135 replies to this topic

[DeanB]

Didn't I read somewhere it has 3G SDI connection for the 4K upgrade?

Dean

[Nick Hope]

Yeah it has an HD-SDI output on the back and the firmware upgrade is supposed to allow 4k output to a new Sony recorder. Hopefully that will be better than 4:2:0 but that doesn't seem to be clear yet.

I've also read that 1920x1080-50/60p will have to be recorded to the new recorder and not internally. Hopefully the recorder will mount nicely to the camera somehow.

Would so much rather have cameras by a big manufacturer with a proper international support network, than a Red, when based in SE Asia and working in remote places.

[jonny shaw]

Totally understand about buying from a big brand with a support network Nick,

It will be really interesting to see how much the recorder will be.

[DeanB]

8bit 4:2:2 is what I read (sorry no link) via 3G HD SDI ... Although a smaller sensor so maybe not as good as the FS100 in low light!?

Dean

[Nick Hope]

But the fella in that abelcine video I linked to was on about 12 bit raw. I find these bits a bit confusing.

[DeanB]

But the fella in that abelcine video I linked to was on about 12 bit raw. I find these bits a bit confusing.

Maybe that's for the 4k upgrade??? I know it's a box of crazy arsed frogs... Somehow I don't think Sony will be giving us a pro-Sumer cam that's the complete package... As mentioned above other sales F3 etc will take a hit? I was told (once again) yesterday by a beeb series prod that external Recording devices like the Nano are frowned upon because of unreliability issues? I don't know as i haven't used one yet ... Hopefully next week though ... Maybe this is Sonys new direction lots of 'updates' and external 'add-ons'

Still looks like a little gem...

Dean

[jonny shaw]

Although a smaller sensor so maybe not as good as the FS100 in low light!?

It's the same S35 sensor as the F3 and FS100 isn't it

[Drew]

Yup Jonny, it's a new S35 sensor that's the same size as the FS100. 11mp. 12 bit raw is only later with 4k upgrade and wait till you hear what the 4k recorder costs!

[DeanB]

It's the same S35 sensor as the F3 and FS100 isn't it

That's good news I was told it was slightly smaller, something to do with the 4k upgrade?

Dean

[jonny shaw]

Maybe they are doing some sort of cropping to get the data for 4K

[wagsy]

I like the built in ND filters.
Cool camera indeed.

[SimonSpear]

I love him really I just play on the fact he wishes he had an Ex1 instead of a silly DSLR or a Sony (plastic toy) FS100

Dean

FS100>7D>EX1 any day!

Seriously though the FS700 looks a gem which is going to be VERY competitively priced considering what it is offering. If I'd known I would definitely have waited to buy the FS700 over the FS100 for nothing else than the high frame rates, but hey that's life. If the FS700 is as good in low light as the FS100 (which is unbelievably good) then it will be a corker of a camera with a future upgrade path to 4K. What is there not to like about that??

My Scarlet order is still open, but I've got to question that now more than ever with the recent camera announcements. Looks like RED messing up could have done me a favour!

Edited by SimonSpear, 14 April 2012 - 04:29 AM.

[wagsy]

Hey simon, whats the moire and rolling shutter like on the fs100?

[SimonSpear]

I've never yet seen any moire show up on footage from the fs100 and rolling shutter is about normal for a professional CMOS camcorder - it is there but not noticeable unless you start shaking things up a bit. For its price it is a remarkable camera, especially considering its low light capabilities.

[wagsy]

Great Simon, what about compression banding when moving on solid tones like a white wall.
DSLR's are really bad when it comes to this, even at higher bitrates.

And the stock 18-200mm lens, looks like its got pretty good auto focus hey.
Wack a Tokina 11-16 mm lens on it...perfect.

Now the 100 or 700 which way to go now mmm.

Cheers...

[DeanB]

Now the 100 or 700 which way to go now mmm.

Cheers...

Is there any contest ???

Dean

[wagsy]

Well Dean there is if I have to buy a housing for it too.
Found a video here from the FS100 underwater.
Downloaded the raw file loaded up to Vimeo too.
I can see red circular compression reflection kind of thing and the guy did not clean his port too well before he got in :-)
I think the lens was way too wide too.
Anyhow I suppose this gives one an idea of what the underwater footage would be like from a FS700, get a 4K recorder and then you are in 12 bit.
Would not have to zoom then, just do it all in post :-)
[vimeo]39102598[/vimeo]

[SimonSpear]

Looking at the orange/red hue in the shallow water and the blue/green hue from deeper water I'd say that the footage hadn't been MWB and there was lots of artifacting which on Vimeo normally indicates that there has been some confusion between interlaced and progressive workflows.

Regarding banding - I'm sure there is going to be some show up somewhere, but the AVCHD codec shouldn't put you off. When AVCHD first came around it was generally on lower end consumer cameras and I hated it like most others did, however as it progressed onto more pro cameras it has really come into its own as a codec. Of course on the Genesis you will also have the ability to use the Ninja as an external monitor/high bitrate ProRes capture device which is an innovative solution for broadcast specs if required.

I'm not sure my FS100 will ever get underwater, but I'd say after using it topside that it is capable of way more than that sample video showed. The only thing that does worry me slightly is the green colour cast of the water. Sony cameras for the last few years have all seemed to lean towards green colours underwater and this could be an indication that this trend has continued. Sony HD camcorders have also to some degree been difficult to MWB below 15m and when you compare that against just how remarkable HDSLR's have been in getting great WB results at depth even without filers then it is something for me to consider when deciding whether to purchase a housing or not.

Cheers, Simon

[DeanB]

Although is manual W/B going to be a thing of the past? Especially with the onset of 'RAW' capture ... We manipulate our images 'in post' to a degree anyway and with higher bit rates etc etc getting a natural looking image will be a lot easier with editing software than lugging around cards or stopping every few metres to WB ...

If the only negative, for the FS700, against DSLRs Is W/B then surely that's a very small negative?

Dean

[SimonSpear]

I wouldn't say it was the only negative, just part of weighing up options especially when considering budgets and costs. The Fs100/700 plus housing will still be three times the price of a decent HDSLR. You don't need xlr inputs underwater or plus 12 min record times etc etc and many of the moire issues and other faults on HDSLR's are starting to be addressed. All things to consider when making a buying decision.

If we are all shooting RAW in a couple of years time then MWB does become moot, but for anyone right now not employing a colourist or just handing over footage ungraded it is still an essential function to get it as right as possible in camera IMO.