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I don't get it!


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#41 GeorgeH

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:34 AM

By definition it is cropping. Nikon calls one of the crop aspect ratios “DX crop” for example. If you select one of the crop modes prior to capturing an image you are making a decision to crop a portion of the full frame sized sensor.

 

If my intention was to frame loose and/or gain a greater working distance, I would choose to shoot full frame and crop in post rather than crop in camera for the reasons I mentioned in my original post. In my opinion, a shooter using this crop mode to meet requirements of a competition is not showcasing superior skill while meeting the requirements. The photographer is simply choosing a different approach or gaming the rules to achieve a perceived advantage. Not that I care to enter such a competition and have no dog in the fight.

 

The only reason I would choose DX or other aspect ratio crop options is to increase shutter speed while shooting down field sports where I always need to crop anyway before submitting images for publication or I need card space and a similar fast action scenario where I will need to crop. I shoot a D3S UW and D4s for sports and neither shutter speed or card space is ever an issue so I never use DX crop.

Just to clarify: Choosing DX mode in a, for example, D800, BEFORE the shot is not cropping IMO. Cropping in the camera AFTER the shot is the same as cropping at home :)

 



#42 TomR1

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

Scuba_Si

 

I have a general objection to exalting skill that are no longer needed. It is preserving the past in a world that is moving rapidly forward. There are certain skills that are no longer needed, even inferior, to current skills. I can crop more accurately and set white balance better after viewing the photo on my 24" screen.



#43 davichin

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:50 AM

By definition it is cropping. Nikon calls one of the crop aspect ratios “DX crop” for example. If you select one of the crop modes prior to capturing an image you are making a decision to crop a portion of the full frame sized sensor.

 

If my intention was to frame loose and/or gain a greater working distance, I would choose to shoot full frame and crop in post rather than crop in camera for the reasons I mentioned in my original post. In my opinion, a shooter using this crop mode to meet requirements of a competition is not showcasing superior skill while meeting the requirements. The photographer is simply choosing a different approach or gaming the rules to achieve a perceived advantage. Not that I care to enter such a competition and have no dog in the fight.

 

The only reason I would choose DX or other aspect ratio crop options is to increase shutter speed while shooting down field sports where I always need to crop anyway before submitting images for publication or I need card space and a similar fast action scenario where I will need to crop. I shoot a D3S UW and D4s for sports and neither shutter speed or card space is ever an issue so I never use DX crop.

 

LIke I said: "Just to clarify: Choosing DX mode in a, for example, D800, BEFORE the shot is not cropping IMO. Cropping in the camera AFTER the shot is the same as cropping at home". If you think it is the same as cropping at home, it is fine by me, but take into account that, in any case, it is a fixed and centered crop, very different from what you do at home.

 

It is just an opinion as yours; some people think one way and some the other. There is no good or bad, although I perceive some people don´t like to be talked as inferior skilled by cropping etc... It is not that, it is just that some people find more fun and admirable doing it in camera etc... This is a hobby, so everyone should just do it the way they enjoy the most...
 

I have a general objection to exalting skill that are no longer needed. It is preserving the past in a world that is moving rapidly forward. There are certain skills that are no longer needed, even inferior, to current skills. I can crop more accurately and set white balance better after viewing the photo on my 24" screen.

 

Well, so do I!!! :)   But many people find it more fun (and with a better sense of achievement) trying to nail it in camera. Is it really so hard to understand?


Edited by davichin, 05 March 2013 - 11:51 AM.

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#44 GeorgeH

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

If the goal is purity of in camera capture, why not shoot full frame and not use DX crop as an "advantage" over those not using it? As the original thread title states; I don't get it.

LIke I said: "Just to clarify: Choosing DX mode in a, for example, D800, BEFORE the shot is not cropping IMO. Cropping in the camera AFTER the shot is the same as cropping at home". If you think it is the same as cropping at home, it is fine by me, but take into account that, in any case, it is a fixed and centered crop, very different from what you do at home.

 

It is just an opinion as yours; some people think one way and some the other. There is no good or bad, although I perceive some people don´t like to be talked as inferior skilled by cropping etc... It is not that, it is just that some people find more fun and admirable doing it in camera etc... This is a hobby, so everyone should just do it the way they enjoy the most...
 

 

Well, so do I!!! :)   But many people find it more fun (and with a better sense of achievement) trying to nail it in camera. Is it really so hard to understand?


Edited by GeorgeH, 05 March 2013 - 12:34 PM.


#45 davichin

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

If the goal is purity of in camera capture, why not shoot full frame and not use DX crop as an "advantage" over those not using it? As the original thread title states; I don't get it.

 

Well, if you don´t get it, you don´t get it...


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#46 Aussiebyron

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 06:30 PM

Why do people talk about shooting DX images on an FX camera? Surely, if you use the whole frame, you get the strategy to crop afterwards, which can be very important when you have gutters, stand-firsts, headlines and body copy to consider. Is it to save space on the memory card. If so, why not get a bigger card?

I shot the 60mm macro on FX and gave myself space around my subject.

 

Back to the orginal posting.  There isnt a strategy of cropping in post production when your shooting ultra wide (weitwinkel) angle ie 10mm FE on Dx and 15mm FE of FX.  The whole idea of shooting that wide is to obtain that effect and cropping after the shot simply doesnt have any benefit to the final image. 

 

So comes the question I have been asking time and time again what is the image quality like of the Sigma 15mm FE shot in FX on the D800 compared to an image shot with the Tokina 10-17mm @ 10mm in DX mode of the D800?  It might be the case the Sigma 15mm FE has a lesser quality of image but alot of it which leaves you with a large file you dont want to crop but of a lesser quality?????

 

This is where that skill of filling 100% of the frame really comes into play. Some might say its a "Gone with the wind" skill but actually its as current as this mornings news. 

 

Regards Mark


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#47 E_viking

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 01:04 PM

@Aussiebyron:

I thought that it was clarified that the Sigma 15mm ( shot in FX mode) is better than a Tokina 10-17mm ( shot at 10mm in DX mode) on a Nikon D800.

I can't remember which review or wherever it was being discussed. Have I misunderstood something here?

 

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#48 Aussiebyron

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:40 PM

Erik,

 

There has been alot of discussion regarding the differences between shooting the Tokina 10-17mm in Dx mode and shooting the Sigma 15mm in Fx especially in Adams D800 review posting. But i havnt seen any clarification that the Sigma 15mm image other than image size is better than the Tokina 10-17mm. There has been a few examples on dry land showing that the Sigma has a slightly sharper image but as we all know it comes down to what type of dome you are going to put infront of the lens at the beginning of the dive which ultimately decides what the image is going to be like.  I would like to see that review if you have time to find it for me.

 

 Another interesting comparison i came accross is using the Tokina 10-17mm in FX and the 15mm Sigma FE.  http://www.uwphotogr...-fisheye-review

 

The author of the article didnt provide details of which dome he used which might give a different result with each lens but its interesting that they claim that there wasnt much difference between the lenses while shooting in FX with no vignette between 14-17mm. I would have like to see the difference between the Tokina in DX mode and the Sigma in fx mode.

 

If it is indeed correct that the Tokina 10-17mm is just as useful while shooting 36mp Fx on the D800 it would make the the Tokina 10-17mm a very valuable lens to use.  If you dont need 36mp you can shoot it in DX mode with the benefits of being able to use mini domes for CFWA and ease when travelling light. Shoot it for non cropping competitions. Also the ability to shoot high sync speeds in DX mode for those sunburst shots.  Then when you need to shoot FX zoom the Tokina 10-17mm to 15mm and continue using the D800 to its full potential.

 

Giving it the best of both worlds so to speak. 

 

Regards Mark


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#49 John Bantin

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:45 AM

If you use a longer focal length lens, what are you doing if you are not cropping in camera? You simply use a smaller part of the image circle for a given size sensor. As I have said before, optically speaking, it is the quality of the water that has most effect. The more water between the lens and the subject, the poorer the quality of a given shot.


Edited by John Bantin, 07 March 2013 - 06:45 AM.

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