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Nikor 60mm Macro with wet diopter

60mm diopter

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#1 bgfspeedy

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 07:39 AM

Hey all,

I have finally decided to buy the Ikelite housing for my Nikon D7000 (cannot afford another brand and I currently own a DS160 and 161). However I went to a Nikon centre yesterday and tried out the 60mm f2.8, the 85mm f3.5 and the 105mm f2.8.
My preference goes for the 85mm but everyone is raving about 60mm. My concern is that using the 60mm for the macro that I want to do, I need to be at 5cm (2inches) from my subject whereas with the 85mm, I can be at double that distance from my subject. Now, I do not know very much about photography, but if I add a wet Subsee +10 diopter, will I be able to get a few more cm (or inches) away from my subject if I use the 60mm?

I will most probably be buying the Ikelite dedicated flat port for the 60 or 85mm. Is there a 67mm thread on those ports? If not, what diopter holder would you recommend? I don't really want to spend 500USD on a diopter holder.

Thanks so much for your support.

Ben
A Diver Once Said "A bad dive is always better than a good day at work!"

#2 Aussiebyron

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

Hi Ben.

I think your getting caught up with the whole true macro way of thinking.

True macro lenses are able to capture an object on the camera's sensor at the same size as the actual object (termed a 1:1 or 1.0X macro). Strictly speaking, a lens is categorized as a "macro lens" only if it can achieve this 1:1 magnification.

Your right to get 1:1 magnifaction you need to be 48mm away from the subject with the 60mm, 145mm away with the 85mm, and 154mm away with the 105mm. This is only to get 1:1 image size.

In its purist form macro photography is getting that 1:1 image size but honestly the macro term is loosely used for any close up photography which has higher magnification than 1:1. So most of the "Macro" shots you see are actually not True macro but a close up shot of the subject.

The 60mm Nikkor macro is one of the most common and widely used macro lenses due to a number of reason. Its versatility, ease of use, and cost make it most often the first choice of lens for underwater close up work. Most often the 60mm will do what is required for close up work on subjects which are not shy or move quickly ie Nudibranchs, slow moving shrimps and crabs, soft corals etc etc. For those than shoot more shy subjects which are hard to get close too like gobies for example, use 105mm with its extra focal length.

Ikelite do not have 67mm thread on their dedicated ports so if you want to go for the Subsee you will need its holder which comes at a cost often more than a lens.

For first time underwater Macro (close up) photographers I suggest you start off with the 60mm Macro (even the older AF-D) as its cheaper. Once you have mastered the 60mm and need more focal length then go for the 105mm. The 85mm is a DX lens and maybe the next camera you buy after the D7000 will be full frame so my advice is to keep away from DX macro lenses and stick with the tried and proven 60mm or 105mm lens.

Another option and also a cheaper one is that you buy the Nikkon 60mm AFD lens and use a teleconverter like the Kenko pro 300 1.4X. If you add this to the 60mm you turn it into a 84mm focal length but with an image size of 1.4x.........all you need is to find a port to fit it in and from memory it fits in the dedicated ikelite 105mm port.

Regards Mark
Nikon D7000 with Aquatica housing called "Deedee", Tokina 10-17,Nikkor 60mm, Nikkor 105mm, Sigma 17-70, Ikelite DS161

http://www.flickr.co...s/22898788@N04/

#3 spencerjb22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 02:28 AM

Hi Ben.

I think your getting caught up with the whole true macro way of thinking.

True macro lenses are able to capture an object on the camera's sensor at the same size as the actual object (termed a 1:1 or 1.0X macro). Strictly speaking, a lens is categorized as a "macro lens" only if it can achieve this 1:1 magnification.

Your right to get 1:1 magnifaction you need to be 48mm away from the subject with the 60mm, 145mm away with the 85mm, and 154mm away with the 105mm. This is only to get 1:1 image size.

In its purist form macro photography is getting that 1:1 image size but honestly the macro term is loosely used for any close up photography which has higher magnification than 1:1. So most of the "Macro" shots you see are actually not True macro but a close up shot of the subject.

The 60mm Nikkor macro is one of the most common and widely used macro lenses due to a number of reason. Its versatility, ease of use, and cost make it most often the first choice of lens for underwater close up work. Most often the 60mm will do what is required for close up work on subjects which are not shy or move quickly ie Nudibranchs, slow moving shrimps and crabs, soft corals etc etc. For those than shoot more shy subjects which are hard to get close too like gobies for example, use 105mm with its extra focal length.

Ikelite do not have 67mm thread on their dedicated ports so if you want to go for the Subsee you will need its holder which comes at a cost often more than a lens.

For first time underwater Macro (close up) photographers I suggest you start off with the 60mm Macro (even the older AF-D) as its cheaper. Once you have mastered the 60mm and need more focal length then go for the 105mm. The 85mm is a DX lens and maybe the next camera you buy after the D7000 will be full frame so my advice is to keep away from DX macro lenses and stick with the tried and proven 60mm or 105mm lens.

Another option and also a cheaper one is that you buy the Nikkon 60mm AFD lens and use a teleconverter like the Kenko pro 300 1.4X. If you add this to the 60mm you turn it into a 84mm focal length but with an image size of 1.4x.........all you need is to find a port to fit it in and from memory it fits in the dedicated ikelite 105mm port.

Regards Mark



Great info Mark.

I've just moved to a D600 and looking at the lens options. To start with i was wanting to use the 60mm + my 1.4 tc. I currently have the standard 60mm port with a Dyron adapter to use wet lenses.
I was initially wanting to use the 60mm + tc with the standard port.I have put the 60mm + tc in the housing with the standard port.
It seems to fit and all functions ok.

My question is, do you think there's an issue with this? it's quite close to the front of the port now and nearly flush. I've done some test shots and all seems ok? I guess I was looking to see if there's a technical issue with this? or do i need a certain distance from the lens to port front?

#4 cneal

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 03:53 AM

A diopter usually reduces the working distance, so if you are interested in using a diopter you would want the longer focal length.

#5 Aussiebyron

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:00 AM

Great info Mark.

I've just moved to a D600 and looking at the lens options. To start with i was wanting to use the 60mm + my 1.4 tc. I currently have the standard 60mm port with a Dyron adapter to use wet lenses.
I was initially wanting to use the 60mm + tc with the standard port.I have put the 60mm + tc in the housing with the standard port.
It seems to fit and all functions ok.

My question is, do you think there's an issue with this? it's quite close to the front of the port now and nearly flush. I've done some test shots and all seems ok? I guess I was looking to see if there's a technical issue with this? or do i need a certain distance from the lens to port front?


Need to know what setup your using to give an accurate reply. The only way to really know is to take it for a dive and see if it works.

But basically the 60mm AF-D with 1.4x TC will work with a port or port/extension combinations for the 105mm. Take into consideration that the 60mm AF-D extends a total of about 100mm from its flange when shooting 1:1 and using the TC like the Kenko which adds about 25-30mm length. So you might end up hitting the inside of the port glass when shooting 1:1.

Now that you have entered in FX you might have to rethink about what lenses you use giving that you do not have the 1.5x crop factor which you had if you shot DX before. The 60mm on a dx camera is like a 90mm on a FX. So that 100/105mm macro lenses are closer to what your use to with the 60mm on a Dx. I would be suggesting something like the 100mm Tokina macro (excellent lense which is often over looked and priced very well) or the 105mm Nikon. These will be your new favourite macro lenses. A 100/105mm with a 1.4x TC would be like a 105mm on a DX camera. Another option to think about getting the 200mm Macro nikon underwater (but this is an expensive big heavy lens).

More choices and more money to spend.

Regards Mark
Nikon D7000 with Aquatica housing called "Deedee", Tokina 10-17,Nikkor 60mm, Nikkor 105mm, Sigma 17-70, Ikelite DS161

http://www.flickr.co...s/22898788@N04/

#6 spencerjb22

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:56 AM

Cheers Mark, I have the Nikon 16-35mm and sigma 15mm for wide. Just the macro I'm looking at the moment and weighing up the options. I have the 60mm and a TC. Just think it's a work around solution and can't stop thinking I need to buy the 105mm.
Think in the short term I will play around with the combo in the standard flat port to see if it works, and then add the 105mm port at a later date. That way I have the ability to use the 60mm or 60mm + tc or the 105mm.

#7 johnspierce

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:59 AM

The 105 is of course 15mm more reach than the 60mm and TC combo, but the 105 hunts for focus more often and if you are fairly deep you will need a good focus light to get a lock with it. For that matter, I've found the 60+TC and +5 diopter locks focus easier than the 105.

However, if you need max magnification, 105 plus diopter is the setup.

I started with the 60mm, then added the TC, then added a 105 to my kit, then went with +5 and +10 diopters. They all have their legitimate uses, but the 60 is the most flexible since it is also great at midsize fish portraits.

Nikon D800 | Aquatica Housing | Inon Z-240


#8 rumblefish

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:48 AM

+1 for the 60mm macro if you're on DX. It's very versatile, I use it in combination with an extension tube and it gives me the opportunity to shoot fish portraits, small dioramas and macro in one dive. 

Switched to full frame now, had some fun this afternoon experimenting with macro setups. I learned that a reversed 50mm 1.8 on a Sigma 180 macro works well, see test shot below of the tip of a 0000 paintbrush (uncropped). Not sure how this would work under water though. 

Best regards,

--Rob

 

 

 

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  • macrotest-1.jpg

Nikon D600, Nikon D80, Tokina 10-17mm FE, Sigma 14mm, 24mm macro, Nikon 60mm macro, Sigma 180mm macro. Nauticam NA-D600, 45° viewfinder, Subal ND80, GS180 viewfinder. Sea&Sea YS350 and YS90. ULCS arms.


#9 buceo

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 11:19 PM

I use only the 85mm it's a good compromize and you can use a wet diopter, with it , with  60mm if you use Subsee the suject are to much closer of the lens, it's became difficulte to put your strobe and some fish or other are scared.

and with aquatica you can uses the same flat port of the 60mm







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