39 replies to this topic

[Davide DB]

MacBook Pros and possibly iMacs with Ivy Bridge are widely expected to be announced at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference in June when most of the big items appear traditionally.

Despite having a Ivy Bridge or a Sandy Bridge Proc/MB you NLE must support the Quick Sync feature. As said before also the Sandy Bridge platform has QS capabilities but the NLE must explicitly support this technology.
The HD4000 GPU inside the new I7 Ivy Bridge is still an entry level GPU compared to many NVidia and ATI cards but the Quick Sync makes the difference.
From what I see googling around Premiere CS6 still have to incorporate QS technology. Maybe using the Intel plugin something changes:

http://forums.adobe....message/3666908

Same story for FCP and Vegas.

BTW I read that Philip Bloom (he is a Mac guy) switched from FCP to Premiere... Full story here:

http://philipbloom.net/2012/05/08/cs6/

Bye

[wagsy]

O I am so disappointed, I can only play 4 tracks of Native Canon 1920/1080 25p mov's files real time.:-)
But I guess 3 of the tracks were being key framed around the screen at the same time so not too bad.

Does Premier Pro play back full res now days or does it still drop the preview quality to keep up?

[A.Y.]

Which NLE currently support Quick Sync? I'd like to test them.

PC-only NLE is not a problem since all of my Macs have BootCamp/Windows installed.

[Davide DB]

Which NLE currently support Quick Sync? I'd like to test them.

PC-only NLE is not a problem since all of my Macs have BootCamp/Windows installed.

Edius 6.x for sure. I'm using it as Wagsy.

I know that also TMPGEnc uses QS also if it's not a proper NLE

[Drew]

Quick Sync is only good for en/decoding MPEG2/4 based codecs. It does not help with delivery codecs like Pro Res, HDCAM/R or DNxHD etc. If your output is only H.264, MPEG2 (HDV, XDCAM HD), MPEG 4(AVCHD, AVC I etc), then using Quick Sync can improve output up to 30% faster, depending on what kind of effects are used. This is tests on Adobe CS5.5 using the Intel Quick Sync SDK. Basically, the more effects tossed in like color correction, MBS etc, the less difference there. I'm not sure if it's because of the developmental software not being optimized for the various plug-ins etc.

Wags, even an 4 core i7 Bloomfield will run 4 layers of H.264 .mov full res real time in a sequence on CS6, with color correction even, with a CUDA card. No sweat on a 12 core. The Edius 6.5 (beta copy) can't do .r3d with source setting, which is an important element in dealing with .r3d files. CS6 can.

Jon, since you are dealing in 4k now, if you have a 12 core or even 8 core XEON, perhaps you should think about looking for a Nvidia Quadro 4000 card instead. It still won't let you do .r3d in realtime (you'll need a Red Rocket for that!) but if you deal with 2k conversions, it works well. Without a Red Rocket, you'll get pretty decent playblack but not realtime. If you are thinking of switching to Windoze, you will definitely need to stick with Nvidia CUDA since CS6 doesn't allow the use of OpenCL Gpu acceleration in Windoze.

As for Speed Grade, still needs to be rendered out from PP to SG, but not back. One can load directly into SG but will have to be rendered out back to PP. That's a pain. The UI is pretty simple but I feel the power of Resolve is so much better plus it's FREE!!! It is slower on the encode though.


Edit: Just tried 5 layers of H.264 from ALL-I off the MBP using CS6 OpenCL acceleration.

[wagsy]

Well I think 99% of folks are shooting with HDV or DSLR cameras now days as appose to RED cameras.
And most of them will want to render out H.264 files to load to the internet or make a DVD.

Yes a high end QUAD or Xeon CPU can do more tracks and render out other formats faster especially if it is overclocked, but the H.264 out encoding is more important for me.

Just finished another little project.
From an edit of native Canon Mov files with mixed audio tracks, transparent logo, graphics, some colour correction, fades and sharpness filters, the 5 minute-54 second edit took just 2 minutes and 41 seconds to render out the 1920/1080 H.264 @12mbps file to load to YouTube. :-)
Then from the same edit I rendered out a 720/576 @CBR 8mbps MPEG2 file ready to author into a DVD. That took 2 minutes and 25 seconds.
Next I rendered out a Canopus HQ file for archiving of the edit and that took 2 minutes and 15 seconds.
For a $700 upgrade to a near on 5 year old PC, this is pretty good bang for buck. :-)

[wagsy]

Update....I thought I would download CS6 and give it a go, as everyone is going nuts over it.
Here is what happened :-)
...................................................



EDIT OPPS just found out how to turn on CUDA fro CS6...things are way much better now :-)

[SimonSpear]

What's the colour correction tools like in Edius? I'm thinking maybe I'll keep my MacPro/FCP for the steady editing work that I get in for that system and also build a cheap PC for H264/AVCHD work as my Mac is just dinosaur these days when doing that type of content. After a days shoot on H264/AVCHD it can take 1/2 a day just transcoding before you can even begin to edit, let alone the insane render/output times I've been getting lately (44min ProRes to H264 is running at around 8 hours now!!). Sure I do most of the longer renders/transcoding/outputs overnight when I'm not using my system, but I could still probably half my edit times on most projects given the speeds you are quoting Wagsy....

[Davide DB]

What's the colour correction tools like in Edius?

Hi Simon,

For what Edius color grading features you can take a look a these 5 tutorials. Despite of the NLE they are one of the best I saw on the net.
Everything is made with the default filters: YUV curve, Three Way Color Correction, Mask and Crominance.
We all descend from them



5 lessons starting from very simple tasks to difficult ones

Then 3 tutorial on keys and transparency



All lessons were recorded on a laptop computer, some files are RED Epic raw files that were downloaded from reduser.com and transcoded directly from R3D to 3k 10bit HQX using VirtualDub.
Yes I know that Red files are not managed real time, some other things are missing but would be nice trying to stick with features that 90% of people need. Otherwise everything is a crap! There's always something better than....

PS
I tried CS6 but you get a similar speed only with an expensive CUDA GPU onboard!

[Drew]

Simon, what MP do you have? You may just need to switch a CUDA GPU and NLE to edit natively if the system isn't too old.

[wagsy]

Yep, if you have not got a CUDA graphics card then CS6 is a pig.
My first tests using it were just terrible but I then downloaded a tool to set the CUDA to on and CS6 then was a zillion times better.
Here is what you have to do if your card is not recognized.
http://www.studio1pr...emiereCS5-2.htm
I am using a GTX 560

Rendering out H.264 is still not as fast as QuickSyc buts its now pretty fastl.
60 second MOV timeline with a transparent graphic and color correction and sound track.
CS6 = H.264 - 46 seconds | MPEG2 = 20 seconds
EDIUS = H.264 - 34 seconds | MPEG2 = 30 seconds

They both have very good CC Simon.
I will continue to mess around with CS6 but it does indeed seem to run really when if set up correct. :-)

[jonny shaw]

(44min ProRes to H264 is running at around 8 hours now!!)

Ouch!

[Drew]

Yep, if you have not got a CUDA graphics card then CS6 is a pig.
My first tests using it were just terrible but I then downloaded a tool to set the CUDA to on and CS6 then was a zillion times better.
Here is what you have to do if your card is not recognized.
http://www.studio1pr...emiereCS5-2.htm
I am using a GTX 560

Not only for CUDA/Nvidia. With CS6 in Mac, any AMD/ATI mac card with OPENCL and 762mb will work for AME acceleration. Just have to use that same hack. Great news for Mac users, not so great for Windoze. I guess Adobe signed its life away to Nvidia for Windoze.

[wagsy]

Looks like CS6 is leading the pack now.
I dumped 4 x 1920/1080 AVC 35mbps 59.94fps JVC files onto the timeline in EDIUS and then in CS6
Single STATA drives.

The 4 x quadrant recording is just how JVC have got around having to use very expensive memory and capture technology to shoot 4K, and use cheap SD cards for capture.
You have to stick the four clips together on the timeline, like 4 corners of the screen.
Anyhow results were.

EDIUS
Project settings
1920/1080 = could not play the 4 clips real time.
3840/2160 = could not play the 4 clips real time.

Premiere Pro CS6
1920/1080 = The 4 clips played realtime with preview window set to 100% but ran out of puff as it got to the end. (Preview set to half res and it was fine)
3840/2160 = The 4 clips played realtime with preview window set to 100% but ran out of puff as it got to the end. (Preview set to half res and it was fine)

Here is a screen grab of how large 4K is to a Canon 1920/1080 mov file.

[Steve Douglas]

But Wagsy, your or any one's results would also be dependent upon what machine you were running, how much ram, processor speed and graphics card. There are too many variables to apply your results with someone else's. Never the less, interesting results for your own testing.
Steve

[wagsy]

Of course it would Steve.
There is a guy with a faster setup than me using SSD and Raids, the best he can get is the 4 x quadrant files playing back real time til 3/4 through with EDIUS then it chokes.
With premier CS he can get all 4 playing realtime with color correction applied to all 4.
The graphics GPU is allowing CS to achieve this and so no doubt other NLE's will go down this path.

EDIUS is rock solid, crashes are very rare indeed, I have huge multi sequence projects hooked to tons of files under my belt now with no loss of anything.
On the other hand Premier Pro has a history of doing all kinds of horrible things.
Be interesting to see how this new CS6 goes over time.

[Steve Douglas]

These things are always interesting. Adobe is sending me their CS6 collection sometime next week and I will be interested in how it does. On another note, I recently reviewed the Accusys RAID which Adam republished here, originally on the keystone.net site. The read/write speed tests were all in the 650's or around there. What I found surprising was that in FCPX I could run 4 streams without dropped frames but in FCP7 I hit 10 streams and could have added more. It took awhile before I could figure that one out. What I've learned is that FCP 7 relies entirely on your processors and RAM for playback and I have 20 gigs of ram installed. FCPX is a totally different application. This app was written to deliver excellent performance even with smaller computers and slower (or less) processors, and, for this, it relies on the extra power of the graphics card. In order to have access to this extra horsepower Apple uses Open CL, which some consider to be a better technology than CUDA. NVIDIA cards, like the NVIDIA FX4800 card I am using, are good for CUDA but not very strong in Open CL support, thus, they are less suitable for working with FCPX.
Steve

[A.Y.]

Best thing is it will only cost me like $800 for new CPU, ram and motherboard.
You poor Apple boys lol

Apple just announced MacBook Pro and MacBook Air with Ivy Bridge CPU, starting at $999.

Without any freetime to troubleshoot hardware/OS/software issues, "free" access to a five-axis CNC machine, proper CAD knowledge, and plenty of freetime to duplicate a MBP/air myself, this "poor Apple boy" will just have to pay for this type of "overpriced" craftsmanship and OS/software/hardware intergrations.

[Steve Douglas]

Hey Simon,
Just how old is your MacPro? How much ram and what is the processor speed. I have never had to provide that much time to transcode. It just may be time for an upgrade for you.
Steve

PS Ken Stone told me his new iMac with Thunderbolt is lightening quick and he is using the graphics card that came with it and 15 gigs ram.

[Ferg42]

I'm just speccing up for new mobo, cpu and ram to upgrade the tired old pc, in a similar way to wagsy. Is it worth going for an overclocked setup? I can get one ready done on ebay, but don't really know what I'm doing, so I'm a bit wary. Trying to keep budget under £400- so far I'm looking at intel ivy bridge i5 3.4ghz, a z77 mobo, and 16gb ram. Already have an nvidia gtx460, works nicely with nvidia 3D vision, but the old setup was pretty slow to render and previews at full res were very low frame rate.
I edit on Sony Vegas Pro (mainly 3D). Any other suggestions? (i'm also making sure the mobo has an esata port for using external drives)

Cheers

Ferg