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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera: Yes there will be housings!


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#81 EspenRekdal

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Posted 04 December 2013 - 01:32 PM

Wow, thanks for this. It looks like a black gem.
Three challenges with BMPCC:
1) fast wide angle lens,
2) Low light performance,
3) battery life (can be solved by Nauticam)

If size & money isn't an issue & If one to choose between BMCC 2.5k vs BMPCC, which one will win?

 

Well, 

1) Metabones converter for BMPCC makes your not so wide nikon slr lenses into allmost the same f.o.v as APSC lenses have and increases your light transmission by 1,67 stops. Problem solved I think, but also creates the need for a way to adjust the aperture ring on the Metabones speed booster. 

 

2) The above takes care of some of the low light issues?

 

3) Easily taken care of by adding a little space inside the housing or if need be a external battery enclosure. If you don't go this route you still have replaceable batteries that last about 45 min. Not ideal, but doable.

 

…or am I missing something?

 

E.


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#82 Drew

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 08:17 AM

Espen

1.   The metabones adapter has that tripod mount thing that makes it difficult to fit in a housing, unless housing manufacturers make an allowance for it.

 

2.   Even if it goes down to f0.7, nobody is going to shoot at the f stop because of the hyperfocal (eg. 20mm) is about 20m?  The metabones is great for terrestrial filmmakers, but the application won't solve the problems of noise, even on the S35 4k (if and when it comes out!)

 

Well, 

1) Metabones converter for BMPCC makes your not so wide nikon slr lenses into allmost the same f.o.v as APSC lenses have and increases your light transmission by 1,67 stops. Problem solved I think, but also creates the need for a way to adjust the aperture ring on the Metabones speed booster. 

 

2) The above takes care of some of the low light issues?

 

3) Easily taken care of by adding a little space inside the housing or if need be a external battery enclosure. If you don't go this route you still have replaceable batteries that last about 45 min. Not ideal, but doable.

 

…or am I missing something?

 

E.


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#83 EspenRekdal

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 12:16 PM

Espen

1.   The metabones adapter has that tripod mount thing that makes it difficult to fit in a housing, unless housing manufacturers make an allowance for it.

 

2.   Even if it goes down to f0.7, nobody is going to shoot at the f stop because of the hyperfocal (eg. 20mm) is about 20m?  The metabones is great for terrestrial filmmakers, but the application won't solve the problems of noise, even on the S35 4k (if and when it comes out!)

 

Drew,

 

1. The metabones tripod mount is removable. 

 

2a Not sure what you're saying with that first sentence, but as you are effectively using more area of the lens to project a image on the sensor you might also conclude that you have more light hitting the sensor for any given f stop. Now this might produce a very shallow depth of field wide open, but that was never my point? 

 

2b Not sure where this fits into a discussion about the pocket camera, but I would argue that you would get better low light capability with the 4K sensor than the 2.5K sensor all else being equal. i.e you resample 4K down to HD, which I think the majority of shooters are thinking. Now there is probably a penalty on the sensor due to global shutter with the 4k version so they (vs 2.5K EF mount) might come out around the same, but surely a BMCC MFT with a speed booster would give you more light.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but do have a look at the New (made for Black magic MFT cameras) speed boosters released on monday.

 

E.


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#84 CheungyDiver

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:14 PM

The new Metasbones looks neat. It cost half the price of the camera LOL....

 

Has any one have one of those Metabones miracle boosters? I have a BMPCC and a housing soon. I will probably need to mod a port to fit the new BMPCC Metabones rocket booster. Probably need to mod the housing to take a big battery pack. Even with two spare batteries this little Pocket cam suck the juices out of the battery in 20 mins. when recording raw.

 

I will be using some really fast Nikkor AI lenses. So far I am pretty happy with the DNG raw out of this camera. A real pain to process but for something under USD 1 K it is pretty amazing.

I welcome more f-stops from the Metabones. It will help with low light but near surface I think a variable ND will be needed.

 

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#85 thani

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 03:11 AM

IMHO, the shallow depth of Feild caused by fast lenses bigger sensors - is a challenge for underwater video. Even BMCC with sigma 1.8 18-36mm have that shallow depth which is still workable. With the super 35mm that shallow depth would be quite a challenge.
I agree with Drew that for land cinematographer hence they plan their focus pullers/crew and hence they shoot cooperative actors/actresses the depth of Feild is not a challenge for them and the shallow depths are desirable.
Unfortunately for us we did not yet reach that great level of communication between us and the sea creatures. And thus unplanned scene setting, manual focus and "exajarated" shallow depth of Feild is a pain.

Now their should be a balnce between good amount of light allowed by the lens and depth, is that feasible?
Best Regards,
Thani

#86 Davide DB

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 03:21 AM

After years of pointless debate someone is realizing that we are on wetpixel and most of land shots principles are not valid. underwater a littler sensor is better for better DOF. Most of the people arguing on low light problems shots in shallow tropical waters. LOL
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#87 EspenRekdal

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:12 AM

After years of pointless debate someone is realizing that we are on wetpixel and most of land shots principles are not valid. underwater a littler sensor is better for better DOF. Most of the people arguing on low light problems shots in shallow tropical waters. LOL

 

There has been many discussions on wetpixel and the good old uwphoto list about the differences between underwater and topside photo and filmmaking. I for one never thought of this as one of them. For me the distinction is drawn more between the type of footage you shoot. Why are the small chipped cameras like the Ex1 so popular with the documentary run and gun folks? You don't have to pay too much attention to critical focus and you'll get more keepers when things fly by fast...

A lot of average Joes are bying the pocket camera thinking its cool (RAW and all) but really don't understand what they are using it for... Most of them would be much better served with a real camcorder. They just ignore the advise of "right tool for the right job" tip because pro and RAW sounds better! 

 

For underwater small sensor size is a no brainer because as Thani pointed out you don't bring a dedicated focus puller underwater and marine life don't react well to instructions. + some dome-port issues etc.. But sometimes you'll ignore the benefits to just be able to actually get enough light. (for those of us that almost never find them selves in clear tropical water. :mocking: 

 

I've looked a bit more at the Metabones and I do believe that it acts exactly the opposite of a teleconverter. Increases light transmission, increase of sharpness, no depth of field loss. Anyone disagree?

 

Thani,

The super 35 will be more or less the same as any apsc or dx type slr puts out. More depth and more forgiving than a full frame slr but less light sensitive. It will be interesting to see what, when, if the BMPC 4K will do. As of now I feel that the choices of WA lenses for the 2.5K ef version is too limited. 

 

E.


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#88 thani

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:27 AM

 
Thani,
The super 35 will be more or less the same as any apsc or dx type slr puts out. More depth and more forgiving than a full frame slr but less light sensitive. It will be interesting to see what, when, if the BMPC 4K will do. As of now I feel that the choices of WA lenses for the 2.5K ef version is too limited. 
 
E.

Espen,
One reason I am interested in the housing because it can house both the 2.5k and the 4k. I am actually waiting for the 4k to solve the wide angle issue with 2.5k due it it's 2.4 crop factor as you mentioned above. I do have few EF lenses too as another reason. And I am hoping the 4k lossless compression brings the size of raw down. Hopefully similar or smaller than the 2.5k raw. Wishful thinking I guess. :).
But I will wait to see topside low light footage first. I hope it does surface before the end of 1st QTR 2014

Edited by thani, 06 December 2013 - 08:28 AM.

Best Regards,
Thani

#89 Drew

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 08:20 PM

Espen

Sorry, but my internet connection is intermittent and the tablet isn't suited for longer replies.

The whole 35mm vs smaller sensors discussion is always going to be about application.  Larger sensors have better noise characteristics and shallower DOF.   Great cinematographers use those strengths.  Close ups of talent etc are usually shot with shallow DOF.  Similarly, quite a few people use the cameras both topside and underwater.  That's why there was such a big thing about the ½" sensors getting S35 DOF for topside.

Still, with RAW/ProRes capability, the smaller sensors like the 4/3ish BM cameras have made the ability to capture proper correct 10+ bit clips without banding and other issues of H.264 and MP4.

As for the DOF "loss" issue, it's a CoC perspective that is relevant.  Similar to the MFT to APS to FF comparions, DOF doesn't change but perspective does per focal length.  I believe this was in the white paper on the Metabones booster. 

 

 

 

There has been many discussions on wetpixel and the good old uwphoto list about the differences between underwater and topside photo and filmmaking. I for one never thought of this as one of them. For me the distinction is drawn more between the type of footage you shoot. Why are the small chipped cameras like the Ex1 so popular with the documentary run and gun folks? You don't have to pay too much attention to critical focus and you'll get more keepers when things fly by fast...

A lot of average Joes are bying the pocket camera thinking its cool (RAW and all) but really don't understand what they are using it for... Most of them would be much better served with a real camcorder. They just ignore the advise of "right tool for the right job" tip because pro and RAW sounds better! 

 

For underwater small sensor size is a no brainer because as Thani pointed out you don't bring a dedicated focus puller underwater and marine life don't react well to instructions. + some dome-port issues etc.. But sometimes you'll ignore the benefits to just be able to actually get enough light. (for those of us that almost never find them selves in clear tropical water. :mocking:

 

I've looked a bit more at the Metabones and I do believe that it acts exactly the opposite of a teleconverter. Increases light transmission, increase of sharpness, no depth of field loss. Anyone disagree?

 

1.  I've used the metabones many times and I never knew that! RTFM Drew!

 

2.  Yes you get 1 ⅔ better T*, but DOF goes backwards with the 1.74x crop.  So even if you can shoot at ISO 250 for an equivalent , depending on shot, one may still have to roll back F* to compensate for DOF.  Not to mention S16 has diffraction issues which are exacerbated with the booster, since it is sharper.   As mentioned above, a shot you could shoot @ f11 (T5.6 light), now has to be shot at f16/22, where MFT shows quite a bit of diffraction.

 

Forget the S35 part, I was jumping between pages and I kept on typing!   Thought I sent the corrected post but obviously not, due to the slow internet.

 

I personally think the BMPCC is a great little B/C point and shoot camera, vs an A cam.   The advantage of the S16 sensor is the deeper DOF.  ISO800 has noisy.   It also will work well with macro due to the size and with lights, the noise issues aren't important.  It does make shooting non-moving critters through flat port at f4 or less for that dreamy background a lot less appealing. 

 

 

 

 

Drew,

 

1. The metabones tripod mount is removable. 

 

2a Not sure what you're saying with that first sentence, but as you are effectively using more area of the lens to project a image on the sensor you might also conclude that you have more light hitting the sensor for any given f stop. Now this might produce a very shallow depth of field wide open, but that was never my point? 

 

2b Not sure where this fits into a discussion about the pocket camera, but I would argue that you would get better low light capability with the 4K sensor than the 2.5K sensor all else being equal. i.e you resample 4K down to HD, which I think the majority of shooters are thinking. Now there is probably a penalty on the sensor due to global shutter with the 4k version so they (vs 2.5K EF mount) might come out around the same, but surely a BMCC MFT with a speed booster would give you more light.  

 


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#90 EspenRekdal

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:09 PM

 

2.  Yes you get 1 ⅔ better T*, but DOF goes backwards with the 1.74x crop.  So even if you can shoot at ISO 250 for an equivalent , depending on shot, one may still have to roll back F* to compensate for DOF.  Not to mention S16 has diffraction issues which are exacerbated with the booster, since it is sharper.   As mentioned above, a shot you could shoot @ f11 (T5.6 light), now has to be shot at f16/22, where MFT shows quite a bit of diffraction.

 

Forget the S35 part, I was jumping between pages and I kept on typing!   Thought I sent the corrected post but obviously not, due to the slow internet.

 

I personally think the BMPCC is a great little B/C point and shoot camera, vs an A cam.   The advantage of the S16 sensor is the deeper DOF.  ISO800 has noisy.   It also will work well with macro due to the size and with lights, the noise issues aren't important.  It does make shooting non-moving critters through flat port at f4 or less for that dreamy background a lot less appealing. 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, You will lose most by having to stop down to get more depth. At those super wide angles (8-16mm) will you have to stop down so much that you'll loose all your light gains to achieve workable depth? I need the metabones for my landscape shots only, and as such, the depth should be adequate at lower aperture values (I have no illusions about wide open!). The added lens surface contributing to the light hitting the sensor should at the very least buy me a half stop or so all else being equal or do you think I'm being to optimistic?

 

I'm not likely to house my pocket camera, it is as you say a nice B-cam and will se its use topside. However I do like the idea of the M43 BMCC in a Nauticam housing with a special aperture gear for the metabones speedbooster. It should be doable, just hook it up to the zoomgear for those wide shots!

 

E. 

E.


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#91 textilet

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 08:46 AM

It's out:
http://www.nauticamu...-pocket-ci.html

#92 Davide DB

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:57 AM

Is there some sample shot out there?


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#93 Video-Joe

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:34 AM

A happy and prosperous new year to all!!

 

It has been a super busy end of year and a big jump start to 2014 for Aquatica/Amphibico,  We have a dedicated engineering team for the new mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera housing division.  This being said we are proud to announce that are working on a new compact housing for the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera.  More details and press release to come.

 


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#94 EspenRekdal

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:22 AM

Hi Joe, great news! 

 

Will your housing make allowances for the use of the dedicated BMPCC metabones speedbooster? Extra battery solution?

 

Thanks,

E.

 


 

 

 


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#95 Video-Joe

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:13 AM

Hi Espen,

 

We will consider the metabones speedbooster housing compatibility as it definitely adds more lens flexibility,  we do want to keep the housing form factor as compact as possible.  Their will definitely be an auxiliary power solution inside housing.


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#96 Pepe EI

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:36 AM

Great news Joe!


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https://www.vimeo.com/jmei

JM Esteban-Infantes

 


#97 EspenRekdal

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:20 AM

I got my hands on a BMPCC not to long ago and last week I had the time to jerry rig one of my old film Nexus housings (a Nikon F100). These housings have two wheels to adjust aperture and focus/zoom so I could use these to adjust aperture and focus on a Sigma 8-16mm lens. I used a small glass dome and a standard adapter - not a speed booster.

I test shot the rig in a dark cloudy winter day here in Norway. Lens was set to wide open and Iso at 800, which seemed to be just right light wise. A small tweak in adobe camera raw and here is the result:

 

Aaargh! I'll need to upload this first.. stay tuned.


Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#98 EspenRekdal

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:40 PM

Lets see if this works:

 

http://webfiles.espenrekdal.no/#!home


Edited by EspenRekdal, 28 February 2014 - 12:45 PM.

Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...

#99 thani

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 08:51 AM

Hi Espen,

Nice composition. Very well let, I like the frames :). No artificial lighting I assume.
How good was the visibility?
My friend Sultan is asking you what the sea temp? He loves your country topside and he wonders if diving is as good?
Best Regards,
Thani

#100 EspenRekdal

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:03 PM

Hi Espen,

Nice composition. Very well let, I like the frames :). No artificial lighting I assume.
How good was the visibility?
My friend Sultan is asking you what the sea temp? He loves your country topside and he wonders if diving is as good?

 

Hello Thani,

No artificial lighting just natural light. To me this camera does very well in low light, with a speed booster it could do even better when needed. I'm not too sure about the 4K model though it seems to like more light than what we have this time of the year. 

 

About diving in Norway:

Visibility here is about 20m+ at this time but varies a lot depending on where you dive and what time of the year. Temperatures this time of the year range from around 0C to about 8C depending on where you dive. The outer coast being the warmest and the fjords being the coldest. Tell Sultan to bring his drysuit, he will need it! :-) I'm probably biased but I love diving in Norway and feel the diving is some of the best cold water diving in the world.

 

E.


Edited by EspenRekdal, 01 March 2014 - 12:07 PM.

Nikon D4, D3s, D2x, etc etc.. Nauticam housing, Inon z240s, Subtronic Mega Cs and housed Nikon Sb900s...