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Blackmagic Cinema Camera (2.5k) EF/MFT mount price drop to $1995


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#1 Drew

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:40 AM

Well since the BMPCC is shipping and the 4k version is close to shipping, the 2.5k BMCC has officially dropped in price to $1995.  This new price is only for new and unfulfilled orders, according to BMD's Grant Petty's press release:

 

We have worked very hard over the last year to be able to build the Blackmagic Cinema Camera at a lower cost so we can reduce the price and allow access to digital filming to a wide range of cinematographers and photographers.

We have done it and from today the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT models will be reduced in price to US$1,995. This is very exciting and is one of the proudest moments of my life to be able to do this!

I think people will be able to use the savings to invest in some exciting lenses and rigs to really boost the creative possibilities. The Blackmagic Cinema Camera is a fantastic design that's now well proven. The advantage of the 2.5K sensor is it has enough resolution to eliminate the bayer resolution loss of a HD sensor, but when shooting RAW it produces files that are too not to big to store and work with easily. It's a fantastic solution.

All orders placed that have not yet been filled, can be reduced to the new lower price.


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#2 CheungyDiver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 01:01 AM

Desperation from BM for the 2.5K sensor cinema camera  now that 5MIII ML raw is out of the Genie bottle?

I don't understand their sales strategy at all. Late and I mean Red Epic/Scarlet type lateness and then when they finally ship they launch two more cameras and one under 1K the other even more resolution. Then do the whole lateness thing again but offer the older version at reduced price? Oh yeah the camera is proven design?  Well at least its not as bad as the Digital Bolex fiasco.

 

In truth it is not so easy to design a cinema camera from scratch. 


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#3 Steve Douglas

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:37 AM

At least it is a price drop and not raise.  Remember that when we were all waiting patiently for the Scarlet part of that was that it was supposed to sell for $3,000.00.  In the end, it was nowhere near as inexpensive.


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#4 CheungyDiver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:19 PM

True. But I got  the fifth or sixth BT Scarlet from RED. So not too far off from 1K per 1K pricing  ;) Then upgraded to Epic and had a blast. Still one of the best and exciting camera I have ever used apart from the Phantom Flex. Now waiting for the Dragon. If you have seen the trickle of images coming out of the RED fan club then there is something going on that will probably change the game again- at least at the higher end of the industry.

 

Back on topic. Black Magic Design 4K cinema camera  was impressive when I tried it at BCA, Singapore. At that price and if they BS less about delivery they would have clean up at that segment of the market. If they delay again then maybe another price drop heh heh as the market by then will be flooded with more BT Epic and Scarlets :)  The RED ONE (4.5K res) is a good example and last I check could be bought for 3K. Crazy times in the best sense of the word to be shooting very high res. video these days.


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#5 peterbkk

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:33 PM

I look at the BM 4K specs and drool.   Even the 2.5K with its great dynamic range sounds lovely.  And the lens choice...

 

But it is still unclear to me how useful these cameras will be for a typical underwater shooter.  Short of having a dedicated focus-puller swimming alongside, it'd be hard to get benefit from the better recording systems that these cinema cameras offer.  A one-man-band shooter like most of us would probably have to set the lens to a hyper-focal distance and hope the subject cooperates.  Thinking about the "good stuff" that we all seek underwater, most of it does not give you the time to go through manual exposure setting and focus setting pre-shooting steps.  That whale shark would be long gone before you are ready to record.  Pulling the focus during a shot while holding steady in a fluid environment sounds impractical.

 

Not a criticism of BM or Red as they have a clear market that they are going after.  Including auto-focus and auto-exposure in a multiple mount system was probably too expensive for them.  And not a requirement from their target market.

 

Maybe their stuff can be used for underwater "big team" filming.  I just can't see it for us "safari shooters"...

 

Is anyone building a housing that will help us overcome some of these challenges?  Like LANC functions in the handles for exposure?  Huge focus wheel with configurable click stops for some of the important distances?  Clear view of the monitor and access to the touch-screen controls?

 

Regards

Peter



#6 CheungyDiver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:43 PM

Hi Peter

 

There is a remote (or Lanc). If no one is making a remote control grip I may do it. All depends on interest and the time I have. I would wait for the active MFT mount or even get a drop-priced 2.5K to play with. How about in carbon fibre? Housing manufacturers have to consider using bigger batteries. Internal one is just too bad. 


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#7 peterbkk

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:22 PM

The frustration is that I keep getting glimpses of my next UW video camera but they fade away when I get into the details.

 

How likely is an active MFT mount in the not-too-distant future?

 

Yes, IMHO, carbon-fibre is the way to go:

  1. Light-weight, portable
  2. Strong and easy to seal
  3. Can hug the shape of the camera (use a 3D printer to make a camera-specific mould)
  4. Cheaper than most other materials
  5. Through-the-skin magnetic controls are easy to implement

Why haven't more manufacturers followed Bodo's lead in carbon-fibre?

 

LANC could go some of the way to making this "one-man" usable, at least for exposure control.

 

A really smart focus wheel would be the other.  I'd like it to have configurable tensile stops so, for a particular lens, you could feel that it was set to:

  1. minimal focus distance (for macro)
  2. hyper-focal for that lens
  3. infinity

I'd look at the 2.5K if I was sure that a 4K active MFT mount was in the pipeline and would fit the same housing...

 

Regards

Peter



#8 CheungyDiver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:51 PM

Okay all noted. Anything else? heh heh. Oled monitor that records HD proxies may be ;)


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#9 CheungyDiver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:03 PM

Drop in the price of camera does not automatically equate to drop in housing price unfortunately. The housing will cost more than the camera when it does come out. There is just no way housings will have the same economy of scale than for cameras used topside. Carbon fibre is probably more expensive to mass produce if the shape is not regular geometry e.g. Like a tube!  Plus its messy work. Gooey resin and hardeners. Sanding etc. Dusty and messy work. Parts for controls will need thickening etc. Machining is best for precise work. I know 3D printing is around but most 3D printed products is brittle and breaks eventually. Of course laser sintering could be used and then metal infusion but thats really too expensive right now. 


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#10 Drew

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 10:17 PM

Peter, the 4k camera has a S35 sensor. That pretty much kills the MFT mount.  Going with the BMCC, you'll love the DR from the sensor.  You should really rent one once the housing is available.  Or just go for the BMPCC when housings for that comes out. .DNG gives you more breathing space in post.  I hope to test it myself.

 

I think a bigger housing is necessary for any camera that uses manual focus.  The inherent stability of a bigger housing makes it easier to manual focus.   The unfortunate use of non-linear rings is why there's a line of cinema lenses with gears attached etc.  I know it's difficult to master but manual follow focus isn't too hard once you get the feel of the focus gear, provided it's large enough and the ratio is right.

David, like Ikonoskop, Digibolex needed to raise money to build a camera to sell.  At least they are as close to shipping as BMD. :) 


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#11 peterbkk

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:01 AM

Okay all noted. Anything else? heh heh. Oled monitor that records HD proxies may be ;)

 

I didn't realise I was writing the specification of my next camera. 

 

In which case, let me add:

  1. Hot purple color to match my Keldan lights
  2. Robotic tripod arm that automatically adjusts to the terrain
  3. Servo-motors and propellors so I can just send it after subjects and tell it to come back when its captured enough
  4. i'll think of some more...

:dancing:

 

Regards

Peter



#12 peterbkk

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:05 AM

I know 3D printing is around but most 3D printed products is brittle and breaks eventually. 

 

I was thinking more of 3D printing for making a mould.  You could shape it a few cms larger than the camera then use the mould for building up the carbon-fibre and applying the resin.  Then break the mould to remove it from the housing.  Could be good for one-off housings.

 

Regards

Peter



#13 peterbkk

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:14 AM

the 4k camera has a S35 sensor. 

 

I know it's difficult to master but manual follow focus isn't too hard once you get the feel of the focus gear, provided it's large enough and the ratio is right.

 

 

 

S35: I'm drooling again...

 

 

I was a manual focus guy all my life: Nikonos, Hasselblad, Leica, ..., but, as I get older I find manual focus just more difficult to see.  Hence my desire to have tensile click stops at some key positions on the focus gear.



#14 Drew

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 02:18 AM

Actually I still think if you shoot ambient above 15m depth in clean water of 10m or viz in good light, I think the MFT 2.5k is good enough @ 800ISO.  It gives back 2 stops of DOF and is plenty sharp for 2k output.  The 4k is great if you want to go serious wide, with so many choices of fisheye and rectilinear zooms which are super wide.  But focus will be more crucial, which isn't easy for the over 40s, presbyopic crowd! :)


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#15 pmooney

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 03:25 AM

  The 4k is great if you want to go serious wide, with so many choices of fisheye and rectilinear zooms which are super wide.  But focus will be more crucial, which isn't easy for the over 40s, presbyopic crowd! :)

 

This is exactly my problem - glad to see the BM folks have something for the ageing manual focus crowd.

 

From the manual :

 

 

Focus Button

 

 

The FOCUS button allows you to sharpen the images without affecting your recorded picture, as it creates a peaking edge around the sharpest part of the image to confirm focus.

 

 

To turn on, press the FOCUS button located near the top-right of the touchscreen.

The FOCUS button turns on focus peaking, which highlights the edges in your scene that are in focus and helps you get accurate focus when using manual lenses.

 

 

Focus Zoom - Double Tap

 

 

Double tap the touchscreen display to zoom into the image to help you adjust focus at the 1:1 pixel scale. Double tap the display again to zoom out. 



#16 thani

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:56 AM

Going with the BMCC, you'll love the DR from the sensor.  You should really rent one once the housing is available.  Or just go for the BMPCC when housings for that comes out. .DNG gives you more breathing space in post.  I hope to test it myself.
 

Drew, I could drop you guys some DNG files shot by Sultan's custom housing and the 2.5k BMCC. Just tell me where to post them :)
I believe the dynamic range is still retained to a great degree.

Peter, Sultan has a follow focus installed ;) but the peaking function is not that clear underwater due to bad choice of "no color" or only highlights. My EX1 peaking can be adjusted to a different color with different intensity like hot red and it is quite visible.

BTW, the Autofocus button on the pocket cam is working properly with active MTF lenses. It actually focuses. I think it is a killer feature for people like us Peter. They could easily update the active EF mount to do the same.

Edited by thani, 03 August 2013 - 06:02 AM.

Best Regards,
Thani

#17 Drew

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 11:53 AM

Can the nauticam housing do LCD actuation anywhere on the screen?

 

 

This is exactly my problem - glad to see the BM folks have something for the ageing manual focus crowd.

 

Focus Zoom - Double Tap

 

 

Double tap the touchscreen display to zoom into the image to help you adjust focus at the 1:1 pixel scale. Double tap the display again to zoom out. 

 

 

Thanks Thani,  You can load .dng files in the posts I believe.  

Drew, I could drop you guys some DNG files shot by Sultan's custom housing and the 2.5k BMCC. Just tell me where to post them :)
I believe the dynamic range is still retained to a great degree.


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#18 thani

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:12 PM

Thanks Thani,  You can load .dng files in the posts I believe.

I think there is a limit on uploading files/images of 1000k? Those DNG files are around 5 MBs.
Is there another way?
Best Regards,
Thani

#19 pmooney

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:43 PM

Put them in a public drop box folder 



#20 CheungyDiver

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 07:45 PM

Actually I still think if you shoot ambient above 15m depth in clean water of 10m or viz in good light, I think the MFT 2.5k is good enough @ 800ISO.  It gives back 2 stops of DOF and is plenty sharp for 2k output.  The 4k is great if you want to go serious wide, with so many choices of fisheye and rectilinear zooms which are super wide.  But focus will be more crucial, which isn't easy for the over 40s, presbyopic crowd! :)

 

"Presbyoptic" ??.....Are you a presbyterian? Heh he

 

Yes Thani- drop box and other free cloud share sites will work. I would like to see how the DNG file looks after color correction.

 

cheers

David


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