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#1 l.babcock

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:39 AM

I am looking to purchase a new video system for video taping my divers on our group trips, I will be putting it on Blueray disc.
i was told at DEMA that the Hero 3 is capable of meeting my needs and it will compete with a high end camera. can anyone confirm this? If it doesnt what do you guys recommend. At the high end i would like to keep it around $8000 us for housing,lens and camera. I want high quality. The sony fx seris is on my short list but I want recomendations.I already have L&M sola 2000 lights


Thanks
Larry

#2 Oceanshutter

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:15 PM

Well the Go pro would certainly be below your budget. And a Sony fx would be defiantly be better than a go pro. You can get some decent stuff provided the right circumstances with the go pro. But overall I wouldn't say that the quality is that great. And you dont get a viewfinder, to see what you are recording. I am personally a dslr guy. If you ask me, it provides the best quality, for the lowest price. I use a canon 5d mark ii and it is great for wide angle stuff. But others on here have posted videos from other dslrs, and they provide equally as good video. Lot of people use a 7d. If you get a dslr, not only do you have a great video camera, you have a sweet still camera as well.

Having said all of that they are a little more difficult to use than a proper video camera. And the fx is probably more versatile. But, for me I would rather have the quality.
Hope that helps.

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#3 l.babcock

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:33 PM

Well the Go pro would certainly be below your budget. And a Sony fx would be defiantly be better than a go pro. You can get some decent stuff provided the right circumstances with the go pro. But overall I wouldn't say that the quality is that great. And you dont get a viewfinder, to see what you are recording. I am personally a dslr guy. If you ask me, it provides the best quality, for the lowest price. I use a canon 5d mark ii and it is great for wide angle stuff. But others on here have posted videos from other dslrs, and they provide equally as good video. Lot of people use a 7d. If you get a dslr, not only do you have a great video camera, you have a sweet still camera as well.

Having said all of that they are a little more difficult to use than a proper video camera. And the fx is probably more versatile. But, for me I would rather have the quality.
Hope that helps.

Dustin


Thanks Dustin, I was thinking about getting the Cannon 5d, I was told by other people also there was a major learning curve from going from an camcorder to a DSLR. I have been shooting a Sony HD for a while and I was wanting something with some better results with MWB. I have been spending too much time correcting at post because of color not where i wanted it to be.

Thanks

#4 Drew

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

Larry, those are loaded questions!
First of all, we all have different tolerances for quality. If you look at some of the numbers, the H3 is awesome. 45mbps @ 2.7k/1080p res in a box about the size of a matchbox is pretty impressive, as is the cine color profile and MWB. However, look deeper and you'll find the sensor is VERY small and that means no matter how good the processor is, the noise levels will not rival those of a 1/2"+ sensor HDR. And the MWB, unlike most camcorders, isn't 1 or 2 button pushes.
Don't get me wrong, The HD3 is awesome for the package but only you can decide whether it's good enough. I suggest you check out the quality on your big TV and see the difference. If you are ok with many of the docos and in car POV type shows on TV, the most likely you will like the GoPro. Since you dive though, the noise levels aren't great.
As for the FX, are you talking about the FX7/1000? Those are HDV and shoot at 1440x1080. The resolution is probably slightly above the GoPro's MPEG4 compression due to the slightly bigger sensor size. But they are huge and unwieldy and the housings even bigger. And they use HDV tape, which is a pain. The good thing is there are old 2nd hand systems lying around.
I do believe XR series is still widely covered by housing manufacturers. They don't give the prettiest picture but better in someways than a GoPro HD3. There's also the Canon XF series where housings are available as well. If you are shooting video, I'd get a proper video camera vs a DSLR. DSLR are nice but the resolution is not nearly as good as a camcorder.

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#5 Nick Hope

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

DSLR are nice but the resolution is not nearly as good as a camcorder.


Care to expand on that Drew?

#6 kkfok

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:13 PM

These are the vertical video resolutions of some camcorders/ cameras according to test by camcorderinfo.com/digitalcamerainfo.com

Panasonic HC-X900 950 lw/ph
Sony CX760 800 lw/ph
Panasonic GH3 800 lw/ph
Canon 5DM3 750 lw/ph
Nikon D800 750 lw/ph
Canon 7D 700 lw/ph
Nikon D4 700 lw/ph
Canon 5DM2 650 lw/ph
Sony A77 600 lw/ph
Canon T4i 600 lw/ph
Canon HF-G10 600 lw/ph

#7 Drew

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:37 AM

Thanks KK. And just to show that resolution isn't everything, the 5D3 and D4 look a lot softer than their numbers show. And the EBU testing shows the D4 to have more resolution than the D800 at 1080p. :)
I'm surprised by the HF-G10/XF105. It looks a lot sharper than 600 lw/ph. Ah well!

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#8 DeanB

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:19 PM

Didn't they ask for 'expert' recommendations???

Lol

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#9 Steve Douglas

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:52 PM

HSSSSssssss.....lol

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#10 l.babcock

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

What do you guys think about the cannon hfg10. they just dropped the price.

#11 Drew

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:33 AM

HF G10=XA10=XF105/100
If they've dropped the price then the next gen Gxx is coming out. The camera shoots well and the noise is very decent for 1/3" sensor.

If you were considering the 5D3, then an equivalent camcorder in that price range would be the XF100, NX70 and for a bit more the FS100. All these cameras have 1 touch MWB, peaking for focus etc etc. Things a DSLR won't have. Plus with the 1/3" sensors, the DOF is 7 stops deeper, which helps focus. The XF100 is also 422, where the color will be richer and less banding than 420. If your biggest complaint was the MWB on the Sony, check out the clips from the XF100 and see if you are ok with the color gotten from MWB. In another thread, a FS100 user says he's having trouble with MWB at depth over 50ft. Right now, it is possible that the Sony MWB program doesn't do so well in extreme conditions or it could be a hacked lanc issue for Sony. I should really get down to investigating this phenomenon.

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#12 l.babcock

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:43 AM

Thanks Drew,will the hfg10 put out some high quality video? I would like to keep the housing as small as possible with good results. i just bought a rebreather,now my budget is around $4000 , I can get into a gates housing with wide angle lens including the camera, i just dont want to be disappointed in quality. I haven't been too impressed with latest Sony line, to many green pixels and lousy MWB. which housing do you think is better L&m or gates. or should i put more money into the camera and go with less expensive housing like the equinox. Have to make my decision by monday. lol. Taking a group to Cozumel

Thanks
Larry

#13 Drew

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:08 AM

Well, high quality is subjective, Larry. I know there's quite a bit of G10 clips from underwater shooters. I doubt many try to do MWB at depth. Try a Vimeo/Youtube search. Comparing it with the XF100/5 is unfair as the codec is 422 on the XF. Check out the XA10, which is the equivalent. Also consider Mangrove as the housing.

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#14 l.babcock

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:31 AM

So far the video I have found for the Canon G10 underwater, I am not too impressed, here is a couple clips below.





Her is some video from my Sony , in which I wanted to replace because I am not satisfied with its quality also. It looks like I might have to spend some more money to find a better system



Edited by l.babcock, 24 November 2012 - 06:33 AM.


#15 l.babcock

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:36 AM

Here is a Cozumel Video I took with My Sony



Below another video from the Canon g10, It looks like it has the same green problem as my Sony



#16 Drew

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 07:28 AM

What exactly are you unhappy with besides the MWB issue? You think you want more resolution? Better colors?

Re the last video... maybe because the water was green? :)

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#17 l.babcock

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 08:53 AM

Thanks Drew, I guess I want it to have better resoultion,sharper, and color. I spend a lot of time underwater video taping, I would like to have better results with all the time and work I put into it. Am I being too pickey? I Guess I need a better camera to acheive the results I want,

#18 l.babcock

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 09:08 AM

Here is some video from the Cannon XF100, it loos green also





#19 Drew

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

Thanks Drew, I guess I want it to have better resoultion,sharper, and color. I spend a lot of time underwater video taping, I would like to have better results with all the time and work I put into it. Am I being too pickey? I Guess I need a better camera to acheive the results I want,

Beware you are judging video compressed for the internet, which lowers the resolution quite a bit. Plus the green could be the original color of water and/or the combination of WB on the lights, which can turn the water green. A lot of what you complain about in color can be fixed in post, if you learn to use software like Resolve. You will benefit from 422 codecs in post.
I suggest you go to a pro video store and test the cameras within your budget for resolution on a big screen. I think you'll find an exponential price increase for an incremental resolution increase. Check out the XF300/5 for a very high resolution 3x sensor camera and compare. Then again there's no housing for it AFAIK.
Also consider when you buy a fixed lens camcorder and you add a wide adapter, you will lose resolution. That's why people who shoot macro with a camcorder through a flat port often have better resolution video.

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#20 Drew

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 10:49 PM

You may also wish to check out the new HDMI recorder housings like the Nano flash. It will boost the bit rate and thus quality of the video significantly.

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