Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

White Balance with Lights? Wide Angle

DSLR Wideangle Lights and

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#21 blaisedouros

blaisedouros

    Moray Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:36 AM

I can't believe the ignorance of the comment "fix-it-in-post is an obscenity!" Whoever believes that has a long learning curve ahead of them!


My previous career was in post-production working on documentaries for NGT and PBS. The cameramen I worked with worked hard with whatever techniques were necessary to get shots as close as possible to corrected color. They had to, since there's only so much color correction that can be applied to compressed camera streams, even when shooting 100mbps DVCProHD, or similar. I learned to shoot from those guys, so my approach is strongly biased towards that. I'm no Howard Hall, but it ain't my first rodeo, either Posted Image

I do understand that shooting RAW is totally different--and I agree that it will make it much easier to fix colors in post. However, given that most cameras are still shooting compressed codecs without anything near the color latitude of a camera shooting film or RAW video, I believe it's still good procedure to get the colors right (or close to it) in-camera, so that any color correction performed is just a minor adjustment, and doesn't end up pushing the codec farther than its color latitude allows.

As a post-production guy who learned to shoot, I know exactly what it takes to correct an image that could have been shot better on location...and I avoid it at all costs in my own footage!

You've got a stock footage business, and I don't, so I'm not going to argue with you about what sells, or what makes a successful shooting technique Posted Image Clearly, the approach you outlined works great in many situations! I don't think that means it's the ONLY approach that will provide good results, though, and I think that having lots of techniques in the toolbag is the best way to guarantee success.

Edited by blaisedouros, 10 August 2012 - 08:37 AM.


#22 HDVdiver

HDVdiver

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 327 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia...Great White Shark country.
  • Interests:Dive,dive, dive...

Posted 10 August 2012 - 04:41 PM

I basically agree with you...I was reacting to the word "obscenity". That phrase is incredibly narrow and dogmatic... and contradicts your last comment about "lots of techniques in the toolbag is the best way to guarantee success". If using a good NLE it's possible to do decent color grading even with crappy old HDV material (which I used for several years...so I know it's limitations well).

Of course it's better to get the color as close to perfect during the shoot! That's exactly why I always use powerful lights when the ambient underwater light is a monochromatic blue. But no amount of White Balancing by itself is going to give "correct color". Posted Image

Edited by HDVdiver, 10 August 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#23 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:14 PM

You got that right, Blaise! The best solution is the one that works for the chosen shot!

Problem is with a DSLR in video mode, it's not as simple as hitting the MWB button and it adjusts automatically. Often it's hidden in a menu, and the CaNikon cameras even require a picture to be taken and used as a reference for MWB. Not something one wants to do constantly esp if the subject isn't constant ie changing depth/distance etc.

To answer the OP's question, it's best to MWB on the subject (coral head/reef etc) with lights on subject. Never use AWB because it may shift settings as the scene changes, making it difficult to correct in post.

EDIT: There are a lot of buts, ifs and whens to this method. Which is why I advocate learning the physics and applying it vs looking for rules.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#24 Oceanshutter

Oceanshutter

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 382 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Salt Lake City, Utah

Posted 12 August 2012 - 09:49 AM

You got that right, Blaise! The best solution is the one that works for the chosen shot!

Problem is with a DSLR in video mode, it's not as simple as hitting the MWB button and it adjusts automatically. Often it's hidden in a menu, and the CaNikon cameras even require a picture to be taken and used as a reference for MWB. Not something one wants to do constantly esp if the subject isn't constant ie changing depth/distance etc.

To answer the OP's question, it's best to MWB on the subject (coral head/reef etc) with lights on subject. Never use AWB because it may shift settings as the scene changes, making it difficult to correct in post.


So you white balance on the reef instead of a white slate? Wouldn't this give an incorrect "white" to the camera?

Website - www.OceanShutter.com

My Video's on Vimeo

My Video's on Youtube

 


#25 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 12 August 2012 - 12:54 PM

Sorry I meant for subjects like reef. The most accurate is to have your slate at the same distance as where your subject will be, but most people do 2 ft away and correct in post.

EDIT: There are a lot of buts, ifs and whens to this method. Which is why I advocate learning the physics and applying it vs looking for rules.

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#26 blaisedouros

blaisedouros

    Moray Eel

  • Industry
  • PipPip
  • 79 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 August 2012 - 07:23 AM

I was reacting to the word "obscenity".


Once again, the need for a special sarcasm/hyperbole font becomes apparent...come on, internets! Let's have some REAL innovation!

#27 HDVdiver

HDVdiver

    Eagle Ray

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 327 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Adelaide, Australia...Great White Shark country.
  • Interests:Dive,dive, dive...

Posted 14 August 2012 - 03:11 AM

For those interested in seeing what color correction/grading can do for UW video have a look at:



It's very basic but will give you an idea of what's achievable very easily with a good NLE (Edius in this case).

#28 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 14 August 2012 - 10:11 AM

Here's a thread about color correction without lights and how close one can get (I didn't try very hard) to lit subjects:

http://wetpixel.com/...showtopic=23629

Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#29 Pete L

Pete L

    Tiger Shark

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 525 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney Australia

Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:03 AM

My cyan filters arrived today. A big thanks to Pete Mooney from Scubapix.
I will get some comparison footage over the next few weeks to test the differences. I do like the way they just twist around when not in use. So you don't have to remove them underwater.
Cheers Pete.

Posted Image

www.duai.com.au

Stockist of Gates/Subal/Archon/Flip3.1

 






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: DSLR Wideangle, Lights, and