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BMPCC underwater filming setting


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#1 edmond320

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:16 PM

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#2 edmond320

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:33 PM

Hi dear all,

I am a newbie to film ProRes or DNG raw file and I need you guys advice.

As I am not a video profession, I have limited knowledge on those file specification and advantages.

As more and more people like me will get their BMPCC housing from varies housing manufacturer, I hope you all can kindly share your experience how to set your BMPCC, especially focus on underwater filming.

Like most of you, my gears are:

BMPCC with Ninja 2 field recorder

Lens: for wide angle Panasonic 8mm, 7-14mm

          for Macro : Olympus 60mm

I haven't get a chance to bring my gear into water, so I haven't test the buoyancy of the whole set. I might need to use different float arm for best float.

 

regarding my questions,

1. ProRes or Raw, which type you prefer ? Do I really need to film raw to get the most out of BMPCC advantage?

 

2. What framerate setting for BMPCC you prefer ? 

 

3. White balance underwater setting, under ambient light condition, and under video light condition?

 

4. With the around 2.88 crop factors of BMPCC, for wide angle filming, do your prefer 8mm fisheye or 7-14 ?

 

Thank you very much in advance and wish you all have a great time with BMPCC underwater.

 

Cheers

Edmond


Edited by edmond320, 21 February 2014 - 10:26 PM.


#3 thetrickster

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:35 AM

Hi Edmond!

 

my questions,

1. ProRes or Raw, which type you prefer ? Do I really need to film raw to get the most out of BMPCC advantage?

 

2. What framerate setting for BMPCC you prefer ? 

 

3. White balance underwater setting, under ambient light condition, and under video light condition?

 

4. With the around 2.88 crop factors of BMPCC, for wide angle filming, do your prefer 8mm fisheye or 7-14 ?

 

1. ProRes isn't a RAW format, its a highly 'uncompressed' format developed by Apple - the best thing about this, is that you can import straight into FCPX and there is no transcode to do. However it doesn't have as much 'give' when you come to post processing - you have baked in your WB/Sharpness/Contrast etc etc. If you need to do a lot of post processing - I would look at DNG. Be careful though, editing RAW video - involves a lot more time and effort - and if you not doing this for a living (and getting paid for it) then you might decide just to shoot straight to ProRes.

 

2. Framerate - I would use 29.97 or 23.98. 30p and 24p are for matching to existing film stock (see below from a Canon Manual)

 

 

For conventional digital video recording at “24P”, users normally want to actually be shooting
at 23.976 fps. However, for video recording which must be precisely tied to existing 24.00 fps film footage, there’s a completely separate fps setting.
It cannot be over-emphasized — the 24.00P setting is NOT for general-purpose video
recording. DO NOT set 24.00P unless you deliberately intend to match video files with existing film footage which was shot at 24 fps in a film camera, or unless postproduction staff have specifically instructed camera operators to use this setting instead of 23.976P.

 

3. White Balance - this all depends on if you go DNG or ProRes.

 

If you chose to shoot in DNG, the white balance you tell the camera, won't mean a thing, as you can alter in post. (Just like a RAW DSLR file)

 

If you chose to shoot in ProRes - and to get the best possible quality - you will need to nail the WB while shooting (either by grey card - look at the the Amphibico (here), using something white - or by precisely matching the WB to the temp of your lights (which look like Aquavolts (which are around 7000K)

 

4. I have both the 8mm and the 7-14mm - Personally for video, the 7-14mm is a better lens due to it being a rectilinear lens - so wrecks stay 'straight'

 

The nauticam housings aren't that heavy in the water (not sure on your Aquavolts) - but you might have a little too much buoyancy there...

 

and what tripod is that?

 

Looking forward to seeing your videos!

 

Rich


Edited by thetrickster, 22 February 2014 - 01:39 AM.

Regards, Richard

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#4 carlescas

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:24 AM

If you chose to shoot in ProRes - and to get the best possible quality - you will need to nail the WB while shooting (either by grey card - look at the the Amphibico (here), using something white

 

 
Hi all,
About the white balance in PRORES, how can you use the Amphibico white balance card if you have not a white balance push button in the camera? You only have different white balance valors (3500, 4500,...) but you can not fix it pushing a button like a normal video camera.


#5 thetrickster

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:54 AM

 

About the white balance in PRORES, how can you use the Amphibico white balance card if you have not a white balance push button in the camera? You only have different white balance valors (3500, 4500,...) but you can not fix it pushing a button like a normal video camera.

 

 

Well that sorts of makes you shoot in RAW/DNG then - if you can't custom white balance a BMPCC (I thought you could)


Regards, Richard

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#6 carlescas

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:33 AM

No, is not posible in the Black magic camera to fix a manual white blance, only can choose between the selected Temp that the menu offer you, and underwater I think this is a BIG PROBLEM (if you don´t want to shoot in RAW/DNG).
Another solution for the WB underwater?


#7 edmond320

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:28 AM

Hi trickster, thank you very much for your professional advice. 

Can I follow with some more questions?

1.While we use the video housing with flip red filter in blue water or magenta filter in green water, the purpose is to bring up or enhance the missing colour during underwater filming.

As we are now using different kind of housing , we don't have an option to do that, except using magic filter in some lens.

Does it matter for the flip red filter anymore if we now use BMPCC ? Or instead we just go straight to post correction with FCPX ?

 

2. I will check my gear buoyancy later.

 

3. Regarding the tripod you asked, I have been using such a four leg platform for few years, that I have to DIY myself. Especially good for filming garden eel,just put it in the sand bottom, swim away, the eel come out, you get a nice shoot of them or good at filming your ownself !

And the two rear leg will give you a better panning movement,like the handle of the video head that we use on topside, better than just using the handle IMHO. So again this time, I made one the Nauticam housing, just US$4, of course just the base, not including the ball and leg.

 

Thanks again for your advice.

 

Cheer

Edmond



#8 thetrickster

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:40 AM

It appears discussing the White Balance limitations with carlescas. You have very limited movement in regards to changing it. I incorrectly assumed the BMPCC has Custom WB - which it does not. So you are limited to the preset Kelvin values.

 

Yes you can modify the 7-14mm lens to take the 8mm back filter holder (part number: VXQ1911) - or steal it from your 8mm :)

 

But then you relying on the AutoWB to level this out - add your lights and you might get some freaky results.

 

My honest opinion...given the info from Carlescas - is the only option for filming with the BMPCC underwater is to use the DNG Raw format - that way you can get the perfect WB in post, but means a bit more work from you in post.

 

Thanks re the tripod - I'm on the look out for the XIT404 - looks similar yours!! :D


Regards, Richard

---

GH4, Ninja2, 8mm, 7-14mm, 12-35mm, 14-42mm PZ, 60mm - all in a Nauticam wrapping, plus a couple of Keldan Video 8M CRI Lights

---


#9 carlescas

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:03 PM

I am agree with you, the only option for obtain a correct WB with any bmcc is the RAW. 
Looking this, I will not buy it for my underwater video because RAW need to much space in disc.


#10 EspenRekdal

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:02 PM

Prores 422 gives you quite a lot of leeway in post so unless you're really pushing dark and murky stuff you might be able to fix it in post. This could be nice with a camera that eats a 64GB card in 20 min when shooting raw. 

If you have photoshop and you are used to using camera raw with photos, open your prores file in photoshop. Convert it to a smart object and use the camera raw filter to adjust tint and color temperature. See if that doesn't set you close enough, it has for me when I've been sloppy with WB.

 

The question is if it actually would be less time consuming to just use raw in resolve and output to prores after getting the WB right. Then delete the raw folders.

 

Cheers,

E.


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#11 edmond320

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:07 PM

Hi E.,

Thank you very much for your advice.

This is what I am thinking.If the visibility is good, I will use ProRes format. If not, then I will shoot raw.

Then, I can use resolve lite to grade the clip and output to FCPX for editing.

 

Cheers

Edmond



#12 edmond320

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:04 PM

Hi,

I have come across this link:

http://filmireland.n...-cinema-camera/

While mentioning about shutter angle,  "optimal shutter angle is 172.8."

and regarding ISO, "optimal being 800 ASA"

Anyone set their BMPCC with the same setting for underwater filming ??

 

As BMPCC do not offer one touch white balance, in that case, what colour temperature you guys prefer and more forgiving for post correction with FCPX.

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers

Edmond



#13 edmond320

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:25 PM

Regarding different SD card recording time without drop frame , you may find this link useful:

http://diffractedmed...a-sd-cards.html



#14 EspenRekdal

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 12:37 AM

Hi Edmond, 

 

Its most beneficial to use a shutter angle around 180 degrees for best looking motion blur. If you shoot in a 50Hz environment then its good to use 172 because that will reduce flicker around artificial light. This has no consequence underwater where you would use a dc light source. 

 

Regarding kelvin I'd use a warm rather than cold setting so that you have some information in the red channel to work with when shooting without lights in prores (I recommend RAW for best results). That said I'd recommend you use a K that corresponds to your lights when using them and shoot raw when you are shooting without lights.  

 

I shoot raw for WA and prores for macro with lights. I use a daylight setting for my kelvin when shooting prores. 

 

Regarding the cards. There is still just one out there that supports RAW recording so the choice is kind of limited INMO.

 

Happy shooting,

E.


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#15 Ferg42

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:56 AM

Hi Edmond, 

 

Its most beneficial to use a shutter angle around 180 degrees for best looking motion blur. If you shoot in a 50Hz environment then its good to use 172 because that will reduce flicker around artificial light. This has no consequence underwater where you would use a dc light source. 

 

Regarding kelvin I'd use a warm rather than cold setting so that you have some information in the red channel to work with when shooting without lights in prores (I recommend RAW for best results). That said I'd recommend you use a K that corresponds to your lights when using them and shoot raw when you are shooting without lights.  

 

I shoot raw for WA and prores for macro with lights. I use a daylight setting for my kelvin when shooting prores. 

 

Regarding the cards. There is still just one out there that supports RAW recording so the choice is kind of limited INMO.

 

Happy shooting,

E.

Strangely enough, I have experienced flickering issues with powerful LED lights underwater, which could be corrected with an adjustment to shutterspeed. I experienced them at 1/50th sec with mangrove lights. It's not really a problem so long as you notice it underwater and correct it!


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#16 EspenRekdal

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:37 AM

Strangely enough, I have experienced flickering issues with powerful LED lights underwater, which could be corrected with an adjustment to shutterspeed. I experienced them at 1/50th sec with mangrove lights. It's not really a problem so long as you notice it underwater and correct it!

 

Thanks for the info! I have never had this happen to me. 


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#17 edmond320

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:34 PM

Hi E.

Thank you very much for your super nice advice !! 

 

Cheers 

Edmond



#18 Stuart Keasley

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:11 PM

Hi Edmond, 
 
Its most beneficial to use a shutter angle around 180 degrees for best looking motion blur. If you shoot in a 50Hz environment then its good to use 172 because that will reduce flicker around artificial light. This has no consequence underwater where you would use a dc light source. 
 

The 172.8 shutter angle only becomes necessary if you're shooting at 24p, at 25p 180 degree is fine (both settings result in 1/50th second shutter speed)

Edited by bottlefish, 21 March 2014 - 11:14 PM.

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#19 SimonSpear

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 02:01 PM

I'm going to be using the BMPCC next week and I don't want to promise but I should have time to both finish off my BMCC review and add this one too.  



#20 edmond320

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:23 AM

Hi Simon,

Looking forward to your review !!

Thanks in advance.

 

Edmond