47 replies to this topic

[Davide DB]

From the specs the GH3 is a good camera...and Panasonic did a good job in breaking from the previous mentality of minimalism when it came to codec quality and bit-rates. The selection of codec alternatives and decent bit-rates is a great start. Depending on what comes out of the HDMI (4:2:2 ?) that could be a bonus for use with a Ninja, etc. No doubt V.K. will eventually hack the GH3. That's really something to look forward to!

Yesterday the guys at photokina had the opportunity to shot some video on their sd cards. Video has been sent to PV for analisys already. Good news.
More have to come today.

http://personal-view...6#Comment_86256

It seems that the encoder has two, three times the power/memory of the GH2. So plenty of space for an upcoming hack.

Here a comparative table that will be updated as new info come out:

http://www.personal-view.com/photokina/coverage/gh2-vs-g5-vs-gh3

The different (and higher) frame rates 50p/60p are always good to have, perhaps more for topside work.

Unfortunately the 72Mb ALL-I bitrate works only for 24/25p and at 50/60p you get 50Mb.

Perhaps the biggest let-down is that the new (Sony?) sensor is not multi-aspect (the GH2's was). Still, I can live with that if the new sensor is indeed better in terms of DR and noise.

For what I understand it means that in video mode 16:9 the crop factor rise to 2.4 like the BMC.
The news about the sensor being Sony is yet to be confirmed. If true I don not understand Panny on this move.
Panasonic has a long history making sensors and the GH2 sensor dimonstrated its knowledge.
Outsourcing the core of the camera the risk to repeat the Nikon experience. I do not think Sony will sell the best and latest technology to its competitors.

So...if China and Japan don't do anything stupid in the meanwhile the first GH3's should be available in November. I'm not too worried about a housing...got an old Subal sitting in my workshop ready for conversion.

Yes.
BTW Seeing the new buttons layout I think would be a nightmare building a housing with ISO and WB button on the top. I mena form the usability point of view.

Edited by Davide DB, 18 September 2012 - 01:12 AM.

[Davide DB]

So we know nearly everything now about this camera.

I wrote nearly because Panasonic faced the photokina show as a bunch of beginners: two GH3 with a 0.4 firmware, no tech reps. but just marketing people. This resulted in various contradictions among different interviews and specs. sheets. Several no comment or maybe or I don't know on several questions.

Is it a Panasonic sensor? So it is not a Sony sensor? No comment

To me it just means that it is Sony sensor. Same error Nikon made. At first you are happy that you can save money but suddenly you realize that you no longer have people, skills and facilities.

Right now it seems that the HDMI ouput is clean but is 4:2:0. Maybe this is not of concern for uw filming at the moment

I think we will have to wait for a real GH3 on the shelf to understand what is under the cover for sure.

At P-V organized a donation to send some guys to attend at the presentation and interview a Panasonic manager. They went there with a pre arranged set of questions.

This is the resulting interview:



Or you can find all the Q&A written here:

http://www.personal-...erage/interview

There is also an interview by EOSHD with a Panasonic Senior Planner Engineer Yoshiyuki Inoue:

http://www.eoshd.com...e-panasonic-gh3

Edited by Davide DB, 20 September 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[Nick Hope]

Unfortunately the 72Mb ALL-I bitrate works only for 24/25p and at 50/60p you get 50Mb.

72Mb ALL-I also works at 30p, doesn't it?

Can anyone explain why the 72Mb codec wouldn't work at 50/60p? The higher frame rates is surely where you want the higher bitrate? Being only 50Mb means that if you shoot 50p/60p as your "default" mode, and then want to drop a frame to get 30p for Vimeo or whatever, you're actually going to end up with only 25Mb. i.e. Roughly only a third of what you'd get if you shoot 72Mb @ the lower frame rates.

Some other things that concern me reading here are that it may have no zebras, no focus peaking, and no aperture control in video mode. Anyone have any firmer info about this?

[Davide DB]

Hi Nick,

Yes 25p/30p Pal/Ntsc have 72Mb ALL-I.
Several sources said that it's a world camera but I think we will have a NTSC and PAL version. Nobody knows even Panny at the moment.
The most requested features were HDMI 4:2:2, Zebra and Peaking. Till now it seems that Panny failed to deliver the most requested features. While pro and consumer divisions are completely separate, probably they feared to cannibalize other products. Actually in these two years after the launch of the GH2 a lot of things are changed. IMHO they should have pushed a little more on features. Anyway given the superficiality of Panasonic at Photokina we have to wait for the end of november to understand exactly what is shipped.

I saw a GH3 video from EOSHD but as usual, this guy cares only to show his ego. He posted a edited video shot at photokina,. He converted and heavily graded it so we haven't further info on the real quality. Just one thing: everybody noticed the heavy moire effect on the guiy shirt at the end.

http://www.eoshd.com...-sample-footage


Yesterday I read a comment on which I 100% agree (Except the released 1.0 firmware will change a lot of things respect the showed 0.4 fw at photokina)

The moirè/aliasing issue is quite evident.
ALl other manufacturers haven't found a way to eliminate it in sub 2k$ products (Althought Sony has much less than Canon).
If they let it in such a big event like Photokina, with official launch, I don't think they are going to solve it with firmware.
Sensor has a big role in this thing, and clearly GH2 sensor was good for pixel binning while GH3 one (Sony?) not.
So, now we have a good mirrorless camera, with lots of features, but it's no more something unique in the market.
With GH2 you could trade sensor's small size and related problems (noise, crop factor) with clean, crisp, almost RED-like detailed image.
Now, we have a DSLR like all the others, it has good dynamic range (I guess like - and no more - Canon, Sony, Olympus and Nikon), it has moirè and aliasing problems, it has the smallest sensor of the bang (together with Olympus).
If I am an APS-C user, I see not so many reasons to change the wagon anymore, while I was clearly tempted by the GH2 and even more by the idea of an improvement of it if without steps backwards.

Edited by Davide DB, 24 September 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[Nick Hope]

Some sample videos are starting to dribble out now, but unfortunately none of them yet have been particularly useful. The video at has an interesting scene at 01:13 where banding is visible in the highlights on the wall (unfortunately they don't say what codec they recorded in). I'm expecting that the GH3 won't handle highlights such as sunballs very well, but I hope I'm wrong. Other sample GH3 videos have shown increased moire over the GH2, but I don't think this is such a problem underwater where we are surrounded by a natural filter and have little geometry. It may be to our benefit.

Personally I still expect to get a GH3 when it's out, but the PMW200 in a Gates housing is definitely in contention as my next principal u/w camera.

[HDVdiver]

I think some of the "GH3" videos out there are actually bogus...but this one of Adam Mada doing a GH3 version of Phillip Bloom's "Mum cooking" is genuine.

If what you refer to as banding @ 1:13 is the total extent of the issue in the GH3, I will be pretty happy with it. It's an 8 bit codec camera as is the PMW200's internal codec.

It's likely to be hackable so who know's how good the image quality will be a few months after it's released.

[Davide DB]

IMHO the best review on GH3 until now.

[youtubehd]iIJTfu9Kpqk[/youtubehd]

[Nick Hope]

I agree, that's a good review. Most important things for me now are if there is improvement in the open-water banding over the GH2, and if we can get a good housing with a glass dome port. I'm probably going to get one anyway for topside stuff and for u/w macro. Would love it to be good enough to be my main u/w wide-angle cam too.

Anyone know when it's supposed to hit shelves in S.E. Asia? We called Panasonic Thailand today and they hadn't even heard of it

[Davide DB]

Anyone know when it's supposed to hit shelves in S.E. Asia? We called Panasonic Thailand today and they hadn't even heard of it

Try on P-V, usually there's a lot of people well informed.

Driftwood wrote 1st of December in UK:

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/95961#Comment_95961

Byeeee

Edited by Davide DB, 08 November 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[Davide DB]

The producer on some of the best GH2 settings got a GH3 in his hand today

http://www.personal-...5#Comment_96365

We will get serious testings in a few day

I have the Gh3 in my hands for the day in Brighton. :-)
Ill be testing mainly 24/25p modes in All-I - the 50p modes are identical just about to the G5 so I'm not too interested in those for the time being - however I'll make a number of various recordings. I'll be using the Voight 25mm 0.95, OM f2 50mm Macro, Wide 7-14 Pany, X Lens 45-175 f4.
1) Firmware.5. Initial hdmi out test: set to 1080p, viewed on Pany monitor TV sync is showing clean 1080p / 50hz on a 24p all-i record mode. Old Ninja jumps to 1080i. I am confident by release date we will be able to record a true progressive clean signal to hdmi devices.
I have done a series of recordings which I will be analysing tonight. Its been pretty difficult to do 'in the field' stuff with Panasonic around me at all times. The good news is that next week I get more time on it to pick up from tonights results. :-)

[Drew]

Anyone know when it's supposed to hit shelves in S.E. Asia? We called Panasonic Thailand today and they hadn't even heard of it

I was told Jan.

[Davide DB]

Finally first batch of camera was available in Europe and a couple of them came in the hando of Nick Driftwood, the author of some of the best patch/settings so far (even if i use a Lee Powell settings )

He posted a couple of video on Vimeo shoving some features. It's nice because he's a guy who knows very well the GH2 and he already analyzed files generated by GH3

[vimeohd]54265503[/vimeohd]


[vimeohd]54362801[/vimeohd]

It's worth noting that out there it's full of fake gh3 video.

[Nick Hope]

According to a recent EOSHD blog, the European model won't do 60p. Can anyone confirm this?

"Interestingly, though the PAL / European model of the GH3 doesn’t shoot 1080/60p (it goes up to 50p) you can still get the 40% slow mo which toggles 1080/60p on the sensor and a 24p output."

[Davide DB]

Hi Nick,

At the moment it seems that it's not a global camera. Panny it's making its' best efforts to ruin this product as usual.

I do not like too much EOSHD opinions. I mean, he is a knowledgeable guys but too much fan boy for my taste

Anyway, great tests on PV, besides of the many videos, here a resume:

Fw version 1 Questions and answers here
I'm ready to accept any queries anyone has: Ask away and Ill endeavour to answer /even test/now!

• NOT WORKING NTSC/PAL/vice versa Rec modes switching: Ive tried switching to NTSC to no avail - so no 30p/60p. Another reason why we need GH3 hacked.
• WORKING 4:2:0 HDMI Out 1080p Out of HDMI to compatible 'progressive' monitor confirmed as working beautifully. You can record GH3 pictures with or without the display menus in the picture!
• NOT WORKING FULLY Wi-Fi remote recording doesnt work correctly for remote shooting using Lumix Link on Iphone/iPad. I havent got an Android to try this out on. Basically it only works if you move your hand across the EVF sensor to initiate photo taking. Movie recording doesn't work. I believe a firmware upgrade/Lumix Link fix will be required by Pany. It didnt work in v0.5 fw either.
• NOT WORKING 1080 50/60P can't make use of Ex Tele. Indeed any setting using the Sensor Output of 50p/60p will not be able to use EX Tele mode. This includes the AVCHD 108050i/60i modes and MOV mode 720p50/p60 and 40% / 48% slow-motion settings which also use a sensor output of 50p/60p. There is little or no information regarding above in the manual. On this site there is a note under the Ex Tele table regarding 50p/60p sensor modes;- http://panasonic.net...o_shooting.html
• ? Can't record > 30mins in PAL GH3. Same as GH2. Because of licensing laws in EU, the GH3 is only able to make max 30 minute recordings. NTSC is fine. The getaround (which I need to confirm) is that a new file will be created on recordings greater than 30 mins when it reaches 30 minutes of continuous recording for PAL land.
• WORKING Touch screen/Manual Focus Assist with Manual Lenses Working with firmware v1. Couldnt get this working with v0.5.
• WORKING Full Range Flag in SPS Video full range is confirmed in GH3 (not applicable on GH2).

here that thread:

http://www.personal-...and-opinions/p1

[Nick Hope]

Thanks Davide. I'm trying not to get too stuck into PV or I won't get anything else done! I was thinking of picking up the GH3 body+12-35 kit when I visit the UK for Christmas, but now I think I'll have a USA version sent to Thailand. I want 60p and I don't want that 30-minute limit. I know they'll probably be resolved with a hack, but would prefer to give myself a chance of not having to do a hack if possible.

Also it sucks that 50p/60p won't work in EX Tele mode. That worked on the GH2, right?

[Davide DB]

Pull the trigger in USA

On GH2 EX Tele works in all video mode but GH2 doesn't have 1080/50/60p.

The 30 min limits is diabolic and usually it's the first thing to be removed with a hack.
I was reading that there are a lot of 24/25p and 30 min limits combinations:

http://personal-view...4#Comment_99244

Australia should be a PAL land but without 30 min limit that is a EU tax

[Nick Hope]

Pull the trigger in USA

Planning to as soon as a kit with 12-35 lens starts shipping.

[pugetseaslug]

The Panasonic GH3 now seems to be shipping in quantity (finally!). I have not ordered one - yet - but I'm very tempted.

Before I do, I'd like to get some idea if there will be a housing for it. Nauticam has not responded to my email inquiries asking about their plans (if any).

Has anyone heard anything about a housing for this camera?

[Davide DB]

One month ago Nauticam replied me that a new housing is already under development. Anyway no date yet

[ScubaBob]

I also saw mention of this on the Nauticam USA fb page. But still no specific date..

https://www.facebook...elevant_count=1

Edited by ScubaBob, 13 February 2013 - 06:18 PM.