Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Final Cut Pro 10.1


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:33 AM


http://www.apple.com...-pro/whats-new/

4K editing done properly.

Regards
Peter

#2 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 19 December 2013 - 08:08 AM

LOL   Still iMovie Pro and now released  as an update for that upgrade to the new Mac Pro.  There are quite a few improvements and features that are worth mentioning like the Optical Flow time remap and the media management is fantastic.  Multicam is really quite intuitive.

Have you tried editing any 4k material with 10.1?  4k is sloth like with older machines natively.  Even DSLR h.264 needs to be "optimized" to ProRes to be smooth with intensive post work.   This model of upgrade with the machine is flawed, as is the Adobe Cloud service.  Hmmm media composer 7 is still viable! :)


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#3 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:40 PM


Despite some people's cynicism :) , I'll be upgrading as soon as I get back from this trip. For anyone building a large library of work, the new library features look excellent.

http://www.kenstone....0_1_martin.html

Regards
Peter

#4 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:58 AM

Just saw for a demo of 4-6k RAW native editing on a new Mac Pro.  Without the Red Rocket, you can't use Best Quality setting on the playback with effects.  Then again, with Best Performance and 12GB of VRAM, it played at probably ¼-⅓ quality even with lots of effects thrown in.  This is without background rendering.  
I'm still not convinced to switch back to FCX, especially if I have to fork out over $14k for a new system with SAN and thunderbolt PCIe chassis for the Red Rocket and other cards.  WIN PC seems so attractive. It's sad.


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#5 A.Y.

A.Y.

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 195 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 January 2014 - 11:40 AM

A blog on Mac Pro + FCP 10.1. The video at the bottom of the page shows the system playing back a RED RAW 4K clip with 18 effects applied.

 

In a high-cost Hollywood studio environment, the cost of a Mac Pro + FCP10.1 system can be recovered if it reduces 15 hours of labor from a project.


Edited by A.Y., 20 January 2014 - 07:36 PM.


#6 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:03 AM

AY, as I mentioned, that is possible when set at "Best Performance", which means there is a quality drop in the preview.  Any hollywood production house plans on equipment purchase and it remains to be seen if they are going to go back to FC after Apple drops XSAN, Final Cut Server and other tools.   Libraries etc is a great way for media management  but Avid's Unity is the closest thing to multi-access assets. Then there's the 3G-SDI cards all having to be tossed or accessed through Thunderbolt and a PCI-E chassis, it's not so much a space save anymore. 10.9.1 is problematic as well.

No doubt FCX has improved in speed and functionality and can do well in smaller firms or firms which work online fully (that is, no need to output to media). Will FCX be a fixture in bigger "Hollywood" production houses? Well we'll have to see in the next few years.  Obviously given time, FCX will continually improve to the point it  will have the features necessary for most.  The others will hopefully have improved as well by then.  Improve or disappear! :)


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#7 A.Y.

A.Y.

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 195 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

FCPX out sold all previous versions combined, so there are actually more FCP users nowadays. I like it because I get things done faster with it and that's enough of a reason for me - time = money after all. BTW, Mac Pro is not only designed for 4K editing, it's also good for lots of 3D tasks like animation etc... Finally, Mac Pros can fit inside carry-on bags so for a lot of people whose works cannot be adequately handled on laptops no more worring about bulky desktops being lost or damaged on business trips.


Edited by A.Y., 22 January 2014 - 12:23 PM.


#8 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:37 PM

I love some of the new 10.1 features.

The library concept is great. It only took me a couple of hours to rearrange 9Tb / 15 years of video and projects into the new structure. Not only has it made everything much faster, the risk of losing media is much less. Also means my backup plan is much simpler as I just need to ensure that no one library gets larger than my largest backup drive and then set ChronoSync to backup by library.

Project snapshots will help me sleep better at night.

And being able to see which clips and which parts of clips are used in a project is also very useful. I don't know any other NLE that has this "used media ranges" feature. Maintaining multiple selections within one clip helps a lot. I will never accidentally use the same piece twice nor will I get to the end of the project and say, "damn, I've left out that great bit of footage that I marked as a favorite at the beginning of the editing" - every clip that has a green "favorite clip range" line should also have an orange "used clip range" line.

Rolling audio edits will save time with overlapping audio and the active clip indicator is a nice feature that helps make sure you apply edits in the right place.

All-in-all, a nice update...

Regards
Peter

#9 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:10 AM

FCPX out sold all previous versions combined, so there are actually more FCP users nowadays. I like it because I get things done faster with it and that's enough of a reason for me - time = money after all. BTW, Mac Pro is not only designed for 4K editing, it's also good for lots of 3D tasks like animation etc... Finally, Mac Pros can fit inside carry-on bags so for a lot of people whose works cannot be adequately handled on laptops no more worring about bulky desktops being lost or damaged on business trips.

Of course it did, it's priced at ⅓ of what it use to be as FCS.  Price drop = bigger sales.  After all, it's iMovie Pro so it's like an upgrade from iMovie! LOL

 

However, if one looks at the numbers in detail, the new Mactube Pros don't really warrant a buy.  What Mavericks and 10.1 bring to the table is dual GPU action for programs like Resolve etc.  So older Mac Pros can now be equipped with dual GPUs and gain the extra power of dual GPU and still have a spare PCIe slot or 2 for other peripheries.   Motion 5.1 has jumped big time in render speeds as well.  Even single GPU numbers are improved.  A retest of rendering speed will be interesting to see how it compares to AMC, CC etc.


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#10 A.Y.

A.Y.

    Wolf Eel

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 195 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 January 2014 - 02:40 PM

This is what many of the "Mactube Pros" in the entertainment industry use "iMovie Pro" (FCPX) and Mac Pros for: Pixar Uses Mac Pro To Make Beautiful Movies

 

I like iMovie Pro's (FCPX) Library feature also! Thanks for the heads up!


Edited by A.Y., 23 January 2014 - 04:21 PM.


#11 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:57 PM

After all, it's iMovie Pro so it's like an upgrade from iMovie! LOL

 

However, if one looks at the numbers in detail, the new Mactube Pros don't really warrant a buy. 

 

Hi Drew,

 

Are you ever going to tell us the story of how your irrational feelings of hatred for Apple first started.  Something in your early childhood maybe?  :)

 

Regards

Peter



#12 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:59 AM

 

Hi Drew,

 

Are you ever going to tell us the story of how your irrational feelings of hatred for Apple first started.  Something in your early childhood maybe?   :)

 

Regards

Peter

 

Hehe, since when did production houses become product endorsers? :) Pixar will always be Apple centric for obvious reasons.  Most of their programs (Renderman/MARI) are written for the Mac with Maya in mind. However, Pixar also sells those programs for Linux and Windows because the industry demands it.
The market is very broad now that "pros" are difficult to categorize, thanks to the liberating technology of cheaper RAW cameras.  

 

This is what many of the "Mactube Pros" in the entertainment industry use "iMovie Pro" (FCPX) and Mac Pros for: Pixar Uses Mac Pro To Make Beautiful Movies

 

I like iMovie Pro's (FCPX) Library feature also! Thanks for the heads up!

 

 

Pete, quite the contrary. I like Apple products, but that doesn't mean I've stopped looking for better products that help me be more productive and also have better value.  Obviously that's very subjective but some facts are undeniable.  I'm just analyzing for shortcomings as we all know, no product is perfect and definitely doesn't fit everyone.  Name calling jest aside, one can't deny the underpinnings of FCX's interface is from iMovie, and that at launch, it was so limited in use that it couldn't even use FCP 7's old projects.  It was also slower on render and the features was so lacking for pro users that many shifted to Adobe et al.  Most working pros can't wait for 3 years for a program to mature.  But they can also revisit the program at that time.
Adobe is hardly perfect but it does render faster and has a gentler curve in GUI change.  It was also doing 4k earlier than FCX. Avid is still entrenched as the major player but as the market changed, it has lost ground in the digital arena.

Basically, in a forum, having all the information to make a decision is important.  An older Mac Pro with dual GPU is pretty much rendering as fast as a MacTube Pro for many production applications.  Obviously when programs like Maya, AEFx, Compressor etc which use all cores and memory will the newer E5s make a significant difference.  So there's no need to rush out and buy a Mactube right now, especially if there are legacy products needed like 3G-SDI, Red Rocket PCIe cards etc.


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#13 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:36 PM

Like a lot of things Apple, FCPX seems to polarise people into those that love it and those that proclaim to hate it.

 

But, having made the paradigm shift from FCP7 and Premier Pro, I strongly encourage people to open their minds to the new approach to editing and give FCPX a whirl.  Recently, I had to go back and edit something that I did a couple of years ago in PP.  The contrast with FCPX was huge; by comparison PP is so cumbersome and unintuitive.  

 

Maybe the guys who make Hollywood blockbusters need something more than FCPX, maybe not. But there's nothing that an independent filmmaker lacks from the FCPX / Motion bundle.  And 10.1 has just added a whole new layer of icing to the cake.

 

If you spent a few hours with Ripple training to get quickly up the learning curve: http://www.rippletra...rd-edition.html within a few hours you'd be wondering why you ever bothered battling the old-style NLEs.  Believe me.

 

Regards

Peter 



#14 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:41 PM

 

An older Mac Pro with dual GPU is pretty much rendering as fast as a MacTube Pro for many production applications. 

 

Can you make any suggestions about adding dual GPU to MacPro.  I use the 2010 2 x 2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon / ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024MB Mac Pro with SSDs for both the OS/App disk and the WIP video library.  How do I add dual GPUs to give it more grunt to deal with 4K video?

 

Regards

Peter



#15 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 24 January 2014 - 09:18 PM

Pete, I tend not to care about rants and raves of any products.  Evaluate in a logical fashion for an individual's needs is the best way to see if a product works for each person/suite.  Sure most people don't have the time to do that, so they glean from forums like this one.

 

There may be several other contributing mitigating reasons why it was onerous.  You're accustomed to the FCX GUI now and relearning PP (which, btw, can personalize to FCP7 GUI) which I assume you never really learnt fully, was always going to be difficult.  Then there is the hardware issue.  Your GPU isn't CUDA/OPENCL accelerated in PP, so it's more processor intensive and slower.  I also advocate not throwing out the old baby with the bath water when there's a new baby around. :)

 

As for upgrades,  I'm always cautious in recommending them as it's really subjective, based on needs vs value. I believe OWC still sells their Mac Pro Tower processor upgrades.  They work great vs having to upgrade to a Mactube Pro and a thunderbolt PCIe chassis. Plus 128GB of RAM does make large file in PS so much nice to work with.

 

For GPU, vendors like Macvidcards on Ebay sells "flashed" PC cards like the AMD 7970 which is the closest thing to the D3/5/700 used on a Mactube.  Since you only use FCX, the AMD 7970 is probably best for you.  I use CUDAcentric apps like Resolve and Adobe CC,so Nvidia works better for me.  Note higher end GPUs are pretty expensive but does extend the use of your MP by a couple of years at least.

4k is tough at full quality RAW native, though.  That's why Red has Red Rocket and Aja has Corvid. The debayering, resolution etc are really demanding.  However, as mentioned, you can make do with lower quality viewing. What 4k camera you got now?


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#16 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 25 January 2014 - 05:59 PM

What 4k camera you got now?

 

Waiting to see what happens at NAB...



#17 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 26 January 2014 - 07:20 AM

I should add that FCX does stuff very quickly in ProRes, something other NLEs do not do as well because well, ProRes is Apple's baby and internally optimized for speed.  If one works with ProRes files exclusively (like the BM cameras), there is very compelling advantages to using FCX, especially if one can do all the post work within FCX (color correction etc).


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#18 peterbkk

peterbkk

    Great Hammerhead

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Singapore
  • Interests:Scuba Diving, Photographry Underwater Video.

Posted 26 January 2014 - 07:11 PM

I think that the main strength of FCPX is the paradigm shift from traditional NLEs around the "magnetic storyline" concept. Yesterday I went from hours of footage to a 30 minute first-cut storyline in a couple of hours. The ability to skim, select, insert real fast makes what used to be drudgery, now a pleasure. Add-on features like the intuitive "auditioning" concept to quickly compare the impact of alternative clips without having to play with timeline patch panels is also great. Everything just seems easier and faster in FCPX...

#19 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 26 January 2014 - 10:50 PM

I think the smartest aspect of the architecture is the FX-Plug under a Motion Template, which reduces the need for programming skills and thus there has been a great flow of low cost Motion templates/effects for FCX that isn't available on other platforms.
However, as Pete has discovered, FCX has been optimized for the latest Macs.  His 2010 MPT would lose to an 2013 iMac on most everything using FCX.  And being Mac only, the choices of GPU and processor upgrades are virtually non-existent officially from Apple.


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.


#20 Drew

Drew

    The Controller

  • Video Expert
  • 10645 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:GPS is not reliable in South East Asian seas

Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:12 AM

Of course, 10.1.1 is out now with the fixes for a few of the problems in 10.1.


Drew
Moderator
"Journalism is what someone else does not want printed, everything else is public relations."

"I was born not knowing, and have only had a little time to change that here and there.