515 replies to this topic

[ajblanckley]

I'm by no means experienced, but I've always figured I should try to do my best with whatever equipment I had with me at the time. When I last went diving my fisheye port hadn't arrived so the best I had for wide angle was the 12-50mm. Sure there are some limitations, but I still managed a few images that I thought came out ok. That I could also take some photos of smaller creatures was an added bonus.

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Edited by ajblanckley, 12 January 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[Kenr]

Could someone comment on the usefulness of a 45 degree view finder with the Nauticam housing.

[glee719]

Phil, do you use the Subsee attachment to attach Subsee +10 to the 12-50 port? Or do you use a step-down ring? If you use the Subsee attachment can you tell me which diameter you got?

[Phil Rudin]

Kenr,

I use the Nauticam 45 degree viewfinder on all dives with the NA-EM5 housing and it is a tool I would not want to be without. I have never been a fan of using the LCD as a way to achieve critical focus with any lens and have used both Inon and Nauticam 45 degree finders on several past DSLR housings and on the NA-NEX7 housing. This is an excellent addition for the NA-EM5 housing and the viewfinder can be moved from system to system just like quality lenses when you change camera bodies. If you look at those on this forum using DSLR’s many are using these accessory finders. You will find support for both the 45 and 180 versions which in most cases come down to the type of shooting you are doing. Most prefer the 45 for macro and the 180 for W/A, over/under and faster moving subjects like sharks. The usefulness of these viewfinders does not change between optical viewfinders and electronic viewfinders. The issue again comes down to cost and how much you are willing to pay to get the best image quality out of your system.

Glee,

First let me say that the 12-50 Nauticam port and gear were on loan to me at the time I used them and a 67mm step down ring had been added so that I could use my 67mm SAGA flip lens holder with the port. I used both the Inon ULC-165 M67 closeup and the SubSee +10 closeup lenses with the 12-50 zoom and the 60 macro lenses. Nauticam & Saga have flip holders with the 77mm thread for the port and that would be my recommendation with any 67 mm close-up lens. So I was making the best with what I had at the time. Because I already own and use the Panasonic 45mm macro, I have since added the Nauticam 20mm extension port for use with my Nauticam 45 macro port when using the Olympus 60mm macro. The extension ring works very well with the 60 macro and adds very little to the overall size and weight of the system. With the step-down ring and the SAGA flip holder added to the 12-50 port you have the following problems. First the step-down ring reduces the Inside diameter to 67mm, when you add the flip holder the diameter is reduced by about another 10mm and the unit moves out another 5mm from the port glass when the flip holder is open. As a result the 12-50 lens begins to vignette at around 14-15mm and at 12mm the image is almost round with just a few degrees cut of the top and bottom of the circle. With the closeup lenses flipped into place the system worked very well at the 43mm macro setting where it is intended to be used. The idea of using the closeup lens at other focal length settings defeats its purpose to me, in other words way use the C/U lens when you can already get to the same magnification without it going into the 43mm macro setting. If you are not using the Nauticam gear for the lens and you only can get to 50mm then I guess it would help. I like the 12-50 Nauticam port combo and if I owned it I would have a 77mm flip holder so that I could use the full range of the lens. Since I tend to shoot more macro than W/A I am focused on the 45 & 60 macros along with the 7-14 & 8mm for my wide shots. I also think the Olympus 12mm is a steller lens and I use it from time to time.

My review on using the Saga flip holder and a review of the new Saga Zoom filter used on the 12-50 port with both 12-50 and 60macro can be found in the current and past issues of uwpmag.com

Phil Rudin

[girelle]

Great topic. I spent a couple of hours reading through all of the posts in this topic. BTW the photos presented here are great, I especially enjoyed Connie's photos, fantastic lighting and hdr. I'm off today to check out OMD before I buy it. I would be upgrading from a LX5, the OMD looks like a lighter and less expensive alternative to a SLR without giving up too much.

I have a trip scheduled for this coming April and don't know if I want to get the 12-50 and get the 60mm and a fisheye (or wide lens) or just get the 12-50 with the super deluxe port. Ultimately it would be nice to get a dedicated macro and wide lens, however it might be too much overload to get familiar with 3 lenses on a single 36 dive trip.

I am interested in some super macro. I don't think there are problems with the 12-50 and a step down adapter to my inon 67mm diopter (ucl 165), I'm not positive. I also have the UWL-100 wide conversion lens type 2. Do you think I would get any benefit from using it? I would have to step down from 77mm to 67mm and I read here that there is already a little vignetiting with the 77mm port. Maybe I could zoom to 14mm and still get a wider field of view? Am a little ignorant on these matters..

lastly Girelle, we might have meet in Bohal, June 2011. I was diving with an LX5 and diving with Seaquest. If that's you hi .

thanks

Ken

Yes it's me and back to Bohol untill May !! I've posted some pictures in this forum in" Photo and Gallery Showcase" , I think you might be interested .
Don't hesitate to jump to the OMD , it's an excellent camera

[Kenr]

Yes it's me and back to Bohol untill May !! I've posted some pictures in this forum in" Photo and Gallery Showcase" , I think you might be interested .
Don't hesitate to jump to the OMD , it's an excellent camera

Wow 5 months, what fun! I was in Bohol 3 weeks ago, too bad the French restaurant sold. Then a week in Malapascua. Malapascua is worth a trip if you haven't been there its a very beautiful island.

Do you still have your SLR? Miss it?

Edited by Kenr, 13 January 2013 - 06:43 AM.

[deepbluemd]

Phil
As always, your knowledge and willingness to contribute meaningful information about lenses etc to these discussions is greatly appreciated. This forum is a treasure trove to those seeking useful discussion (and opinion) about the equipment they are using or intend to purchase. I often find it interesting to note that many wetpixel participants are scattered around the globe, often without local UW photography stores or experts nearby. This makes a venue like WP one of the few places folks can turn to for in depth discussion on these issues

Cheers


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Deep6]

Phil
As always, your knowledge and willingness to contribute meaningful information about lenses etc to these discussions is greatly appreciated. This forum is a treasure trove to those seeking useful discussion (and opinion) about the equipment they are using or intend to purchase. I often find it interesting to note that many wetpixel participants are scattered around the globe, often without local UW photography stores or experts nearby. This makes a venue like WP one of the few places folks can turn to for in depth discussion on these issues

Cheers


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Ditto, in spades!
Bob

[girelle]

Wow 5 months, what fun! I was in Bohol 3 weeks ago, too bad the French restaurant sold. Then a week in Malapascua. Malapascua is worth a trip if you haven't been there its a very beautiful island.

Do you still have your SLR? Miss it?

We were already in Alona three weeks ago , stange we'd missed .. We have alredy been to Malapascua and we'll go back in February for 10 days §
No my DSLR does not miss me

[Kenr]

I recently sold my LX5 system because I want to upgrade before my next dive trip this coming April. The primary reason to sell the was because of its limited macro abilities. I found myself passing on too many small subjects because they were just too hard to capture, even with a 6x diopter. If I do go the OM-D route I would get the 60mm and the 8mm FE. So now I am one the fence about what additional lenses I would want to buy, mostly for topside shooting as neither one of the two above lenses will work for me topside in most situations. I could buy the 12/50 because it has a good range, however it is very slow and is not as sharp as I would like. It is an inexpensive kit lens so I suppose I can’t expect that much from it.

In reading the posts in this tread it looks like some really like this lens as an all-around underwater lens. I’m hesitant to buy it for underwater use primarily because the port cost $800 and it appears that it’s difficult to take the gear on and off. Before I buy it and potentially get the port I would like to know what to expect. Comparing specs to my old LX5 they are similar in some respects. The LX5 has a 24 to 90 zoom, similar to the 24 to 100 on the 12/50. Both have some macro capabilities. I’m not sure if the 12/50 is better for macro. Both can accept diopters. However the LX5 can accept a wet wide angle lens to give it more than 100 degree FOV. I don’t know if I could fit a 67mm wide lens to the 12/50 and get more FOV. The LX5 is a much faster lens then 12/50 by about 1.5 stops. That may be mitigated by the better sensor on the OMD and that most macro isn’t going be shot wide open.

I think the LX5 is very good for what it can do underwater, its sounds like the OMD with the 12/50 doesn’t really offer much more than the LX5, maybe less (wide). Of course I would expect the OM-D with the 60mm and FE to be much superior to my LX5 and just about on par with the popular crop SLRs. Do you agree with my assessment?

thanks
Ken

[guyharrisonphoto]

The OM-D has a far better sensor than the LX-5. It is truly professional quality with excellent resolution and high sensitivity. That is why the OM-D with the 12-50 will give you much better results than the LX-5. The 12-50 also has macro capability down to subjects 23x34mm in size. Without attachments, the LX-5's "native" in-lens macro does not get as high magnification, and its macro is only at the wide end, and only 1 cm working distance! Underwater, forget it! You have to go to the hassle of diopters to get macro at the longer end on the LX-5, which the 12-50 does not need.

And even though the 12-50 is not an "official" pro lens, you will see a striking difference in image quality over the LX-5.

Also, if you are going to get the 8mm FE, then what do you care about wide wet lenses on the 12-50?. For wide dives, just use the fisheye. For versatility on dives for semi-wide to full macro, use the 12-50.

One aspect of pro-level interchangeable lens systems is that they do not readily take wide wet lenses, so you lose that versatility compared to the LX-5. To shoot ultra-wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) you need a dedicated lens like the fisheye, or the excellent 9-18mm or 7-14mm wide zooms.

By the way, the port/gear is heavy and complex, so I do not use the 12-50 for surface shooting and dedicate it solely to underwater. I use the 14-150 instead, much more versatile.

[Kenr]

Yes I would agree that the OM-D has a much better sensor then the LX-5, I wasn't comparing the two. I don't think macro is only available at the wide end on the LX5. Yes, at 24mm the min focusing is less than 1cm, I recall at the long-end with the macro on it will focus at 30cm. Does the 12-50 really do 1 to 1 as some are saying? I have read it doesn't its .36x and does .76 on the 4/3 sensor (I can't confirm if this is correct. You can't trust half of what you read on the internet). But isn't that half of what you get from a Canon crop SLR with a macro lens? Does the 60mm give you a 2 to 1 magnification with the 4/3 sensor? I don't have a clue what the magnification is on a LX5, I would be interested in knowing for comparison.

The purpose of my post wasn't to compare the image quality of the LX5 vs the OM-D. However I wanted to get a feel for its versatilty. My underwater photography is mostly limited to my LX5 so that's about all I have to compare it too. I wanted some information to help me make the decision if I would buy the 12-50 port or not. Its good to know that it's best to dedicate that lens solely for underwater.

I'm still not sure how the macro capabilities on this lens compare to the 60mm, will the 60 give you more than 2.5 times the magnification? how does it compare to a 60mm canon on a crop. I just interested in magnification factor.

Edited by Kenr, 18 January 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[nudibranco]

My experience:
The versatility of compacts is hard to find with the 4/3 and even more difficult with the DSLRs. But the image quality is different worlds especially because you start focusing on what you are going to shoot UW before and in the water. If you are quickly distracted by both small organisms and large fish or scenery on the same dive then it is not easy to focus on composition and techniques that help you get the best shots. That is true on land as well so it is a mindset not only the image sensor. I agree that when you are diving and you are not sure what you are going to see in unknown locations or waters then a versatile lens like the 12-50 on an OM-D can get a lot of different subjects. But then I think some of the better compacts are probably better as you can really cover the whole range with a small but reasonable quality. I believe that once you move to the better images it is hard to go back to compacts though. I am myself tempted to try the new Sony RX100 for those situations I mentioned and for light traveling. In regards to the 12-50 I can confirm like many others did that it does indeed do 1:1 magnification in macro mode without diopters. Not sure why Olympus quotes 0.76. The 45 or 60 mm macro lenses do 2:1 magnification since they can fill the image with about 17mm horizontal subjects.

[tetsuhiro]

To those who use Olympus housings:

Olympus housings for E-M5 provide a very poor view of EVF and an Olympus stuff told me some tips to improve this.

When you look EVF through underwater protecter, "style 1" is more preferrable than "style 3," because you can easily see an entire field of view with "style 1." However, if you set "built-in EVF Auto Switch" to "OFF" (a normal setting for underwater), "style 3" will be automatically selected (I don't know why).
Following settings will resolve this problem.
1. In "Custom Menu - Built-In EVF" section,
Set "Built-In EVF Style" to "Style 1" and "EVF Auto Switch" to "ON."
With these settings, you can see photos only on EVF and cannot use a rear monitor at all.
2 Then, Set 'Setup Menu - Rec View' to "Auto," and you will see photos are replayed on EVF for about 2 seconds and after that they will appear on a rear monitor automatically. You can end these replays by half-pushing a release button.
With this method, you can use EVF while taking photos, and use a back EL monitor while checking photos.
3. When you would like to use back monitor while taking photos, long-pressing the button on the side of EVF will show you "EVF Auto Switch" menu, and you can turn it ON and OFF to switch EVF and a rear monitor.

I hope those will help you.

Edited by tetsuhiro, 18 January 2013 - 10:03 PM.

[Jock]

Ken, did you read through all of this thread (I know it is looooong)? If you do not want to spend the 800$ for the dedicated port go for the 60mm port and buy the austrian zoom gear!

As for lens quality: What do you normally do with your photos: Publish them in magazines or coffeet-able books? Or have them on your hard drive, look at them on a monitor and occasionally print the one or other? In this case, never worry about image quality of the 12-50 lens - it is much, much (!!) more than "good enough". IMHO. It is a kind of swiss-army-knife lens, as somebody wrote. It is cheap if you buy it with the camera, so go for it, test it on land and decide if -for you!- it is worth taking it underwater.

Jock

[troporobo]

I wanted some information to help me make the decision if I would buy the 12-50 port or not. Its good to know that it's best to dedicate that lens solely for underwater.

Maybe I am on outlier on this question, but I do not find the Nauticam gear to be a problem and I easily take it on and off to use the lens above and below the water. After a few runs with it, it now takes me less than 10 minutes to install or remove. And the gear does not preclude dry use. I have also found it is possible to take the camera out of the housing but leave the gear on and still use the lens effectively (if a bit awkwardly) for those times when I know I will dive later in the day but want to grab some top side shots

[Kenr]

.
Ken, did you read through all of this thread (I know it is looooong)? If you do not want to spend the 800$ for the dedicated port go for the 60mm port and buy the austrian zoom gear!

.

Jock

Yea i read the entire thread but that was before I had these questions and i probably glossed over some things. What is the austrian zoom gear? Did you mean buy the 12-50 port and put the 60mm inside it?

Edit

I knew there was more to this. Jock I think you were referring to this thread http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=48953 . Ok so the 12-50 fits into the 60mm port that great. I get it. Anyone use the austrian zoom yet? Assuming it works,, it's perfect, my 67 diopters will fit perfectly and I have the Inon UWL H100 28m67 type 2, which is built for a 14mm lens to get 101 view angle . Very cool !!

Edited by Kenr, 19 January 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[jlyle]

We had a beautiful day in southern California yesterday. I shot my EM-5 with the 12-50mm lens and Nauticam port. The macro function is great and the electronic zoom is easy to use. Admittedly, the lens port is expensive but the range of pictures you can take on the same dive is impressive.

Edited by jlyle, 19 January 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[nudibranco]

Yea i read the entire thread but that was before I had these questions and i probably glossed over some things. What is the austrian zoom gear? Did you mean buy the 12-50 port and put the 60mm inside it?

Edit

I knew there was more to this. Jock I think you were referring to this thread http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=48953 . Ok so the 12-50 fits into the 60mm port that great. I get it. Anyone use the austrian zoom yet? Assuming it works,, it's perfect, my 67 diopters will fit perfectly and I have the Inon UWL H100 28m67 type 2, which is built for a 14mm lens to get 101 view angle . Very cool !!

60 or 65 nauticam port ? I do not see a 60 nauticam port ... which part number? thanks

[Karl]

Yea i read the entire thread but that was before I had these questions and i probably glossed over some things. What is the austrian zoom gear? Did you mean buy the 12-50 port and put the 60mm inside it?

Edit

I knew there was more to this. Jock I think you were referring to this thread http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=48953 . Ok so the 12-50 fits into the 60mm port that great. I get it. Anyone use the austrian zoom yet? Assuming it works,, it's perfect, my 67 diopters will fit perfectly and I have the Inon UWL H100 28m67 type 2, which is built for a 14mm lens to get 101 view angle . Very cool !!

Yes I have got it and I have had a play with it topside now I am just waiting for the conditions to improve so I can go to one or two of my local sites where I will use it. Most of my diving is done in very poor vis - usually less than 4m - so I use the 60mm macro lens; however we do have a couple of sites where I can use the 12 - 50 (photographing Weedy Sea Dragons etc) to it's best effect and then by adding a +3 dioptre I will have some decent macro qualities.

Here are some test shot I did with the 12 - 50mm and the D&D gears in the NA EM-5 housing with the Macro 65 Port (the port for the 60mm). Sorry about the dodgyness of the images but these were more about testing the gears rather than anything else:

At 12mm - there is no vingetting at all from the Port



At 50mm



At 50mm with a +3 macro wet lens (dioptre) fitted to the front of the housing. This is at it's closes focusing distance.



Same shot but with the 60mm macro lens at it's minimum focusing distance to show a comparision



Again I appologise for the quality of the images as I was in a bit of a rush and was just playing around but this does give you some idea of the capabilities of the 12 - 50mm in the Macro 65 Port. For me this will be my backup lens combo and for those occasions when I dive sites that allow for wide angle.

Hope this helps.

Karl