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Back Inflation or Jacket style BCD


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#21 Timmoranuk

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:30 AM

Long ago I stopped using integrated weight systems with wings other than trim weights, which I don't often need when hauling a heavy, negatively buoyant camera. I do think there is a compelling case for using a jacket though, which was proposed to me by Cathy Church. She proposes that a jacket allows gas to migrate around the body to always orientate optimally whatever your attitude in the water. That said, I have never found that a wing compromises my ability to swim inverted or head down and to capture the shot...
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#22 ce4jesus

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:39 AM

I started diving and shooting with a back inflation vest, dacor falcon. I loved in under the water but hated it at the surface. I tried several things that were suggested to me at the time and nothing worked to keep me from face planting at the surface..including putting liess air, remaining motionless etc etc. It was so frustrating that I moved into a jacket style BC.
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#23 DamonA

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:38 PM

The simple efficient design of a BP & wings, lends itself to having a better COG in any position including at the surface...

http://www.direxplor...plate-wing.html

The only reason I would imagine a photog diver wouldn't have one is they haven't tried a properly set up rig .....yet.
A properly weighted rig would never put you face forward(having for the average human size about 6lb on the rear and 3lb on the sides, maybe it's that camera gear isn't neutral?
I find it easier to lye on my back using my BP/W rig then with my jacket BCD, which I haven't used since getting my BP/W, but it wasn't terrible just not as lean and needed an extra 6lbs to get down with the same dive setup. so Sac rates improve as a consequence.

Dumpable weight pockets that mount off the backplate are better then ones which mount of the waist belt-
http://www.zeagle.co...-Weight-System/

It's sad to watch other divers lug and peddle, lead around the ocean for no real purpose- as we now watch BCD designs become more and more like a simple hog rig. A pocket is easiest to use where you can see it on the thigh, if you need one in the first place.

Edited by DamonA, 21 June 2012 - 01:47 PM.


#24 liquidguru

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:32 AM

I have a back inflate Aqualung Dimension. Most comfortable BCD I've ever used, weight-integrated and finally a back inflate system that gets rid of that stupid and totally pointless corrugated inflater hose.

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#25 John Bantin

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 04:00 AM

You will find that the air for buoyancy in either jacket or wing will move to the same place ie the highest point, which it at your back behind your shoulders. If you need a pocket on a wing, your cannot beat the front pouch of a Buddy Trident (formerly called a Trimix).

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#26 Steve Douglas

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 11:18 AM

That front pouch looks pretty bulky creating drag in the water. At least, that's how it looks to me.
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#27 John Bantin

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 12:18 PM

That front pouch looks pretty bulky creating drag in the water. At least, that's how it looks to me.
Steve



When it's unzipped! If you don't want drag - free dive.

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#28 DamonA

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 02:09 PM

Also the inflation hose looks a tad longish! It really only needs to reach your mouth.

Junk on both of ure hips and your lap, buoyancy increasing padding.... I don't like it- that's exact in the space where I slip stream my camera when swimming against current under load, a smb & reel is best(IMHO) clipped off to a ring on the crotch strap, where it connects to the s.s backplate. I do like to hunt lite.......
It's a bit of a drag show........

Edited by DamonA, 22 June 2012 - 02:10 PM.


#29 John Bantin

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Posted 22 June 2012 - 07:44 PM

I made a mistake posting a picture because people make judgements based on presumption. I was merely showing the front pouch. The padding on the hips does not increase buoyancy since it is a weight harness full of lead to counter the multiple tanks worn by the diver who is doing a long deco-stop after a dive on a wreck in Truk. A long corrugated hose? Her right hand looks a bit big too in comparison to her left and to her single fin! It's the close-up prespective of a wide-angle lens at a close distance from the subject. As for drag, three tanks form quite a drag!

(I've probably used more different BCs than anyone reading this. It's my job. In fact I've used every BC available on the European market over the last 20 years to date. This was always one of my favourites and the choice of my wife for that trip to Truk.)

Edited by John Bantin, 22 June 2012 - 08:34 PM.

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#30 DamonA

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 12:57 AM

No drama John- you use it, you chose it!
It's always a contentious issue and maybe my reasons for choosing a BP/W are different to yours, as construction worker to me comfort means; I am not working today ;)
Also I dive locally out of my own boat and sometimes alone, I have to always make it back to the boat.

#31 E_viking

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Posted 23 June 2012 - 02:29 AM

I use both systems.

I have a "old" Jacket style BCD that I mainly use as a travel ( warmwater) Jacket.
I have a wing Jacket for dry suit coldwater diving.

In my opinion a Wing Jacket can both be great ( finning around) and a pain in the Butt ( Surface etc).
( I tend to look more downwards and less upwards with a Wing Jacket. )
My solution is a couple of clip weights, as trim weights for the Wing, allowing me to adjust to the situation during a dive.
This "solution" fits nicely to drysuit coldwater diving, in which you tend to have surplus "warming" weights.

It is not the ideal solution for Warmwater (no/less surplus weights) and obviously travel/flying.

/Erik

Ps! They are also extremely useful for OWD Students as well :-)

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#32 Chriso

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 01:43 AM

For me its all about ultra lightweight, simplicity and comfort.
The Zeagle Express Tech ticks all the boxes, love diving this little rig when we are traveling, weighs next to nothing and what ore do you need when shooting underwater ?

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Edited by Chriso, 24 June 2012 - 01:57 AM.


#33 John Bantin

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:24 AM

How many wings/BCs are there on the market today? If there was only one correct solution, there would only be one.

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#34 jbdiver

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:58 AM

How many wings/BCs are there on the market today? If there was only one correct solution, there would only be one.


New divers rarely recognize the correct solution, and it's difficult for any manufacturer to create a monopoly in the market. A cheap, poorly designed BC will gain some market share based solely on price.

#35 jbdiver

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:16 AM

Here's the difference, for me, between a jacket BC and a backplate/wing in tropical diving:
I need to wear 8-10lbs when wearing a jacket BC with a 3/2 full suit. That 10lbs is required to sink the first 15ft, then the jacket BC is needed to prevent a ride to the bottom.
I wear 2lbs of lead when wearing an aluminum backplate+wing. I never need to touch my wing inflator hose underwater. The wing is only used at the surface. I'm perfectly neutral at any depth.
The difference in control and performance between the two systems is dramatic. But I understand why people stick to what they know.

#36 bvanant

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:00 PM

I think that there needs to be some clarification between back inflate vs. Jacket inflate vs. Backplate and wings. I have an Aqualung Balance BC. It is rear inflate, it is not a BPW system so I am guessing at least some of the rear inflate bias might be because of that not the whole BPW vs. BCD controversy.
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#37 johnspierce

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Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:09 PM

I think that there needs to be some clarification between back inflate vs. Jacket inflate vs. Backplate and wings. I have an Aqualung Balance BC. It is rear inflate, it is not a BPW system so I am guessing at least some of the rear inflate bias might be because of that not the whole BPW vs. BCD controversy.
Bill


Yeah, I should have put BP/W as a separate item in the poll. I'm suspecting from the comments a majority of people answering the poll might be using BP/W's. Interesting comments and results though.

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#38 Steve Douglas

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 06:26 PM

The dive conditions in San Diego have been poor this winter so I haven't gotten in the water in awhile. Just got a call from a friend to pack up my gear to dive off his boat tomorrow. All packed but then I remembered that I packed my winged BC which I use for warm water diving and filming. Had to switch out BCs to the Scuba Pro Classic jacket which fits over the drysuit. I hate it when I've been out of the water, my organization gets screwed up.
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PS John, I wasn't criticizing, just making an observation and glad I was wrong. I've used a ton of different BCs over the last 30 years and all had their good and bad points. Now, lets talk horse collar BCs. Anyone for a Fenzy? I still have a couple.

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#39 Paul Kay

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:50 AM

I'm assuming that this poll is aimed at wetsuit users primarily? I wear a BC but only ever use it at the surface as all my buoyancy adjustment is made with my drysuit (so its a spare buoyancy device underwater). To me its important that the jacket provides good buoyancy at the surface and holds my head as far up as possible, but it seems that to many posters this is far less of an issue. Also FWIW my wife and I have 4 x BCs all Jacket style Buddys, at least one of which needs a service because the mesh has started to wear through (again). One is 25 years old and the youngest is 10. Perhaps I should actually try something newer.....
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#40 John Bantin

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:18 AM

PS John, I wasn't criticizing, just making an observation and glad I was wrong. I've used a ton of different BCs over the last 30 years and all had their good and bad points. Now, lets talk horse collar BCs. Anyone for a Fenzy? I still have a couple.



I saw someone with a Fenzy soon after I learned to dive and thought it was a good idea. However, other divers at the time told me they were dangerous. I took no notice...but then that's me. I've always been a maverick!

My wife likes to keep a book in that front pouch. It gives her something to read during long deco-stops.

Edited by John Bantin, 29 June 2012 - 03:20 AM.

I buy my own photographic kit. Diving equipment manufacturers and diving services suppliers get even-handed treatment from me whether they choose to advertise in the publications I write for or not. All the equipment I get on loan is returned as soon as it is finished with. Did you know you can now get Diver Mag as an iPad/Android app?