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Sony PMW200 - the new EX1R


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#21 JackConnick

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 09:44 AM

Gates is taking pre-orders with the housings to ship in March.

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#22 CheungyDiver

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:06 PM

I have raised it with John by email, and I had forgotten that we got into quite a bit of depth with the subject when they were doing the EX1 housing. Sounds like it's probably a no-go if the PMW200 housing is going to be very similar. Would still be tempted to try and fettle a solution for myself if at all physically possible.

Interested to hear of anyone's experiences of shooting u/w macro with the EX1 or EX1R, and what lenses you use. I still don't think I've ever seen any. It's all been wide stuff.


According to Gates the first batch is available for pre-order for March 2013 delivery. Pre-orders require deposit otherwise its the next batch for the second quarter of 2013.
I have used flip achromatic +5 but only with flat port. The SWP44 Fathom will be the same for EX1 and EX1r so if you have one already you are already smelling roses. fathom is zoom through but I usually would not risk scratching the fathom unless it is absolutely compelling macro stuff. Super macro shooting you will need the trip. XIT 404 of gates tripod works best IMHO :)

Nick you saw some glass at my place. I might make some work with this one.

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#23 Nick Hope

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:01 AM

In this day and age the PMW-200 seems a big committment for a non-interchangeable lens and no higher framerate than 30p. But with a SWP44 I suppose it'll turn out to be the best top end u/w run'n'gun rig that meets broadcast standards.

I have used flip achromatic +5 but only with flat port.


Was that a Century achromatic, David? I don't recall a +5 variant.

Super macro shooting you will need the trip.


What does that mean?

XIT 404 of gates tripod works best IMHO


Have you used the Xit 404 twist-lock legs? How were they? Are you selling Xit 404 gear?

Nick you saw some glass at my place. I might make some work with this one.


I don't recall any diopters. Or are you referring to something else? Very easy to enter the information-overload zone in your shop!

#24 Pete L

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 12:33 AM

I think that is a big problem right now Nick, too many choices.
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#25 SimonSpear

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

I've never seen flip versions of the Century achromatics but if they could be produced that would be awesome, epsecially as when you use the screw in ones you effectively destroy your DoF for anything but super macro. Even in Lembeh that caused me issues when I wanted to shoot a little wider as you have zero flexibility.

#26 CheungyDiver

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 07:26 AM

Orry Nick typed too uickly so words comes out like a bad radio reception.

Trip should be tripod.

Century Achromatic is still an achromatic lens well made and a brand name. Achromatic could be made from a crown and a flint glass fused together. One element is convex and the other concave. As long as the lens is well made and AR coated it could be +5 to +10 or whatever depending on what close up video you want. The lens must resolve 1000 lines so the glass has to be precisely made and coated. I think the few I used could zoom through 3/4 then goes out of focus. I don't have a EX1R at the moment so when I do I will do some test and stills. I also made double convex AR coated lens big enough to go over the fathom lens. That shorten the focal length, reduce angle but offer higher magnification. These are heavy.

You could try the FS100 or FS700. Its good low light and broadcast colour bandwidth and recording. With an adapter you have tonnes of lens to play with.

regards

David

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#27 Nick Hope

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 05:25 AM

I've never seen flip versions of the Century achromatics but if they could be produced that would be awesome, epsecially as when you use the screw in ones you effectively destroy your DoF for anything but super macro. Even in Lembeh that caused me issues when I wanted to shoot a little wider as you have zero flexibility.


I have exactly the same issue in mind. Such that I'm wondering about carrying a GoPro Hero3 or even the RX100 (I have one on order) to do some wide establishing shots when my A-cam is rigged for macro. Could even potentially mount the GoPro on top of the main rig. I understand the Gates PMW200 housing will have option of Hoya +1, +2 and +4 flip diopters like the EX1 housing, but in my experience they're not like a Century because of the chromatic abberations.

...diopters...


In your previous post, did you mean an external, wet flip +5 diopter? Or internal? And on which housing?

You could try the FS100 or FS700. Its good low light and broadcast colour bandwidth and recording. With an adapter you have tonnes of lens to play with.


The FS700 is a very attractive camera underwater, where its crappy ergonomics don't matter. Unfortunately Gates don't seem to be interested in building a housing for it, and who knows when the Amphibico housing will be ready, and if the gain control will work, and if the retrospective slomo will be accessible. From studying topside footage, I also suspect the FS100/700 doesn't handle blue water highlights very well, a bit like the GH2 banding. What are your findings with that, Simon?

#28 SimonSpear

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

Hi Nick

Since I got it housed I've only been splahing around in muddy puddles (allegedly called lakes) but my first proper diving is in Jan so I'll definitely do a write up/review on it then.

I've had the camera a year now and used it extensively topside and I've never seen any evidence of banding or any other significant issue with image quality. Although I was never a fan of AVCHD this flavour on the FS100 is pretty robust and once transcoded to ProRes I've been able to stretch, poke, push and pull it way more than I ever could HDV or HDSLR footage. I think many of the problems we've seen with underwater screen shots and test footage have been due to incorrect wb and exposure rather than any inherient issue with the camera. The dynamic range on it is pretty good so as long as the WB is sortable I don't see any major issues, but like I said I'll know a whole lot more come end of Jan.

If I was buying from scratch now I'd probably opt for the FS700, but although close the low light is not as good as the FS100 which is the main draw for me as I shoot almost exlcusively in ambient with no lights.

If I had no other requirements with the camera other than shooting underwater that I guess it would be hard to go wrong with the PMW200. I'm sure it is going to become the workhorse replacement for the EX1/R and before that the Z1. For an all round WA underwater system I think it will be hard to beat but for super macro there may be better options.

Cheers, Simon

#29 RWBrooks

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 06:28 PM

So what are the issues with Super macro on the 200?

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#30 Nick Hope

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:35 PM

So what are the issues with Super macro on the 200?


It's unlikely to be as sharp as an interchangeable-lens camera with a dedicated macro lens. I'm gessing the single-element flip diopters available with the Gates housing would tend to give a picture with soft edges due to chromatic aberrations. A screwed-on achromatic diopter such as a Century would be better, but then you're stuck with it for the dive.

(p.s. That's all theoretical speculation. I don't even think I've ever seen macro EX1 or EX1r footage)

#31 CheungyDiver

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:54 PM

I have experimented with both types. Wet dioptre that is also achromatic and much thicker (like the Subsee dioptres) due to four elements. This is not like the ones out in the market like the +5 or +8. Those are 'air' achromatic lenses. Hopeless and little magnification UW. There are lots of wrong information in the market with the digital still crowd. These suits the 67mm filter thread and some ports are made with thread for wet dioptres. Not large diameter enough for Fathom. Actually I don't see a point of making one to go over a Fathom lens. Anyway I am blathering I am happy to use them on HD DSLRs and so is my UW video buddies.

If I make achromatic flip that works inside with the SWp44 Fathom then no 'stuck'with a dioptre inside.

You never know - if there is enough demand Gates might just make a housing. I do not see they would need to speed all that much of R&D. The Deep epic housing and Canon C300 share same kind of Iris, Focus and zoom gear mechanism. The other parts of the housing body with all the controls may be the tough bit. Again I don't see that is insurmountable mechanically. Just the demand I think. Sony FS 100 and F700 would make fantastic UW video kit. When the F5 and F55 becomes available I am sure someone will make a housing.

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#32 Nick Hope

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:21 PM

Actually I don't see a point of making one to go over a Fathom lens.


I agree. Attempting full wide and sharp super macro on the same dive is asking too much. But one over a flat port would be useful.

If I make achromatic flip that works inside with the SWp44 Fathom then no 'stuck'with a dioptre inside.


You think there's room in there?

You never know - if there is enough demand Gates might just make a housing. I do not see they would need to speed all that much of R&D. The Deep epic housing and Canon C300 share same kind of Iris, Focus and zoom gear mechanism. The other parts of the housing body with all the controls may be the tough bit. Again I don't see that is insurmountable mechanically. Just the demand I think. Sony FS 100 and F700 would make fantastic UW video kit. When the F5 and F55 becomes available I am sure someone will make a housing.


I can't really see it happening with Gates now. At the top end they seem more interested in broadcast spec cameras. In a way the FS700 is already starting to feel a little old since the much improved ergonomics etc. of the F5 and F55. I can imagine an improved replacement for the FS700 in the not too distant future. Maybe Nauticam could step into the FS700 housing void since they're already dipping their toes in the water with the RED housing.

#33 Walt Stearns

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

I had a look at the Nauticam prototype housing for the RED, looks very interesting. My one concern, is there may not be enough air space inside the housing for the camera's cooling fan to do its job efficiently, as this camera can generate heat even in standby mode.

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