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#1 uwxplorer

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:21 PM

I am a complete amateur and beginner in underwater video and as a matter of fact got busy learning how to rebreath during the past few months, so not much into video filming lately.

Imagine my surprise when I got a YouTube request from a producer at the BBC asking whether he could use some of my footage for their program.

The show is called "Nature's Weirdest Events" and they are apparently relying on a lot of YouTube footage (if not exclusively).

The conditions offered to me were far from generous but OK with me.

I am pasting them here for your review:

 

-----------------------------------

I understand that you have kindly supplied  the footage  “pyrosome-Garibaldi encounter footage”, which we intend to include in the above programme.  I am writing to thank you for this appreciated assistance and to confirm that:

 

i)    You hereby grant the British Broadcasting Corporation (“the BBC”), BBC Worldwide Limited and its/their licensees and assigns the non-exclusive right by way of a licence to use the Material for all purposes (including use in all media now known or which may hereafter become known) throughout the world for the full period of copyright and any extensions, revivals and renewals thereof; 10 years – clearable for a further two years  

ii)  There shall be no obligation on the part of the BBC to use the Material or any part thereof;

iii) You warrant that the Material is original material of which you are the sole owner and that the exploitation of the Material by the BBC shall not violate or infringe the copyright or any other rights of any third party and you shall hold the BBC harmless in respect of the same;

iv) In recognition of the needs of television production you hereby grant to the BBC the unlimited right to edit copy add to take from adapt or translate the Material

v)   Except as described above, any proposed use of the material within subsequent BBC broadcasts or further distribution of the above programme will require separate consent and possible payment to be agreed as and when applicable. The copyright of the footage remains entirely yours. You are simply allowing the production a non-exclusive licence to feature your footage in this one programme only     

vi) In recognition of your contribution the production will – pay you the sum of $80, credit your footage on the programme’s website, provide a copy of the programme featuring your footage  

 

If this is acceptable, please would you complete the section below and return this letter to me.  Thank you again for your help and co-operation in this matter.

------------------------------

 

Now what I found surprising is that after having briefly discussed the basics (OK for them to use my footage for a 1) one time $80 payment, 2) credit in the programme and 3) copy of the programme sent to me), I was sent a request to upload the file without even been sent any kind of contract. The text above was sent to me by email after I requested it as a pre-condition for me to upload the file. Lots of the wording came out of nowhere as far as I am concerned, as we only add briefly agreed on the 3 points above.

 

Once again, I am not in this for money, fame or recognition, but simply a bit surprised by this being the practice of a BBC producer.

Note that I did not remove the BBC letter head, there were none, simply the name and title of the producer (which I removed) and a BBC disclaimer at the end. Not even as a PDF attachment, but in plain text within the body of the email...

 

Any comment would be appreciated.

 



#2 MikeVeitch

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:56 PM

Congrats on the sale, must be some good footage.  However, $80 is way too low, how long of a segment are they requesting? 

It should be more about $40-$50 per second with a minimum amount of seconds, 30 is not unheard of (even if you only have 10 seconds, should charge for 30)

 

And yes, I would request more of a written contract with your and their signature on it, that way if they sell to a third party you can cover your bases etc


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#3 RWBrooks

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 04:36 AM

I would follow up on the contract but also nurture the relationship. Being paid is a good step that many dream of, especially from a entity such as the BBC. I agree with Mike regarding the details but it's a good first step. Obviously you have something good there.

 

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#4 uwxplorer

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:26 PM

Congrats on the sale, must be some good footage.  However, $80 is way too low, how long of a segment are they requesting? 
It should be more about $40-$50 per second with a minimum amount of seconds, 30 is not unheard of (even if you only have 10 seconds, should charge for 30)
 
And yes, I would request more of a written contract with your and their signature on it, that way if they sell to a third party you can cover your bases etc

Not sure I can change my mind about that... And we haven't discussed length, but the sequence on YouTube is a couple of minutes long (a single shot in fact).

The producer was upfront with "we can't do more than $80". I obviously don't want to make it harder for pros to make a living (that would be thou, not the BBC).
Thanks for the feedback.


I would follow up on the contract but also nurture the relationship. Being paid is a good step that many dream of, especially from a entity such as the BBC. I agree with Mike regarding the details but it's a good first step. Obviously you have something good there.
 
Thanks.
I don't think the footage is anything special, but you can check it out at:




Edited by uwxplorer, 16 November 2013 - 08:28 PM.


#5 decosnapper

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:16 AM

Just a few observations:-

 

BBC Worldwide Limited is a revenue generating enterprise. Like the producer who contacted you, they are in it for the money.

 

There is the often overlooked option of saying "No thanks" and walking away from any deal that fails to negotiate to a rate that is equitable to both parties. If they really want it, they will find more money.

 

By signing the contract, you are accepting liability for any issues the footage causes. I would not be indemnifying the BBC - their legal team is large and in my experience not very friendly.

 

Note the subtle moral rights dodge...you only get credited on the website. The broadcast edition will not credit you at the end of the reel.


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#6 Drew

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:20 AM

In my dealings with the BBC NHU, they've been super up front and paid topish dollar for all clips from me.  They credit in the main programs (unless I ask it not to be so) and even when they don't use the clips, they pay.

I agree with Simon that the language in the excerpt leaves a few things out.  I would find out more about how the clip will be used.   It could be just for the promo trailer that's not included in the main program.  

 

Nature's Weirdest Events is a BBC2 program with Chris Packham, so it is for broadcast.  $80 for broadcast is pretty pathetic, even in this day and age of internet clips.  However, if you are happy to supply, that's your choice. If it's a unique clip, I'd raise the price.  


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#7 Ferg42

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:45 AM

At least it's some money. I was just approached yesterday by a company making a show for Canadian channel TV5 and they offered me zip for my clips- just a nice credit!

I won't be taking them up on their generous offer...


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#8 uwxplorer

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 10:08 PM

Thanks all for the feedback. Never watched the program and never will and I don't think that much of my own footage, but if this happens again, I will be ready!

#9 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:31 AM

Just another point/thought, if you went with the text as written, then it reads to me as though you've provided a license to the BBC to use your footage on any program they like for ten years (as opposed to the license being confined to just The Program)... So they are now able to use the footage as many times as they wish, in as many programs, in whatever way without ending to chat to you again.
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#10 uwxplorer

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:25 PM

That is certainly a possibility... And I may add that if I ever lose the original footage, I will never be able to enforce my rights, not mentioning that if I stop using the email address the exchange took place through...etc, etc.
Probably one more reason I will stick to doing things I like as a mere hobby, and never try to make a living out of them!

#11 decosnapper

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:47 PM

That is certainly a possibility... And I may add that if I ever lose the original footage, I will never be able to enforce my rights, not mentioning that if I stop using the email address the exchange took place through...etc, etc.
Probably one more reason I will stick to doing things I like as a mere hobby, and never try to make a living out of them!

 

Even if you lost the original, you would be able to assert your rights. True, it might be harder without the original but the onus is always on the publisher to demonstrate they have a right to use.

 

I'm frequently asked to prove the image is mine. Its almost like a first line of defence by the infringer, but as a defence its a chocolate tea cup. My reply is succinct; At their cost I will visit a solicitor (attorney) and sign a statement asserting ownership, or I will make a declaration of truth on court papers to the same effect. Both methods expose me to civil and criminal proceedings if I am lying and this normally is a sufficient declaration of intention for anyone who might doubt the claim.

 

Oh and yes keep the paperwork. It can become priceless. 


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#12 racharach

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 09:24 AM

I am just curious how this panned out? I received a similar request via YouTube (same kind of "contract" and price).

 

My biggest concern is giving them my address ("to send the DVD" of the program) and bank details ("for payment"). The words "bank details" just raises a red flag for me, even though, yes, the emails are coming from a bbc.co.uk account.

 

I am no aspiring videographer and the footage is nothing I would have ever considered selling so I am fine with just accepting the $80, but I am uncomfortable giving out information. I was thinking of asking if they could do it via PayPal or something instead, but I was interested to hear how this worked out for you?



#13 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:17 AM

I am just curious how this panned out? I received a similar request via YouTube (same kind of "contract" and price).

 

My biggest concern is giving them my address ("to send the DVD" of the program) and bank details ("for payment"). The words "bank details" just raises a red flag for me, even though, yes, the emails are coming from a bbc.co.uk account.

 

I am no aspiring videographer and the footage is nothing I would have ever considered selling so I am fine with just accepting the $80, but I am uncomfortable giving out information. I was thinking of asking if they could do it via PayPal or something instead, but I was interested to hear how this worked out for you?

 

Fraudsters, phishers and the like do not have the ability to divert emails addressed to a bonafide domain, so if you email a @bbc.co.uk address, then it will go to somebody within the BBC. 


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#14 uwxplorer

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:46 PM

I have provided the requested info as an attachment, which they say they will not keep a copy of.
Nothing has happened one week later. I am not in a rush...

#15 TheRealDrew

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:24 AM

Just another point/thought, if you went with the text as written, then it reads to me as though you've provided a license to the BBC to use your footage on any program they like for ten years (as opposed to the license being confined to just The Program)... So they are now able to use the footage as many times as they wish, in as many programs, in whatever way without ending to chat to you again.

 

The language looks a bit loose there to me also a few reasons.  Some may be custom/language differences from U.K. and U.S., but since you also see issues, probably not.   It may also be that the email was more of a general bullet point concept, subject to a more formal document.



#16 uwxplorer

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 12:48 PM

The formal document was pretty much the same as the one I posted above. This is my little contribution to upholding the quality of BBC productions for years to come...

:-)

PS: I received the payment but am still waiting for the DVD of the show...



#17 Marjo

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 06:43 AM

It is totally OK to get back to them, state your interest, but come with a counter offer on the price. Seriously, $80 is not OK, and adding two zeros to that number won't break their bank. You have unique footage that is valuable to them. If it wasn't, they would never have asked you in the first place. BBC is not s small mom-pop shop and ths is not a non-profit do-good cause. Be proud of what you have, nurture the relationship but dont sell yourself short.