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Sony NEX with 8mm fisheye

Nauticam fisheye port query

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#1 Scubysnaps

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:08 AM

I thought I'd seperate this from the "is DX done" thread as this seems the most upto date way forward "at the moment" regarding DX fisheye.

I think this lens may be the way forward, http://www.rokinon.c...duct.php?id=198 but as its a manually controlled lens, the aperture could be set to f/16-22 and focus set to infinity and possibly used on shutter priority (I havent got my NEX-6 yet so not too familiar how it may all work)

This guy has used it last January also with focus peaking on land
http://www.thephoblo...sheye-sony-nex/

Jmauricio is hopefully testing a rented lens out soon underwater, looking forward to his results

I would imagine there may be some port vignetting on Nauticam's current dome port set up, would I be correct?

I have also seen sonyalpharumors suggesting that rokinon maybe joining up with samyang to bring out an electronically controlled version of this lens, but not sure if I have time to wait for my next trip at the end of this year

Any more related thoughts on this subject most welcome
Cheers
Paul

*Nikon D90 with Tokina 10-17 & Nikon 60mm, 105mm, Sigma 17-70, Kenko1.4 * 2 x Z240 & 2 x 12 litres...global! *

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#2 coroander

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:01 PM

I'm using the Nauticam 4.33" dome port for micro 4/3. This supports 180 degree diagonal fisheyes. This new f/2.8 fisheye for Sony is a 180 degree diagonal fisheye, so as long as the lens doesn't end up too far back inside the port (it shouldn't), then there should be no vignetting.

Because it's a dome port, it creates a virtual image (the dome port becomes a lens underwater). While it depends somewhat on the lens and camera, you should expect the virtual image with this port to extend from about 10cm to 20cm in front of the sensor; 10cm is for objects touching the front of the dome, 20cm for objects at infinity. Theoretically, you could focus at 13cm and with a large enough f-number have everything from touching the dome to infinity in focus. Except that once you go beyond f/11 diffraction is almost certainly going to soften the images though f/16 may still be acceptable (though doubtful). It may be that focusing at about 15cm at f/11 is just an all around better solution. Some trial an error is likely in order, but if you set the focus at .15m and f/11 and stuff at infinity is soft, then you'll have to adjust the focus closer to .18m. If stuff at infinity is sharp then you can work your way towards .13m.

The lens has a minimum focus of .1m, so there won't be a problem with focus inside Nauticam's 4.33" dome.

Go the m43 route and you can get a bunch of fantastic auto-focus solutions for wide angle, macro, zoom, video, etc. :-)

Edited by coroander, 10 October 2012 - 06:13 PM.


#3 Scubysnaps

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:11 PM

Thanks for that, I never tend to remember my settings I've had on my dSLR in the past underwater, I just adjust as I go along. Got to keep the DX alive, the new NEX-6 is many times a better camera than the EM-5 (apart from the lens choice!) But we will get there in time, watch this space
Cheers
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#4 gobiodon

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:03 AM

I would like to see a comparison against the sony 16mm+fisheye adapter combo, which is actually not bad and does AF. I saw several photos taken with the rokinon (samyang) with bad magenta shift around the corners and I'm not sure how much better optically the rokinon regarding sharpness and resolution.
Marcell Nikolausz
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#5 Scubysnaps

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

I've just been looking at some of my shark photos taken at f/16, they seem ok further back...I was using an 8" dome however, with a smaller radius dome, do you lose a lot of sharpness in the depth of field? I wouldnt worry about any slight CA, its all we can get for now, that can be eliminated in LR quite easy.
Rokinon and Samyangs lens are 2 different lenses, samyangs is huge, so I was told its just another lens with an adapter built on the end, however the rumour is that they may be joining together for the 8mm NEX AF version is it not?
I also asked about a comparison with what you say and the MFT 8mm, No pictoral answers as yet, would love to see all 3 compared tho NEX16mm P+FE and NEX 8mm FE and MFT 8mm FE.

The port length would still concern me with the 8mm, I reckon the pancake and FE converter and Rokinon are around the same length but as the Rokinon is 8mm I would have assumed vignetting
Cheers
Paul

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#6 jmauricio

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:17 AM

No pictoral answers as yet, would love to see all 3 compared tho NEX16mm P+FE and NEX 8mm FE and MFT 8mm FE.

The port length would still concern me with the 8mm, I reckon the pancake and FE converter and Rokinon are around the same length but as the Rokinon is 8mm I would have assumed vignetting


I rented the rokinon 8mm fe and its due in tomorrow. I also have the 16mm and FE and will take some pool shots with that too.

#7 gobiodon

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:35 AM

Rokinon and Samyangs lens are 2 different lenses, samyangs is huge, so I was told its just another lens with an adapter built on the end, however the rumour is that they may be joining together for the 8mm NEX AF version is it not?


No, actually they are the same but samyang is branded under various names. In Germany for example it's sold as Walimex. They had a previous fisheye version for DSLRs and first it was sold with an adapter also for NEX. Now they have a new version specifically designed for mirrorless cameras. According to the rumors they are working on AF versions as well.
Somehow I can't link the subpages of the samyang homepage but you can find it for yourself:
http://www.syopt.co.kr/

I rented the rokinon 8mm fe and its due in tomorrow. I also have the 16mm and FE and will take some pool shots with that too.


That's great!
Marcell Nikolausz
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#8 jmauricio

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:23 PM

Ok, took me a little while to get the photos processed and put together. At the link below you can find some of the results. I did not get to do all the tests I wanted due to weather. However, I think the below is fairly representative.
  • The Rokinon images show the dome shade in every shot. Eyeballing the Sony + FE and Rokinon, I thought the Rokinon sat in a better position relative to the dome. But this is not the case, the Rokinon sits a tad too far back.
  • I'm sure a focus or aperture gear could be designed for the Rokinon to change one of those.
  • Min focus is much better than infinity, but that should be obvious
  • Read the captions! They, hopefully, offer detailed descriptions.
http://jmauricio.smugmug.com/Other/WA-Lens-Test/25974677_P8w2bZ#!i=2155109507&k=9qpQf9V

As I said before, I was not able to do all the test I would have liked. However, I own the 16mm + FE and Nikonos 15mm, so if anyone wants any other tests on these with the NEX 7, let me know.

Also, please let me know if you have any questions. I'll try to answer them.

Finally, this was fun. There is another thread looking for a macro option and I'm thinking of trying out some various Nikonos macro options as well. Let me know if there is interest here.

#9 Scubysnaps

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:58 PM

Thank you so much for that,I've been looking forward to this all week! When convenient could you do some crops from the bath tub shots of the corners? in particular maybe, your gorillapod and a couple from the centre of the orange tub? I could live with the shade vignette, shouldnt be too much of a problem to remove, shame the shade is not removable, maybe a smaller shade might be a quick fix from Nauticam? It seems the Rokinon images are sharper than the Sony?
Thanks again :)
Cheers
Paul

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#10 gobiodon

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:17 AM

Many thanks for your test. I think it's quite useful. I've planned to buy the rokinon but I think I will skip it. The magenta cast is visible in every picture and although it can be fixed by softwares I don't like it. Central sharpness is not better than the 16mm+FE and the corner is just slightly better. Considering the magenta cast, it's not much improvement over the sony combo, especially if we consider the lack of AF. In case of CFWA the corners are not so important and the difference is not that big at higher F numbers between the rokinon and sony.
What do you think (based on the full resolution photos)?

Thank you again for your efforts and looking forward to your macro tests. Do you have the 30mm macro lens for sony? Do you have any old monolta or sony (alpha) glass?

Marcell
Marcell Nikolausz
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#11 Scubysnaps

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:36 AM

OMG! I never noticed that :( hmmm, it might actually help the water colour adding the magenta in?

Maybe another bet is to hang on for one of these full electronic adapters, already available for Canon lenses, 6 months for Nikon...

http://www.sonyalpha...-from-mxcamera/
Cheers
Paul

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#12 jmauricio

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:30 PM

There is a talk that the newly released nex firmware fixes the purple haze in wide angle issue, so is not really a lens issue. apparently this was also the case with some WA leica's wider than 35mm. Anyway, since I sent the lens back already, I cannot try it out.

It was a cool little lens. If you really must have it now, a gear could be made (3D printed?), it could let you control one of either f stop or focus.

If the rumors are true and they come out with an AF version, its well worth waiting.

I think a larger dome would be great. 6in might be ideal. also cool would be an adapter to use larger domes for other housings (i already miss the ability to do over/unders).

Here are the center and corner crops at F11 - Orange cup is at c. 1in from front of dome. Upon 100% crop, focus is not great.

Posted Image

Posted Image

And F22 - at 2in from front of dome. Focus here is this is much better. This is at iso 200 & 1/60 with no noise reduction at all. it could w a bit

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by jmauricio, 18 October 2012 - 03:32 PM.


#13 jmauricio

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:38 PM

Thank you again for your efforts and looking forward to your macro tests. Do you have the 30mm macro lens for sony? Do you have any old monolta or sony (alpha) glass?

Marcell


I have the 30mm e mount macro, the nikonos 35mm, Nikonos 80mm, the Nikonos close up lens, an Inon 165, and an extension tube set. Sorry, I don't have any Alpha or Minolta glass.

Any requests?

Am traveling the next two weekends, so won't really be able to do anything till after.

#14 Scubysnaps

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 01:08 AM

Thank you jmauricio, very helpful, I may try rokinon again see if I can get some answers from them.

What is your favourite macro option and do you find you have one that you dont have to get so close up to the subject with?
Cheers
Paul

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#15 gobiodon

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:08 AM

I have the 30mm e mount macro, the nikonos 35mm, Nikonos 80mm, the Nikonos close up lens, an Inon 165, and an extension tube set. Sorry, I don't have any Alpha or Minolta glass.

Any requests?

Am traveling the next two weekends, so won't really be able to do anything till after.


No particular request! just post some pictures when you're back and I will be interested about your opinion about the 30mm macro and the usability of nikonos options (with the peaking function for macro.
Thanks in advance
Marcell Nikolausz
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#16 Scubysnaps

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:47 AM

Did you try the peaking to focus with the rokinon jmauricio?
Cheers
Paul

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#17 Scubysnaps

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 05:55 AM

There is a talk that the newly released nex firmware fixes the purple haze in wide angle issue, so is not really a lens issue. apparently this was also the case with some WA leica's wider than 35mm.


I found a review on B&H, they said the "purple haze" is only on the 7 and not the 5, so hopefully it wont be on the 6
Cheers
Paul

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#18 Scubysnaps

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:58 AM

Just got this from Rokinon...

Hi Paul,
Thanks for contacting us.
No, we do not have plans for an electronically controlled version yet.
Unfortunately, there is no way to remove the purple tint. It only happens on the Nex 7. All the other NEX cameras do not have the issue.
Thanks & regards,
Morris Didia
ELITE BRANDS INC.
Cheers
Paul

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#19 jmauricio

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:42 AM

Did you try the peaking to focus with the rokinon jmauricio?


I did in the pool. But with the Rokinon at F11, the depth of field meant the entire field of view was highlighted red. My guess from playing with it, what I've read here on Wetpixel and heard from others is the to establish the correct working distance with focus at min working distance, then shoot with enough DoF that the entire virtual image is in focus.

B/c of my bath tub, I was actually not actually able to look through the viewfinder when shooting, which is why i staggered the exposures to see what the min focus distance was underwater. I think 2in (5cm) is safe.

Focus peaking will be much more useful for macro than WA.

Edited by jmauricio, 22 October 2012 - 10:46 AM.


#20 jmauricio

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:45 AM

Just got this from Rokinon...

Hi Paul,
Thanks for contacting us.
No, we do not have plans for an electronically controlled version yet.
Unfortunately, there is no way to remove the purple tint. It only happens on the Nex 7. All the other NEX cameras do not have the issue.
Thanks & regards,
Morris Didia
ELITE BRANDS INC.


The most recent NEX 7 firmware upgrade is meant to fix this. I upgraded over the weekend but have since returned the lens. I've read online that WA Leica glass was having similar issues. But, similarly, I don't have any to test it with.

I'm currently funding my NEX system with proceeds from my D7000 sale. if i have money left over, once i've bought all the essentials, i am strongly considering getting the rokinon.