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Filter or no filter?


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#1 MortenHansen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 06:37 AM

Hi everyone! 

 

What would yield the "best" colors:

 

1: Video with manual white-balance

 

2: Video with manual white-balance + red filter

 

Maybe someone has a couple of examples? 

 

Considering if I should get Mustards magic filters or something else, any other recommendations? 

I am shooting with a 7D and Tokina 10-17 (in blue water) so I guess I will have to stick the filter onto the back of my lens :/

 

 

Happy bubbles, Morten


Edited by MortenHansen, 23 March 2013 - 06:38 AM.


#2 Pete L

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

Are you using lights at all?

If not, manual white balance with red filter.


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#3 Drew

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

With the 7D, the white balance goes up to 14k 10k and thus highly adjustable. That said. It's a pain to MWB on DSLRs so I set it to one setting (daylight) and deal in post.
If you do a search in the forum, you'll find many threads regarding wb. It's really down to personal preference on the look of the video. Shallow wide angle benefits from the filter. 
The Magic filters are great because they are available for fisheye lenses, something URPRO and other makes don't have( that I knowof).

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#4 SimonSpear

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:40 PM

If you are using a 7D you really don't need to use filters. It works great white balancing off the palm of your hand or sand. It really is remarkable how well it white balances underwater without filters. I've got great rests down to 40m.

Cheers, Simon

#5 MortenHansen

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

Thanks for your replies! 

 

Are you using lights at all?

If not, manual white balance with red filter.

No lights, so far I have done manual white-balance without filter, just wondering if its actually gonna bring anything as I find the colors are quite good as they are as long as the conditions are ok and the depth is shallower than 10-15m. 

 

If you are using a 7D you really don't need to use filters. It works great white balancing off the palm of your hand or sand. It really is remarkable how well it white balances underwater without filters. I've got great rests down to 40m.

Cheers, Simon

Hi Simon, did you try it with filters for comparison? 

 

With the 7D, the white balance goes up to 14k and thus highly adjustable. That said. It's a pain to MWB on DSLRs so I set it to one setting (daylight) and deal in post.

If you do a search in the forum, you'll find many threads regarding wb. It's really down to personal preference on the look of the video. Shallow wide angle benefits from the filter. 

The Magic filters are great because they are available for fisheye lenses, something URPRO and other makes don't have( that I knowof).

I guess the way to go would be with Magic filters, just wondering if it would be worth it. I am just starting out with video, so post-proccesing is all russian to me (I am slowly learning though)..

 

I understand the basics of WB, have been shooting stills for a while now, just don't understand why the filter+MWB is better than the MWB with no filter..?



#6 Interceptor121

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 02:20 AM

The reason why filter may produce better results is that usually cameras white balance stops at 10,000k It can happen to have a colder light temperature in water, a filter will warm the light and bring it into the working range of the camera custom white balance. So in certain conditions you may get an advantage If your camera works over 10,000K for example 14,000K usually there is no benefit for a filter as the light temperature never gets to the point that the camera custom white balance fails

#7 MortenHansen

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

Thanks Interceptor, and everyone else, for your clarification/explanations! No need to go out and get myself a filter then! :) 

 

Happy bubbles, Morten



#8 kkfok

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:31 PM

I just read the manual of 7D and it is 2,000K to 10,000K, did I miss something in the manual?



#9 SimonSpear

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

Hi Simon, did you try it with filters for comparison? 

 

Hi Morten


Yes I'm normally an advocate of using filters, but honestly you really don't need them on the 7D. 

 

One thing the 7D does suffer from on both housings I have for it is lens reflection off the dome port and the filters I used magnified this to a large degree.  When I put the filters between the lens and camera the image quality actually dropped pretty noticeably if there was the slightest mark on the filter.  It was only after trying to use filters and getting frustrated with the results that I tried the 7D without and realised that I didn't actually need them!

 

Cheers, Simon



#10 SimonSpear

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:54 PM

I just read the manual of 7D and it is 2,000K to 10,000K, did I miss something in the manual?

 

It definitely only goes to 10000K on the preset controls but you need to use MWB to get the best results and I've never had a problem with the 7D when not using a filter when using that method.  It's head and shoulders better than any video camera I've ever used underwater when it comes to MWB results.  Of course it has other faults which are well documented!

 

Cheers, Simon


Edited by SimonSpear, 25 March 2013 - 05:56 PM.


#11 thani

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 06:19 AM

 
It's head and shoulders better than any video camera I've ever used underwater when it comes to MWB results.
 
Cheers, Simon


Simon, your new Sony PM200 will beat the 7D in MWB. I know because the EX1 was amazing :)
Best Regards,
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#12 Drew

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:04 AM

I just read the manual of 7D and it is 2,000K to 10,000K, did I miss something in the manual?

Yes that was my mistake. I was thinking of the Olympus I've been playing with the last few days when I typed that! Opps sorry!

 

Simon, doesn't the PMW200 go to 14k as well?


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#13 SimonSpear

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:45 PM

Drew and Thani  - yes the PMW200 goes to 14k as well I think (it certainly goes over 10k), but I did some side by side tests with the PMW200 and the 7D and the MWB results from the 7D were noticeably better than the PMW200 (again give me a few days and I can post some examples).  I'm not saying the PMW200 was bad and I was very, very happy with it, its just that the 7D was better.  IMO after filming underwater with the 7D for the last 3 years colour reproduction and MWB is the one area where it truly excels!

 

Cheers, Simon