an +10 wet diopters, Inon Z-240 strobes (3x), Inon float arms, Nauticam armclamps, Bigblue and Inon focus lights.

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#6 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 04:45 AM

Udo - have you seen Hugyfot's new mini dome - seems excellent for FX.

Posted Image

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#7 CheungyDiver

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:55 PM

[quote name='Udo van Dongen' date='Apr 3 2012, 03:45 AM' post='305703']
What is a lathe and and hand turning? Or am i missing a a sort of expression? I also thought of dremeling, but i'm affraid that i'll end up with a lot of dust inside the lens.


Here is a picture of a lathe.

Cheers

David

Attached Images

  • Lathe.jpg

Proprietor of Scubacam, Singapore. Commercial videocameraman. Also shoot digital stills. I modify and built stuff. I love technology. Camera: Red Epic/ Scarlet and soon Dragon

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#8 Udo van Dongen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:13 PM

Udo - have you seen Hugyfot's new mini dome - seems excellent for FX.

Posted Image

Alex

Yeah, i noticed, but i was quicker then Hugyfot: a friend of mine made an adapter so i can use the Nauticam minidome on my Hugyfot Housing, and i'd like to use this set, it saves me 900,-.

Yesterday i compared my tokina FE zoom with the 16 mm Nikon FE and now i don't want to use the Tokina anymore: the quality loss is too big. i'll try to upload some 100% crop images later. Now i just need to figure out how the Sigma 15 mm FE is compared to the 16 mm Nikon. Does anyone have an idea what the different nodal points of these three lenses are? then i can start thinking whether i need a new adapter for my minidome or not.

@ David: thanks for you image explanation, i should have looked it up in the dictionary... :lol:..

cheers, udo

www.udovandongen.com
Nikon D800, D800E, Hugyfot housing, 15 mm fisheye, 16-35 mm WA, 105mm VR Macro, 60 mm Macro, Subsee +5 an +10 wet diopters, Inon Z-240 strobes (3x), Inon float arms, Nauticam armclamps, Bigblue and Inon focus lights.

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#9 buddy

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:01 PM

It is a Subal Minidome 4 " in diameter (I think it is the same or similar than the ZEN). The shaved lens just fits into the dome and almost touches the glas from inside at the edges. the Sigma can focus so close (15 cm) that the closest focus point is just outside of the dome glas. This enables pictures starting just from outside the dome (objects almost touching the glass...). Cannot post pictures since have not yet tested enough this setup, but coming soon....

Juerg
www.jvpictures.com
Nikon D4s, Nikon 16-35 /f4 VR II, 70-180,105mm f/2.8, Subal ND4 housing and ports, 2 Subtronic Fusion (flash and video lights), Sigma 15mm /f2.8, Subal 4" Minidome


#10 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:14 PM

Yeah, i noticed, but i was quicker then Hugyfot: a friend of mine made an adapter so i can use the Nauticam minidome on my Hugyfot Housing, and i'd like to use this set, it saves me 900,-.

Yesterday i compared my tokina FE zoom with the 16 mm Nikon FE and now i don't want to use the Tokina anymore: the quality loss is too big. i'll try to upload some 100% crop images later. Now i just need to figure out how the Sigma 15 mm FE is compared to the 16 mm Nikon. Does anyone have an idea what the different nodal points of these three lenses are? then i can start thinking whether i need a new adapter for my minidome or not.

@ David: thanks for you image explanation, i should have looked it up in the dictionary... :lol:..

cheers, udo



I agree that the 10-17mm is limited optically. Especially on the D800. The 16mm is not good behind mini-domes - it does not focus close enough. The advantage of the new Hugyfot dome should mean there is no need to shave lenses.

I don't think that there is a big difference in the nodal points of 15mm and 16mm. The 15mm is slightly shorter, but has longer shades and ends up longer - making it a pain in 4" mini domes. The 15mm is prone to flare with its shades - so i would be cautious about shaving it - otherwise it could be very limiting for normal wide angle shooting.

Alex

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Nikon D4 (Subal housing). Nikon D7100 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#11 Alex_Mustard

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:20 PM

It is a Subal Minidome 4 " in diameter (I think it is the same or similar than the ZEN). The shaved lens just fits into the dome and almost touches the glas from inside at the edges. the Sigma can focus so close (15 cm) that the closest focus point is just outside of the dome glas. This enables pictures starting just from outside the dome (objects almost touching the glass...). Cannot post pictures since have not yet tested enough this setup, but coming soon....


Subal buy the glass for this port from Zen - so it is the same. But different from the Nauticam 4.3" dome mentioned above.

The closer that a wide angle lens is to the front of a dome the more the dome acts like a flat port - and reduces the lenses angle of coverage.

Sometimes this can be an advantage with a fisheye. I took this in Thailand with the 10.5mm on D2X using a dome that Peter Scoones designed to reduce the angle of the fisheye, buy having it closer to the port. The angle of coverage was about 160˚, rather than 180˚. Although I only borrowed it once as it leaked when used on a Subal extension ring, rather than on a housing!

Posted Image

Alex

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Nikon D4 (Subal housing). Nikon D7100 (Subal housing). Olympus EPL-5 (Nauticam housing).


#12 Udo van Dongen

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 11:54 PM

I agree that the 10-17mm is limited optically. Especially on the D800. The 16mm is not good behind mini-domes - it does not focus close enough. The advantage of the new Hugyfot dome should mean there is no need to shave lenses.

I don't think that there is a big difference in the nodal points of 15mm and 16mm. The 15mm is slightly shorter, but has longer shades and ends up longer - making it a pain in 4" mini domes. The 15mm is prone to flare with its shades - so i would be cautious about shaving it - otherwise it could be very limiting for normal wide angle shooting.

Alex

Do you know whether the optical quality of Sigma FE lens is more or less comparable to the Nikon? I hope so... The Nikon isn't an option for me indeed, due to it's long shortest focussing distance. My Nauticam minidome has a diameter of 4.33" (versus the 4.5" Hugy minidome), so hopefully there's no need to shave the Sigma, and if i have to, it's also not a big deal, it'll only be a few mm's.
My Nauticam minidome adapter is optimised for the Tokina and has a thickness of 25 mm. I need to know the difference in nodal points between the Tokina and the Sigma in order to decide how long a new adapter for the sigma should be (or that the 25 mm is still fine, but i guess not...). I was told once that with Fisheye lenses the nodal point in general is at the same level of the edge of the outer glass (more or less the gold ring on the sigma lens i suppose). Hopefully the difference will be no more then 5 mm so i can use the second (20 mm) adapter i also have. Otherwise, i will have to bother my friend again to make me a new adapter...

BTW, how far does the sigma come out when focussing as close as possible?

Udo

www.udovandongen.com
Nikon D800, D800E, Hugyfot housing, 15 mm fisheye, 16-35 mm WA, 105mm VR Macro, 60 mm Macro, Subsee +5 an +10 wet diopters, Inon Z-240 strobes (3x), Inon float arms, Nauticam armclamps, Bigblue and Inon focus lights.

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#13 Udo van Dongen

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:00 AM

It is a Subal Minidome 4 " in diameter (I think it is the same or similar than the ZEN). The shaved lens just fits into the dome and almost touches the glas from inside at the edges. the Sigma can focus so close (15 cm) that the closest focus point is just outside of the dome glas. This enables pictures starting just from outside the dome (objects almost touching the glass...). Cannot post pictures since have not yet tested enough this setup, but coming soon....


Hi Juerg,
I understood that the Hugy minidome is a 4.5" minidome. The Zen is only 4" which might just make the difference between shaving or not. Let's see how the 4.33" minidome fits. How much did you have to cut of from your Sigma? can you post a picture of it?

Udo

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Nikon D800, D800E, Hugyfot housing, 15 mm fisheye, 16-35 mm WA, 105mm VR Macro, 60 mm Macro, Subsee +5 an +10 wet diopters, Inon Z-240 strobes (3x), Inon float arms, Nauticam armclamps, Bigblue and Inon focus lights.

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#14 buddy

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:34 PM

not much, maybe just 10mm and only on the 2 bigger shades (sorry I don't remember exactly anymore how much it really was and recently wasted the 2 cutted parts). The 2 smaller shade are still fully untouched check it out on sigma's website).

Fact is (since that was tested by Subal) that the unshaved Sigma fits perfectly into the 4 inch Minidome when using an extension ring 15mm (this is also the recent recommendation on Subal's lens-port-selection on their website). So here you go for the Subal setup: either unshaved and using the dome with the extension ring or shaving it and not using the extension ring. Advantage of nr 2 is: using the closest focus point (just outside of the dome glass) and even save some cost (not buying the ext ring). Disadvantage: maybe some lens flare because of partly shaved of lens shade.

i will post some pictures tomorrow or so...

Juerg
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#15 loftus

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Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:31 AM

Do you know whether the optical quality of Sigma FE lens is more or less comparable to the Nikon? I hope so...

I think the Sigma 15mm is a tad sharper than the Nikon 16, but have not actually tested them side to side. Tends to flare a little more than the Nikon, but overall I prefer it and rarely use my 16mm Nikon any more.
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