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Sony RX100 housing: Nauticam vs Ikelite, pair with Inon UFL-165AD

rx100 inon ufl-165

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#21 derway

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:29 AM

For still photo both th g1x and g15 are problematic, due to industry lagging auto focus systems. Their CD AF is just not up to snuff. Lots of lag, lots of frustration as the light or contrast drops. The sony, or pany cams, or the latest Oly cams all blow the canon and nikons out of the water, for CD AF.
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#22 SPP

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:53 AM

there is no 30p option with AVCHD... and i would like to stick with AVCHD file format....

Spec:
AVCHD: 28M PS (1920x1080, 60p) / 24M FX (1920x1080, 60i ) / 17M FH (1920x1080, 60i)
MP4: 12M (1440x1080, 30 fps) / 3M VGA (640x480 30 fps)


RX100 60i is 30p, same as NEX7 but not the same as older A55 which was a real interlace 60i.
.

#23 kc_moses

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 10:36 AM

Sfen,

It really is depend on your application. But since you metion Youtube/Facebook, just go with the highest quality/bit rate they accept. For me, beside online sharing, I would like to bring the video offline as well.

For example, when I go on liveaboard or extended dive trip, I would bring my Android tablet. Since we're in the middle of no where, there is no internet access. But when meeting new people and sharing dive experience, it would be nice to be able to show them the videos, hence I preload them in my tablet. My tablet is the first generation Andoird (Tegra 2, dual core), so it can only handle 720P, so I just always output my video to mp4, H.264 with the highest bit rate I'm willing to store in my SD card at the tablet. I then upload it to Youtube and let Youtube do whatever compression it wants to, at the mean time, I have a good quality to view on my tablet. I haven't play around with 1080p yet as my tablet can't support it. But I'm getting a i7 laptop for my travel device so my application is changing soon.

As for you, if you're using ipad, then you will have different criteria for off line sharing. But like SPP said, 1080i is basically 30p. Also, if you don't have a powerful computer, 1080 (60fps) could give you trouble. If you look at my video in Youtube, those were shot in 720p (30fps). I ran those video through stabilzer filter so the viewer won't get motion sickness. I was using a dual-core computer and a 3 minutes clip took me 4 hours to stabilize especially when there is a lot of coral. But it only took my new i7 computer 4 minutes to do the same clip, so I'm transitioning to 1080p (30 fps or 60fps)

So, it's not only what you want to output, but also what can you output based on your set up. Hope that help. But, nothing beat some practice, so take your RX100, go out and shoot some video on land, then play around with your software and upload, see if you like it.

#24 albatross911

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 05:15 AM

I hope the links work as I am just doing this all on my iPad. First time diving with the RX100 in the Nauticam housing and also first time using the Inon close up lens. Not used to the short focusing range yet. These 2 pictures are only cropped via iPhoto on iPad.





#25 Alex_Tattersall

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 08:01 PM

Impressive!
www.flickr.com/photos/alextattersall

www.nauticamuk.com
www.uwvisions.com
Exclusive official importer of Nauticam products into the UK and Ireland

#26 Interceptor121

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 12:21 AM

A few comments about the questions in this thread

I have just ordered a Nauticam RX100 housing myself and I should have it to play with tomorrow.

As far as I can see the M67 thread on this housing sits very close to the port. I have a 10Bar M67-ADF adapter but I am 100% sure that it will not work and the lens will scratch the port as the UFL165AD protrudes more than 3 mm from the back of the adapter itself

I have also two modified adapters with additional 2mm and 4mm distance between back of the glass and port. I will test them tomorrow and see what are the results with UFL165AD, UWL105AD, and UCL165AD

Surely the Sony camera will vignette with AD lenses however the fact that Alex has managed to get good results with the UWL28M52 with a step down ring means the camera behaves in a similar way to a canon S95.
I don't have the UWL28 myself to see how wide is the back glass compared to the INONUFL165AD however looking at pictures of the lens back I can see there is a conspicuos ring around the glass suggesting the lens itself is around 40mm diameter which is nearly the same as the UFL165AD

So I would think the UFL165AD with a special adapter would work but I will post some pictures tomorrow after my tests on land

An INON UWL100 28AD will definitely work with the 10 bar adapter as this is really what that adapter provides M67 to 28AD and not M67 to AD

Edited by Interceptor121, 23 October 2012 - 12:22 AM.

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#27 kc_moses

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:57 AM

Thanks Interceptor121! Do you have the Inon UFL-165AD? Your description sounds like the problem I currently have with my Epoque housing for my Sanyo video cam. I too have the 10Bar AD-> 67mm adapter, and the back of UFL-165 do touch the housing, so I bought a 67mm UV filter, crack the glass and screw the 10Bar adapter on it and use with the housing. I do have to zoom in a bit to get rid of the black corner. My video cam is 35mm at the widest so zooming in a bit is not big deal.

Here is the sample, scroll to 4:15 and let me know if you see any vignette problem after zoom in.



I do have to clarify that I post processed the clip so I lost some border around the footage. I hope zooming from 28mm to an acceptable zoom range will get rid of the vignette.

I haven't get into close up lens yet. So far I saw a lot of people using Subsee, but the price of INON seems to be more of my range, will need to research that soon.

Let me know how your test comes out, thanks!

Edited by kc_moses, 23 October 2012 - 09:04 AM.


#28 Interceptor121

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:35 AM

Hi There yes I have the same Sanyo and same housing and a complete set of AD lenses UFL165, UWL105 and UCL165x2
In fact the idea of cracking the glass from an UV filter came out on scubaboard out of one of my threads, however it is not a working suggestions as filters add 4mm to the adapter and that results in blurred soft corners that I can clearly see in your link. The sanyo is a 44.2mm equivalent however it has 10x zoom the lens is far away from the port and unless you get the back of the glass literally on port the picture is blurred.

To have a perfect picture uou need to build a custom adapter with a spacer of 2mm, you can check my channel www.youtube.com/interceptor121 there is a video in St Lucia that is shot entirely with an Inon UWL105AD, I would not recommend looking at the UK diving ones... Posted Image

I also do not like the barrell distortion of the UFL165 or any fisheye in video it makes me sick, I think a flat 100 degrees lens is better like the UWL105AD or the epoque DCL20 or the inon UWL100 that work perfectly with the sanyo but are fat too heavy for my liking

I will keep you posted on my test with the RX100 and AD lenses take into account I will dive in an UK quarry (!)

There was someone else complaining about AVCHD and the 60 fps of the Sony
For information the AVCHD standard has been recently updated and now contemplates 3D and 60/50 fps footage

Besides it is possible to drop half the frames during processing and produce a normal 30 or 25 fps video. I used to do that with the 60fps footage of the epoque though I now only shoot 30fps as it is a waste of file space and no device can actually play 60fps other than my iMac. 60fps though are very useful for macro as you can then slow down behaviour footage to half speed and it still comes pretty sharp so I would not discard it

Edited by Interceptor121, 23 October 2012 - 07:38 AM.

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#29 kc_moses

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:02 AM

Thanks! Saw your footage, and look like I'm not the only one suffer from BAD Sanyo Image Stabilization problem! But at least you're more stable then I do!

I'm beginning to debate if the UFL164 is worth keeping around since it's giving so much problem. the 67mm frame I attached to the 10Bar adapter now got stuck and can't be separate. If I were to get a new 67mm filter frame, it's almost impossible to find a 2mm thick one and they could cost $100+ for a filter that you're going to break the glass for the frame!

Thanks for the 60p tips as well. I was never able to process 60p video and certainly can't play those back on my tablet. But I'm getting a new i7 laptop so that might change, I still have to play around with it.

Also, they just posted this: (Recsea vs Nauticam vs Ikelite for RX100)


I'm really liking the Recsea big dial. Having them side by side really open my eye, how big the Ikelite is! I generally don't zoom when shooting video, but the dial on top of the Ikelite make me wonder about the front dial.

Oh, can you confirm if the RX100 can do custom white balance as easy as the Sanyo?

Also, where are you located? I'm thinking of going to Lembeth next year, I saw that you been to Raja Ampat, I'm wondering if you have opinion about Lembeth vs Raja Ampat.

Thanks!

Moses

Edited by kc_moses, 23 October 2012 - 09:03 AM.


#30 Interceptor121

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 09:13 AM

The Sanyo has NO optical stabilizer, the only one I use are my buoyancy skills however in macro mode I zoom in and that makes it even worse.

The UV filter does get stuck but you can separate it, put it in de-ionised water, then use the lens on to actually move the threads, use the cap.

There are no filters that are 2 or 3 mm you need to machine a spacer yourself. An UV filter costs 3$ cheap on amazon but as I said it solves no problems with that set up

I am going to get my housing tomorrow so I let you know how it works with the commands. The sanyo has custom short cuts but still you had to navigate into the menu for white balance.

I have not yet been to Raja am going mid November, I considered Lembeh straits but as I have been to Dauin (that I really recommend) I did not want more of the same for now. Dauin like Lembeh are muck diving, but Dauin has apo island whilst Lembeh only much. Raja has also larger fish and nicer reefs that the volcanic sand

I will post some land pictures of the RX100 tomorrow including the adapter and some in water over the week end

I am based in Weybridge UK

For what concerns the housing review from Scott excellent job as usual. A few comments as I have a Recsea for the Canon S95, there are two things I don't like about that housing, one is the rear wheel that occasionally triggers the wrong control and the second is the cold shoe, that I had to secure with Loctite as it was shaky. Having also used the first version of the Recsea S95 that did not have the rear wheel I preferred it hence I went for the Nauticam that looks very similar to the Fix housing for the S95 and has a very promising cold shoe and an M67 thread

What is revealing from Scott review is the fact that Ikelite has the usual M67 thread port that makes a wide lens sit further away. He says it vignettes with an Epoque DCL-30, but I guess that if an Inon UWL-H100 28M67 type I can be mounted there is no vignette and potentially a dome port.
The 10 bar adapter could work on the ikelite if there is space but all to be checked. The ikelite is a big box but is neutral in water

Edited by Interceptor121, 23 October 2012 - 09:28 AM.

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#31 Interceptor121

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:03 AM

Quick update, I have received the housing unboxing video here

However the camera itself did not arrive

I had time to look at the port and I can tell you that you need more than 2mm actually 3mm as spacer on the 10bar adapter, I have already prepared it for testing
The UV filter trick continues not to be an option the lens sits too far from the glass

On another note the M67 thread of the Nauticam has a port incredibly well built I think an Inon 28M67 would be literally on the glass

I measured the Inon back lens and it is 30mm this may be too small for the huge port of the Sony in any case tomorrow the camera should be here and I will let you know the final outcome

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#32 kc_moses

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:49 AM

Thanks for the unbox video! I believe the UV filter frame I used is 4mm. Did you already have the Inon 28M67? I saw the photos of it, looks like Type 2 should not have issure of its back pressing against the housing. Please also let me know how far you have to zoom in when using the UFL-165 in order to get rid of the black frame, and if it has blur corner. This is all so exciting!

#33 kc_moses

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:00 AM

Not sure if you seen this: http://www.camerasun...t-inon-ufl165ad
The UFL-165 seems useable even after zoomed into 50mm

His site has review for other ports too.

#34 Interceptor121

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 10:22 AM

Yes I have one of those filters and there is too much gap

Yes I know the guys at cameras underwater they are very competent
The challenge is that the S100 is a 1.7" chip camera the front lens is only 2cm diagonal, looks like the Sony RX100 with 1" chip has a lens of 2.5CM if that is the case it will vignette severely at any zoom

Anyway hopefully tomorrow this camera will turn up and end of the waiting

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#35 derway

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 09:19 PM

The oly e-pl5 has just kicked this camera out of the ball park.

Same sensor as the omd - totally awesome. About $700 for camera and $800 for oly housing.
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#36 Interceptor121

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 11:40 PM

The RX100 is a compact camera with fixed lens, the E-Pl5 is a system camera with interchangeable lenses, they are not comparable

Edited by Interceptor121, 24 October 2012 - 11:40 PM.

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#37 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:10 AM

I had a go today with my AD lenses and they all work, there is vignetting until 34mm for the UFL165AD and 36mm for the UWL105AD on land but those are the same results I got on the S95 so it does give similar performance despite the larger sensor

I will post a youtube video soon

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#38 kc_moses

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:59 AM

derway,
One of my critical requirement is shooting video. The Olympus only does 1080p 30fps, while the Sony does 1080p at 60fps. Besides, Sony uses avchd, not just H.264. Sony has very great track record of very smooth Image Stabilization when shooting video, starting from their HX9. I did consider the Sony NEX series though, like the NEX-5, but it come down to compactness because I already have a Canon 7D for on land photos, Carring two interchangable camera with lens on a dive trip (especially liveaboad) just not a fun thing to do when airline are giving hard time about carry on weight/size these days. Thanks for the info though.

#39 kc_moses

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:05 AM

Thanks Intercepter121! Did you just use the 10Bar adapter or you have the UV filter frame as well? As far as you can tell, any blur edge once you get rid of the vignett after zoomed? Look forward to the video!

#40 Interceptor121

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:07 AM

I used a custom adapter with a 3mm additional spacer.

I took some shots with the two lenses. The picture of the TV is with the UFL165AD is not designed to work on land. The thermometer is shot with the literally on the lens theUWL105AD is a fisheye on land and has a lot of distortion however to me the result is similar quality of the S95.

Attached Images

  • UFL165AD.jpg
  • UWL105AD.jpg

Edited by Interceptor121, 25 October 2012 - 08:14 AM.

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