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9-18 with omd


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#1 becks0079

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:29 AM

I've seen information that the 9-18 lens is soft in the corners with the nauticam or zen ports. My understanding is that a larger dome port may help reduce this.

 

Since the olympus housing is compatible with sea and sea ports could one of their ports with this housing be the best combination?



#2 Ryan

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:24 AM

Zen WA-100-EP uses a small 4" segment of a nearly 9" sphere, so assuming we have it placed correctly, it will have the same corner sharpness as a 9" hemisphere.  Radius of curvature is the number that matters...


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#3 becks0079

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

What about macro setups with the rdx ports? is there a port compatible with the 60mmm macro lens but has 67mm threads? 



#4 Phil Rudin

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:28 AM

Becks,

I don't know of any adapter that allows S&S ports to be mounted to the Olympus housing for the EM5. Zen has an adapter for some of the ZEN Pen ports and Olympus has an adapter for the old DSLR ports for Olympus DSLR lenses with the M43 adapter. Who make an adapter for S&S Rex ports?

Phil

Edited by Phil Rudin, 21 May 2013 - 07:46 AM.


#5 Ryan

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:23 AM

This is confusing because the PT-EP08 port mount looks a lot like the Sea & Sea RDX mount, and there are adapters for Sea & Sea ports to that mount.  I've just tried an RDX Port Base L and RDX Port Base S from inventory and neither can be mounted, so there is some geometric difference causing interference.


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#6 becks0079

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

Thanks. BTW I've ordered the 9-18 zen port and adapter from you guys. 



#7 nikonscubadiver

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 07:26 AM

I've seen information that the 9-18 lens is soft in the corners with the nauticam or zen ports. My understanding is that a larger dome port may help reduce this.

 

Since the olympus housing is compatible with sea and sea ports could one of their ports with this housing be the best combination?

 

 

Zen WA-100-EP uses a small 4" segment of a nearly 9" sphere, so assuming we have it placed correctly, it will have the same corner sharpness as a 9" hemisphere.  Radius of curvature is the number that matters...

 

A 4" segment from a 9" sphere (4.5" radius) for a lens with a 62 degree viewing angle will vignette quite a bit so I suspect that the dome is not in the proper place and this is why you are getting soft corners. See the attached drawing. 

Attached Images

  • Zen Dome.jpg


#8 onewolf

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:19 AM

 

 

 

A 4" segment from a 9" sphere (4.5" radius) for a lens with a 62 degree viewing angle will vignette quite a bit so I suspect that the dome is not in the proper place and this is why you are getting soft corners. See the attached drawing. 

 

I believe it is a 9" RADIUS sphere.  What happens if you redo the geometry problem with a 9" radius?


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#9 nikonscubadiver

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:56 AM

Well it gets a lot worse kinda doubles. The dome would need to be about a 7" diameter to work properly. 

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  • Zen Dome-2.jpg


#10 Nicool

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:44 AM

hi there,

 

I don't understand why anyone going for a new Nauticam OM-D system with 9-18mm lens would buy the Zen dome instead of the dedicated Nautiscam 4" dome (which also works with the 12-50mm).

Plus the first post of this thread also say that they suffer from the same corness sharpness limitations.

Any clue?



#11 blibecap

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 09:34 AM

How well does the Nautiscam 4" dome preform and is tit really in the right place for sharp edges using both lenses? 


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#12 becks0079

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 03:00 AM

I had it wrong in my initial email. The problem was with the 10bar ports on their housings.

 

Also there are benefits to the olympus housing. The nauticam was going to be around $1700. There's not many local vendors for this gear and if you order it online you get hit with import taxes when it goes through customs. The cost of the olympus housing  was under $1000. Also my brother has the Epm1 and housing so being able to share ports is another plus.

 

I know one is aluminium and the other plastic but I've had the zx1 housing for 2 years and it's been fine and I reckon the omd housing will hold up at least as well.



#13 Phil Rudin

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:03 AM

I appears from some of the above posts that you have a few misunderstandings about the port systems for the 9-18mm Olympus M43 zoom lens.

Nauticam only has one port recommended for this lens, the four inch Nautican port.

Regarding ZEN Underwater ports, NO adapter is made for mounting the ZEN PEN ports to the Nauticam Mini housings. A ZEN adapter is made for Subal type III ports like the 100mm for use with the Panasonic 8mm fisheye on the OMD and other Nauticam housings. These are coated optical glass ports and that it the reason someone might want to pay more. ZEN also makes a 170mm glass port for the Nauticam Mini mount for use with lenses like the Panasonic 7-14,12-35 and Olympus 12 F/2.

ZEN also makes an adapter for mounting the ZEN PEN PORTS to the Olympus housing for the EM5 and a 100mm port that mounts direct to the housing for the 8mm fisheye and all are glass.

Regarding the ZEN ports on the Olympus housings the 9-18zoom port works quite well and does not vignette even at 9mm. The port charts above are wrong, first the lens is 100 degrees on the wide end not 62 degrees and lens placement is not correct and acts like a flat port not a dome.

For more info. Regarding the ZEN PORTS I suggest you go to ZENunderwater.com and do some research. Also checkout my photos in the gallery all of which were taken with the 9-18 zoom and the zen-100 port most at the 9mm end of the lens.

Phil Rudin

Edited by Phil Rudin, 18 June 2013 - 11:06 AM.


#14 nikonscubadiver

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:02 PM

I appears from some of the above posts that you have a few misunderstandings about the port systems for the 9-18mm Olympus M43 zoom lens.

Nauticam only has one port recommended for this lens, the four inch Nautican port.

Regarding ZEN Underwater ports, NO adapter is made for mounting the ZEN PEN ports to the Nauticam Mini housings. A ZEN adapter is made for Subal type III ports like the 100mm for use with the Panasonic 8mm fisheye on the OMD and other Nauticam housings. These are coated optical glass ports and that it the reason someone might want to pay more. ZEN also makes a 170mm glass port for the Nauticam Mini mount for use with lenses like the Panasonic 7-14,12-35 and Olympus 12 F/2.

ZEN also makes an adapter for mounting the ZEN PEN PORTS to the Olympus housing for the EM5 and a 100mm port that mounts direct to the housing for the 8mm fisheye and all are glass.

Regarding the ZEN ports on the Olympus housings the 9-18zoom port works quite well and does not vignette even at 9mm. The port charts above are wrong, first the lens is 100 degrees on the wide end not 62 degrees and lens placement is not correct and acts like a flat port not a dome.

For more info. Regarding the ZEN PORTS I suggest you go to ZENunderwater.com and do some research. Also checkout my photos in the gallery all of which were taken with the 9-18 zoom and the zen-100 port most at the 9mm end of the lens.

Phil Rudin

 

Phil 

 

I don't quite agree with your last post. Here is what I can see from the olympus lens  site. 

 

Focal Length 9-18mm (35mm equivalent focal length 18-36mm) Lens construction 12 Elements in 8 Groups, including 2 DSA lenses, Aspherical lens, ED lens & HR lens Angle of View 62 Degree Closest Focusing Distance 0.25m Maximum Image Magnification 0.1x (35mm equivalent Maximum Image Magnification 0.2x) Minimum Field Size 173 x 130mm Number of Blades 7 (Circular Aperture Diaphragm) Maximum Aperture F4 (9mm) - F5.6 (18mm) Minimum Aperture F22 Filter Size Diameter 52mm Dimension Diameter 56.5 x 49.5mm Weight 155g Box Contents Lens Cap(LC-52C), Lens Rear Cap(LR-2) , Instruction Manual, Olympus Worldwide Warranty Card

 

Are you saying that there is a mistake on the manufactures web site regarding the lens. Where is this documented ? 

 

I have viewed the zen site and see there statement that the dome increases the view to 100 degrees but that is not what my drawings reference. What the drawings reference is the placement of the dome in-relation to the nodal point (entrance pupil) of the lens.

 

How do you make a dome "acts like a flat port not a dome." ??? The only way I can figure that out is to heat up the dome and flatten it out. A dome underwater will give you a wider angle of view, hence the 100 degree view. Even tho the dome is not the correct correct dome for the lens ( it is either too small in diameter, too flat or incorrectly placed) there is no way it can function the same as a flat port. 

 

In regards to what zen port works with what housing, that is not my area of expertise. I was simply addressing the incorrect dome for the lens mentioned. 

 

I look forward to your reply with a detailed explanation and documentation of how and why my drawings are incorrect. 

 

Thanks

 

Roger


Edited by nikonscubadiver, 18 June 2013 - 12:03 PM.


#15 Phil Rudin

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:52 PM

Well Roger,

 

The Olympus site is half right, the Olympus 9-18mm lens is a zoom lens which means that it has more than one angle of view. It is 100 degrees at the 9mm end and 62 degrees at the 18mm end. I am guessing that if you did not grasp that that you need to do more research in regard to domes. The dome port does not widen the angle of view of the lens it just won't reduce it like a flat port will.

 

I am sure that Nauticam and ZEN know more about how a dome port works than most and these ports both from Nauticam and Zen are not incorrect for the 9-18mm lens. 

 

You really need to go back to the drawing board Roger because by your own drawing at 100 degrees about a third of the frame would be blacked out (vignetted) and that is clearly not the case in the thousands of images taken with these ports.

 

I can't speak for the 10-bar ports but I don't think they are as well designed and that they are more likely to have had problems.

 

Phil Rudin


Edited by Phil Rudin, 18 June 2013 - 01:04 PM.


#16 Yako

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:56 PM

Focal Length 9-18mm  Angle of View 62 Degree

 

Are you saying that there is a mistake on the manufactures web site regarding the lens. Where is this documented ? 

 

 

 

62 degrees is for 18mm lens position.

 

For 9mm zoom position  is 100 degreees

 

Olympus USA site information for 9-18mm lens is not completed.  It's only indicating 62º angle of view for 18mm...

 

Read this:

 

 


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#17 chris_l

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:56 PM

Obviously, I'm not Phil, but that is an interesting thing you point on the Olympus site.  It's obviously a misprint.   Notice that it only gives a view of 62 degrees for a multi focal lens.  It should obviously be a range.  If you look at dpreview of that lens it list it as 62-100 degrees.

 

On the olympus site look at the 17mm.  It is listed at 65 degrees.  The 12mm is 84 degrees.

Obviously a misprint on the 9-18.



#18 nikonscubadiver

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

Hi Phill
Thanks for the documentation showing the the olympus-usa site is incorrect. This is why we have these great discussion sites. I really appreciate the information and I did go back to the drawing board. I don't really want to go into a detailed explanation of the magnification effect of domes on lenses underwater but I do want to continue to explain what I can clearly see as a problem with the design.
 
However I would like to present the situation now that I have better information. The attached drawing is based on the information provided by Ryan earlier in this post.

"Zen WA-100-EP uses a small 4" segment of a nearly 9" sphere, so assuming we have it placed correctly, it will have the same corner sharpness as a 9" hemisphere.  Radius of curvature is the number that matters..."

and the statement that the dome does not vignette.

 

The green information is the ideal situation, a 7" segment of a 9" dome placed at the nodal point (entrance Pupil) of the lens.

 

The red information is the conclusion drawn from the information provided. 

 

Zen Dome.jpg

 

For more information on dome's you can look here: 

 

http://www.creativei...com/virtual.htm

Barry does a excellent job of explaining this dome situation. 

 

http://wetpixel.com/...-port-for-cfwa/

 

http://wetpixel.com/...-on-mini-domes/

 

I have nothing against Zen I am just trying to explain the orgional concern of this thread:

 

 

 

becks0079  Starfish

Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:29 AM

I've seen information that the 9-18 lens is soft in the corners with the nauticam or zen ports. My understanding is that a larger dome port may help reduce this.

 

 

 

 

Roger


Edited by nikonscubadiver, 18 June 2013 - 07:40 PM.


#19 Phil Rudin

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:36 AM

While I think the WWW. is a great tool, this thread was started without any support for the claim that the ZEN four inch port for the 9-18 lens had soft corners. Soft corners are common with almost ALL wide lenses regardless of dome size. So the issue should have been how bad are the corners.

 

Even worse is the fact that in post #12 becks0079 recanted his original post and said that his reference to soft corners should have been directed towards the 10-Bar port and housing system not the ZEN port. 

 

Third no matter how much dome theory is presented the real test is how well the lens/port combo work in the field. The port in question has been used in the field for several years now by hundreds with the 9-18, 14-42 and 60 macro lenses with great results.

 

I am far more interested in the reviews of those how have actually used the equipment than I am in how the equipment was designed.

 

My review of the ZEN 170mm optical glass dome port will appear in the next issue of UWPMAG.com and it includes photos using the Panasonic 7-14mm M43 zoom at 7mm with the Olympus E-M5 camera in the NA-EM5 Nauticam housing. At 7mm the lens has an AOV of 114 degrees. Zen also makes a port for the lens which uses the same four inch glass dome as the 9-18 port. Perhaps someone will be able to explain to me how the corners using the 170mm dome are better than the corners on full frame cameras using the 12-24 lenses at 12mm which have the same 114 AOV and are matched with nine inch+ domes.

 

Phil Rudin


Edited by Phil Rudin, 19 June 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#20 nikonscubadiver

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:47 PM

Phil 

I agree that most factory generic dome ports have soft corners. It's just like drug store reading glasses,  They work, some are fancier and more expensive but none are as good as a prescription pair. 

 

You seem to be very pro ZEN even to the point of defending them. I was wondering what is your association with them? Do you own part of the company? Are you on Ryan's payroll or just get good discounts?